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Building Soil

Posted By: Eagleye

Building Soil - 10/31/23 11:41 AM

Planning some spring food plots. I would be interested to hear on plantings that help build the highest level of organic matter. Based on WIMarshRat’s previous posts on Buckwheat- that’s on my list, it seems like a good choice. I understand it may take several years to impact the soil substrate but I’m interested in starting. Hoping Bryce and others share their thoughts. Are there other varieties that should be considered to enhance feed the fields and not the deer?
Posted By: garymc

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 12:58 PM

When I first started food plots, I had a log landing that was the perfect food plot location. It was completely void of vegetation with a fair bit of clay. I started in late May with buckwheat, lime, and fertilizer. It grew but was not a complete success yet not a failure either. In late august I tilled it under and planted a wheat/rye mix along with more lime and fertilizer it turned into a pretty decent fall/winter plot. The following May I tilled the wheat/rye under and planted buckwheat again. There was a definite difference in the second buckwheat plot. In late august I planted a wheat/rye mix along with Durana clover. It grew well the deer liked it. The next spring I mowed the wheat/rye as soon as it started to seed and was left with a nice clover plot.
The buckwheat, wheat, and rye will pretty much grow on a rock, but as conditions get better it grows better
Posted By: Eagleye

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 01:10 PM

Gary- thanks this is exactly the same application, I have two landing areas that are marginal and I need to improve. With the Buckwheat can I plant it twice in one growing season? My thought process is to terminate it before it seeds out.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 01:23 PM

My grandparents grew an organic truck garden in sand in the UP so it showed me with the right soil mixture you can grow about anything. I went with the soil testing route to cut the learning curve by finding the right balance sooner.
Posted By: garymc

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 01:24 PM

I guess you could try for two crops if you crowded up against your last frost date in the spring and the soil temp was up. Plant then as it went to flower terminate and plant again. It might run you close in getting a fall plot like wheat/rye established. The buckwheat won’t tolerate a frost whereas the wheat/rye would carry through winter

When I let the buckwheat go to seed I ended up with a small volunteer crop of buckwheat in my wheat/rye but the volunteers would die with the frost.

My rehabilitated log landing is one of my most productive plots in terms of growth now.

I so miss the days of $0.30 a pound buckwheat and don’t plant it as much now
Posted By: KB64

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 01:31 PM

First step is to get a complete soil test. You're looking for more than just pH and N,P & K. Your soil's CEC will tell you what you have to work with and how to proceed. Then your Base Saturation % will tell you where you stand on fertility. CEC < 10 you have a really sandy soil and will need to add smaller amounts of fertilizer more frequently. CEC> 20 and you're getting onto clay soils where your Calcium base saturation is going to be important. You want calcium >60% and up to 80%. K should be between 4-7%.

Organic matter increases are greatly enhanced by limiting tillage and planting diverse mixes that produce a lot of root mass. Daikon radish, cereal rye and annual clovers are a good fall mix. Vetch is another good additive. Buckwheat is good because it's a short lived annual that can be double cropped. You can mix in grasses like millet or a forage sorghum like Sudan-Sorghum. A lot of people are big into using a crimper to terminate these crops and planting into the residue. Timing is critical, you have to time it right to get it to crimp or it will stand back up with crops like rye. I think a better option is a flail mower that will chop the residue into smaller pieces and not wind row like a rotary cutter.

Be aware that planting into a heavy mat of residue from the previous crop is going to pull a lot of nitrogen out of the system as it breaks down. This is where a good foliar fertilizer program will help the crop overcome this nitrogen sink.
Posted By: sportsman94

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 01:55 PM

As KB said, diversity is important. Make or buy a mix that includes at a minimum a broadleaf, a grass, and a legume. Something with different heights as well. From what I understand running livestock through it is best case scenario, but then that competes with the desire to do it for wildlife.

All this depends on your deer density though. I cant get anything to grow in the warm season on almost 2.5 acres besides sorghum or millet that the deer dont fool with.
Posted By: Eagleye

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 02:39 PM

These two areas are new and soil sampling is on the horizon- possibly this week. In my other kill plots my main focus has been establishing proper pH levels first but I have better soil conditions in those locations.
Posted By: BigBob

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 02:53 PM

Pick your spot and get the soil PH checked. Most wood soil is very acid, Ag Lime and or wood ash will cure that.
Posted By: beaverpeeler

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 03:24 PM

Already sone good info here. To increase organic matter content as quickly as possible you need to grow a lot of biomass. Buckwheat can be a good summer cover crop but I think there are others that actually produce more biomass during the same time period. Sudan grass being one to look at. I would look at mixing species like crimson clover, phacelia and others. Those also help the pollinizers in your area.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 06:17 PM

I loaded the garden lime I had in my shed today to go to MO soon I noticed it had calcium and magnesium ratios in it was that added or just the normal blend when you have any lime? The stuff is the consistency of talc powder almost like dust.


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Eagleye

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 06:41 PM

Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?
Posted By: KB64

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Eagleye
Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?


Yes, dolomitic lime contains magnesium. The 22 and 12% are pretty typical. One thing to remember, Mg raises pH at 1.6 times what calcium does. Calcium improves drainage where magnesium slows permeability. So if you have a sandy soil you want a base saturation Mg around 15-20% and Ca around 60-65%. In heavy clay you want the calcium 65% and higher with Mg around 10-12%.
Posted By: TreedaBlackdog

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 07:05 PM

Highest levels of organic building materials are those that produce the most carbon. Tonnage of material grown on top. For example corn residue is much more than soybean residue. For building carbon - plants that develop the most on top of soil build up the soil most when allowed to decompose as they also have better root systems. Organic matter can be increased by also bringing in carbon like compost, wood chips, straw, manures etc......growing your own carbon takes time to increase organic matter but it can be done. Goal should be to never have bare soil - of course every tillage pass etc you do also speeds up carbon breakdown and loss. Highest level of organic matter are found in systems closely patterning after native diverse prairies with livestock incorporated.
While in North Dakota the NRCS and producers were examining this intensively and without livestock the soil health would kind of plateau - livestock brought in healthy bacterias and organisms that aided in the ability to break down the carbon and increase organic matters quicker.
Posted By: Eagleye

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 07:17 PM

I’m going to hit my wife up for a herd of Buffalo grin
Posted By: JoMiBru

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 07:47 PM

Great information here. As a farmer and deer hunter, some good topics have already been nailed by Gary, treed, and KB.

Soil test is very important, and follow the recommendations. I like a good mix for both soil health and a good food plot. You’ll want a legume , a brassica, and a cereal grain. The legume will fix nitrogen in the soil. The brassica will send a tap root to help with compaction. The cereal grain will provide grazing and take pressure off the legume until they establish.

Legumes- Clover, alfalfa, peas, beans
Brassica- radish, turnip, rape, kale
Cereal grains- wheat, buckwheat, Oats, rye

In your application, I would use buckwheat, rape ( dwarf Essex) , and frosty Berseem Clover. Mix some daikon radish in there if compaction is a big issue, that’s got a big tap root.

John
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Eagleye
Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?



Yes it says lawn and garden lime on the bags but contains magnesium I have 200 pounds of it.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Building Soil - 10/31/23 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Eagleye
Gary- thanks this is exactly the same application, I have two landing areas that are marginal and I need to improve. With the Buckwheat can I plant it twice in one growing season? My thought process is to terminate it before it seeds out.


I plant buckwheat for my bees, I stager plant it every two weeks or so I till another section and plant again. I get blooms the entire Darth that way.

Deer hit it , infact my neibors wife asked her husband if I had mowed it off the deer did such a good job on it that time. I had a place with old tractor ruts I tilled a bunch an got it eveled out. I didn't want the bare dirt so planted that spot with buckwheat. It flowers in about 6 weeks.

My fields are generally healthy so didn't notice improvements ther but building organic material is always a plus.
Posted By: AJE

Re: Building Soil - 04/09/24 03:46 AM

I bought this pH tester the other day at Ace. I'm not sure how good it is. They had a moisture meter I thought about buying too but it looked pretty poor quality.

[Linked Image]

With planting season approaching, it might be nice to know soil temperatures too
Posted By: pintail_drake04

Re: Building Soil - 04/10/24 11:52 AM

I'm a big fan of cover crops. I don't like to keep land fallow. I alternate between brassicas, rye, and clover. The literal tonnage produced in an "off season" between plantings can be astounding. This in addition to the application of compost has been a huge help.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Building Soil - 04/10/24 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by garymc
When I first started food plots, I had a log landing that was the perfect food plot location. It was completely void of vegetation with a fair bit of clay. I started in late May with buckwheat, lime, and fertilizer. It grew but was not a complete success yet not a failure either. In late august I tilled it under and planted a wheat/rye mix along with more lime and fertilizer it turned into a pretty decent fall/winter plot. The following May I tilled the wheat/rye under and planted buckwheat again. There was a definite difference in the second buckwheat plot. In late august I planted a wheat/rye mix along with Durana clover. It grew well the deer liked it. The next spring I mowed the wheat/rye as soon as it started to seed and was left with a nice clover plot.
The buckwheat, wheat, and rye will pretty much grow on a rock, but as conditions get better it grows better

Interesting
Posted By: run

Re: Building Soil - 04/10/24 01:15 PM

I love lime. Just use whatever lime is readily available close to home. Just adding my worthless 2 cents to the pile.
Posted By: Diggerman

Re: Building Soil - 04/10/24 01:22 PM

Gypsum, Its magic!
Posted By: GaTurkeyHunter

Re: Building Soil - 04/10/24 02:48 PM

I have completely renewed my pasture and garden.

When I moved to my current place ten years ago, the pastures were grown up almost to my head. It was full of briars, small trees, broomstraw, dogfennel, etc.

I bushhogged the entire piece and had the property limed. I contacted tree servers and took all the woodchips i could get. I let those chips compost for a year or two and began spreading them around thick in rough areas of the property.

I raised chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, etc. in mobile coops and allowed them to work and fertilize the ground. The birds helped out a ton and I could see results quickly.

I also plant crimson clover every fall and don't mow anything until after it has seeded out and died back. I also plant daikon/tillage radish.

I have seen where folks will bring it round bales of hay and lay that thick over rough areas, but my woodchips are free and have worked wonders.

Good luck!
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Building Soil - 04/10/24 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by GaTurkeyHunter
I have completely renewed my pasture and garden.

When I moved to my current place ten years ago, the pastures were grown up almost to my head. It was full of briars, small trees, broomstraw, dogfennel, etc.

I bushhogged the entire piece and had the property limed. I contacted tree servers and took all the woodchips i could get. I let those chips compost for a year or two and began spreading them around thick in rough areas of the property.

I raised chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, etc. in mobile coops and allowed them to work and fertilize the ground. The birds helped out a ton and I could see results quickly.

I also plant crimson clover every fall and don't mow anything until after it has seeded out and died back. I also plant daikon/tillage radish.

I have seen where folks will bring it round bales of hay and lay that thick over rough areas, but my woodchips are free and have worked wonders.

Good luck!


This is more less what I'm doing now to my property. The wood chips really only work if you have Nitrogen, thats where your chickens really paid off. Currently Chicken manure is worth around $50 a Ton and a Ton goes a long ways. If you have any poultry farmers in the area that sell manure that would be my first stop after the soil test.

If you put wood chips down without added Nitrogen be prepared for the chips to lock most of your available Nitrogen up until they decompose. I'm going to mix chips with manure, let that compost then spread it.
Posted By: bblwi

Re: Building Soil - 04/10/24 04:34 PM

Do you have a farmer near you with stall barn or bed pack manure. If so and he would be willing to sell it and apply it I would put say 20 to 30 tons per acre on this spring or summer and work it in. If you don't have equipment that can work in that much put less on. You will build OM faster that way and you will get NP and K as well. During the summer the bugs, worms and bacteria will break up the OM when the soil is warm. You can then start with any and all of the crops mentioned. They all build OM but some better than others but I nice load of manure is a good way to kick start your program. Manure is an interesting substance, it losens clay and helps bind sand, you want high levels of OM in your soils as it holds nutrients and also helps hold water.

Bryce
Posted By: GaTurkeyHunter

Re: Building Soil - 04/11/24 11:52 AM

I would be weary of using cow/horse manure. I've heard that a lot of the hay that the animals feed on was treated with GrazeOn and other chemicals during the growth cycle. I guess the chemical doesn't cause the animal issues, but it is passed to the manure and when that is spread to gardens or other areas where broadleafs grow, they will die.
Posted By: Guss

Re: Building Soil - 04/11/24 12:51 PM

And don't spread cow poop on the garden you get weeds. Best to use horse.
Posted By: bblwi

Re: Building Soil - 04/11/24 01:52 PM

Farmers in WI raise lot of broadleaf plants and spread lots of manure with no broadleaf plant deaths. Yes manure has weeds but there are more weedseeds laying in the foodplot area already so the extras are not going to be a major factor. Also plants like winter rye etc. are weed retardent plants. If manure is not available that is fine, just anticipate building OM with plants with 2-4 ton of dry matter per crop will take a long, long time to raise if OM is low.
Also if you plant several crops per year to have divsersity and do tillage, tillage breaks down OM faster and you lose more than if you can no-till.
I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce
Posted By: AJE

Re: Building Soil - 04/13/24 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by bblwi

I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce

Not much clay here
Posted By: trapNH

Re: Building Soil - 04/13/24 09:21 AM

Guss, you got tht backwards.
Posted By: run

Re: Building Soil - 04/15/24 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by bblwi
Farmers in WI raise lot of broadleaf plants and spread lots of manure with no broadleaf plant deaths. Yes manure has weeds but there are more weedseeds laying in the foodplot area already so the extras are not going to be a major factor. Also plants like winter rye etc. are weed retardent plants. If manure is not available that is fine, just anticipate building OM with plants with 2-4 ton of dry matter per crop will take a long, long time to raise if OM is low.
Also if you plant several crops per year to have divsersity and do tillage, tillage breaks down OM faster and you lose more than if you can no-till.
I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce

Thank you for the explanation, Bryce!
Posted By: Okie Farmer

Re: Building Soil - 04/15/24 04:17 PM

Hybrid sorghum Sudan will make a lot of organic material especially if you can mow it a couple of times during the summer.
Posted By: DaveP

Re: Building Soil - 04/15/24 05:24 PM

LOL, JUST finished spreading manure, THICK.

Have terrible soil here, been working on it 30 years.

Best thing I ever did was hogs. Moved pen a little every other year.
Went from 1" of soil to 6-10".

At least made some decent garden patches.

Below is a link to the aptly named Extreme Composting thread.
Watched this guy get going in real.time, it's insane.
100s of tons. Per year....

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/extreme-composting.342651/
Posted By: beaverpeeler

Re: Building Soil - 04/15/24 05:31 PM

There is another neat twist to build up garden soil organic matter content and kill pathogens at the same time. It is accomplished by adding a whopping 12" or more of chopped green manure and some nitrogen working it in to the ground, watering and then covering with a thin layer of clear polyplastic sheeting tightly. The soil microbes quickly use up all the oxygen creating an anaerobic condition in the top 8-10" of soil. Over the course of several weeks soil borne pathogens (that may have been a burr under your saddle for years) are reduced to near zero since they cannot survive without oxygen.

You will be amazed at how well all your garden veggies and fruits do after this treatment.
Posted By: DaveP

Re: Building Soil - 04/15/24 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
There is another neat twist to build up garden soil organic matter content and kill pathogens at the same time. It is accomplished by adding a whopping 12" or more of chopped green manure and some nitrogen working it in to the ground, watering and then covering with a thin layer of clear polyplastic sheeting tightly. The soil microbes quickly use up all the oxygen creating an anaerobic condition in the top 8-10" of soil. Over the course of several weeks soil borne pathogens (that may have been a burr under your saddle for years) are reduced to near zero since they cannot survive without oxygen.

You will be amazed at how well all your garden veggies and fruits do after this treatment.




I might have to.look.into this, thanks
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