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Re: Building Soil [Re: garymc] #8118751
04/10/24 07:56 AM
04/10/24 07:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,205
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,205
Minnesota
Originally Posted by garymc
When I first started food plots, I had a log landing that was the perfect food plot location. It was completely void of vegetation with a fair bit of clay. I started in late May with buckwheat, lime, and fertilizer. It grew but was not a complete success yet not a failure either. In late august I tilled it under and planted a wheat/rye mix along with more lime and fertilizer it turned into a pretty decent fall/winter plot. The following May I tilled the wheat/rye under and planted buckwheat again. There was a definite difference in the second buckwheat plot. In late august I planted a wheat/rye mix along with Durana clover. It grew well the deer liked it. The next spring I mowed the wheat/rye as soon as it started to seed and was left with a nice clover plot.
The buckwheat, wheat, and rye will pretty much grow on a rock, but as conditions get better it grows better

Interesting


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8118791
04/10/24 09:15 AM
04/10/24 09:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,872
Greene County,Virginia
R
run Offline
trapper
run  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,872
Greene County,Virginia
I love lime. Just use whatever lime is readily available close to home. Just adding my worthless 2 cents to the pile.


wanna be goat farmer.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8118796
04/10/24 09:22 AM
04/10/24 09:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,537
Wi.
D
Diggerman Offline
trapper
Diggerman  Offline
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D

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,537
Wi.
Gypsum, Its magic!

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8118846
04/10/24 10:48 AM
04/10/24 10:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 243
Georgia
G
GaTurkeyHunter Offline
trapper
GaTurkeyHunter  Offline
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G

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 243
Georgia
I have completely renewed my pasture and garden.

When I moved to my current place ten years ago, the pastures were grown up almost to my head. It was full of briars, small trees, broomstraw, dogfennel, etc.

I bushhogged the entire piece and had the property limed. I contacted tree servers and took all the woodchips i could get. I let those chips compost for a year or two and began spreading them around thick in rough areas of the property.

I raised chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, etc. in mobile coops and allowed them to work and fertilize the ground. The birds helped out a ton and I could see results quickly.

I also plant crimson clover every fall and don't mow anything until after it has seeded out and died back. I also plant daikon/tillage radish.

I have seen where folks will bring it round bales of hay and lay that thick over rough areas, but my woodchips are free and have worked wonders.

Good luck!



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Re: Building Soil [Re: GaTurkeyHunter] #8118893
04/10/24 12:09 PM
04/10/24 12:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,588
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,588
MN
Originally Posted by GaTurkeyHunter
I have completely renewed my pasture and garden.

When I moved to my current place ten years ago, the pastures were grown up almost to my head. It was full of briars, small trees, broomstraw, dogfennel, etc.

I bushhogged the entire piece and had the property limed. I contacted tree servers and took all the woodchips i could get. I let those chips compost for a year or two and began spreading them around thick in rough areas of the property.

I raised chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, etc. in mobile coops and allowed them to work and fertilize the ground. The birds helped out a ton and I could see results quickly.

I also plant crimson clover every fall and don't mow anything until after it has seeded out and died back. I also plant daikon/tillage radish.

I have seen where folks will bring it round bales of hay and lay that thick over rough areas, but my woodchips are free and have worked wonders.

Good luck!


This is more less what I'm doing now to my property. The wood chips really only work if you have Nitrogen, thats where your chickens really paid off. Currently Chicken manure is worth around $50 a Ton and a Ton goes a long ways. If you have any poultry farmers in the area that sell manure that would be my first stop after the soil test.

If you put wood chips down without added Nitrogen be prepared for the chips to lock most of your available Nitrogen up until they decompose. I'm going to mix chips with manure, let that compost then spread it.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Donnersurvivor] #8118906
04/10/24 12:34 PM
04/10/24 12:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,374
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
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bblwi  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,374
East-Central Wisconsin
Do you have a farmer near you with stall barn or bed pack manure. If so and he would be willing to sell it and apply it I would put say 20 to 30 tons per acre on this spring or summer and work it in. If you don't have equipment that can work in that much put less on. You will build OM faster that way and you will get NP and K as well. During the summer the bugs, worms and bacteria will break up the OM when the soil is warm. You can then start with any and all of the crops mentioned. They all build OM but some better than others but I nice load of manure is a good way to kick start your program. Manure is an interesting substance, it losens clay and helps bind sand, you want high levels of OM in your soils as it holds nutrients and also helps hold water.

Bryce

Last edited by bblwi; 04/10/24 04:21 PM.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8119345
04/11/24 07:52 AM
04/11/24 07:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 243
Georgia
G
GaTurkeyHunter Offline
trapper
GaTurkeyHunter  Offline
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G

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 243
Georgia
I would be weary of using cow/horse manure. I've heard that a lot of the hay that the animals feed on was treated with GrazeOn and other chemicals during the growth cycle. I guess the chemical doesn't cause the animal issues, but it is passed to the manure and when that is spread to gardens or other areas where broadleafs grow, they will die.



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Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8119372
04/11/24 08:51 AM
04/11/24 08:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 3,818
Wisconsin
G
Guss Offline
trapper
Guss  Offline
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G

Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 3,818
Wisconsin
And don't spread cow poop on the garden you get weeds. Best to use horse.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Guss] #8119409
04/11/24 09:52 AM
04/11/24 09:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,374
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
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B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,374
East-Central Wisconsin
Farmers in WI raise lot of broadleaf plants and spread lots of manure with no broadleaf plant deaths. Yes manure has weeds but there are more weedseeds laying in the foodplot area already so the extras are not going to be a major factor. Also plants like winter rye etc. are weed retardent plants. If manure is not available that is fine, just anticipate building OM with plants with 2-4 ton of dry matter per crop will take a long, long time to raise if OM is low.
Also if you plant several crops per year to have divsersity and do tillage, tillage breaks down OM faster and you lose more than if you can no-till.
I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce

Re: Building Soil [Re: bblwi] #8120696
04/13/24 12:37 AM
04/13/24 12:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,111
WI - Wisconsin
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AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,111
WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted by bblwi

I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce

Not much clay here

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8120723
04/13/24 05:21 AM
04/13/24 05:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,612
NH
T
trapNH Offline
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trapNH  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,612
NH
Guss, you got tht backwards.

Re: Building Soil [Re: bblwi] #8122167
04/15/24 11:37 AM
04/15/24 11:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,872
Greene County,Virginia
R
run Offline
trapper
run  Offline
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R

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,872
Greene County,Virginia
Originally Posted by bblwi
Farmers in WI raise lot of broadleaf plants and spread lots of manure with no broadleaf plant deaths. Yes manure has weeds but there are more weedseeds laying in the foodplot area already so the extras are not going to be a major factor. Also plants like winter rye etc. are weed retardent plants. If manure is not available that is fine, just anticipate building OM with plants with 2-4 ton of dry matter per crop will take a long, long time to raise if OM is low.
Also if you plant several crops per year to have divsersity and do tillage, tillage breaks down OM faster and you lose more than if you can no-till.
I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce

Thank you for the explanation, Bryce!

Last edited by run; 04/15/24 11:37 AM.

wanna be goat farmer.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8122188
04/15/24 12:17 PM
04/15/24 12:17 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 927
NW Oklahoma
O
Okie Farmer Offline
trapper
Okie Farmer  Offline
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O

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 927
NW Oklahoma
Hybrid sorghum Sudan will make a lot of organic material especially if you can mow it a couple of times during the summer.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8122230
04/15/24 01:24 PM
04/15/24 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,015
MD
D
DaveP Offline
trapper
DaveP  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,015
MD
LOL, JUST finished spreading manure, THICK.

Have terrible soil here, been working on it 30 years.

Best thing I ever did was hogs. Moved pen a little every other year.
Went from 1" of soil to 6-10".

At least made some decent garden patches.

Below is a link to the aptly named Extreme Composting thread.
Watched this guy get going in real.time, it's insane.
100s of tons. Per year....

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/extreme-composting.342651/

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8122238
04/15/24 01:31 PM
04/15/24 01:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,286
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,286
Oregon
There is another neat twist to build up garden soil organic matter content and kill pathogens at the same time. It is accomplished by adding a whopping 12" or more of chopped green manure and some nitrogen working it in to the ground, watering and then covering with a thin layer of clear polyplastic sheeting tightly. The soil microbes quickly use up all the oxygen creating an anaerobic condition in the top 8-10" of soil. Over the course of several weeks soil borne pathogens (that may have been a burr under your saddle for years) are reduced to near zero since they cannot survive without oxygen.

You will be amazed at how well all your garden veggies and fruits do after this treatment.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Building Soil [Re: beaverpeeler] #8122310
04/15/24 03:58 PM
04/15/24 03:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,015
MD
D
DaveP Offline
trapper
DaveP  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,015
MD
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
There is another neat twist to build up garden soil organic matter content and kill pathogens at the same time. It is accomplished by adding a whopping 12" or more of chopped green manure and some nitrogen working it in to the ground, watering and then covering with a thin layer of clear polyplastic sheeting tightly. The soil microbes quickly use up all the oxygen creating an anaerobic condition in the top 8-10" of soil. Over the course of several weeks soil borne pathogens (that may have been a burr under your saddle for years) are reduced to near zero since they cannot survive without oxygen.

You will be amazed at how well all your garden veggies and fruits do after this treatment.




I might have to.look.into this, thanks

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