In Matthew chapter 5 verse 17
What dous this verse mean?

The old testament is still legitimate. Some people tend to throw old testament out because it's obsolete or some other reason possibly. I prefer to call it the original testament. Maybe read Hebrews to get a more balanced view. Great question, I may not have answered it properly. But this is my worthless 2 cents.

Thank you,run.

I take it to mean that he came to fulfill what was written and that the old testament and laws are fulfilled. If you don't think that then I will say grab a dove and head off for a sin offering.

You also have to remember that the old testament was written for the jewish people not the gentiles a lot of faiths like to stir it together making it a great mystery and guess what you need someone to explain to stand and tell you how wrong you are.But think for just one sec, GOD is your father would he tell you something and then make it so hard you couldn't understand ? A little prayer and faith and there it is.

Yes rex,
Jesus fulfilled the law. He did it by living a perfect sinless life .
He also fulfilled most prophecy.
I would think that the final throne judgment has not yet been fulfilled.
Jesus is the final sacrifice. For all sin.

I agree with you again sir,
The new covenant is the complete work of God. Till the fulness of the Gentiles.
The faith of Christ and the faith in Chist is spiritual Israel.
That's why Jesus said it is finished.

The entire old testament points directly to and at Jesus. He fulfilled it and it's promise as for told. The law is still the law but he raised the bar on that. Under the old law you had to commit adultery to sin. Jesus raised that to if you have lust in your heart you have already sin.

Providence
I believe Jesus was correcting there misunderstanding of the law.
I believe in there heart of heart the men of the old testament knew when thy lusted that they where sinning.
The low never changed.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Hmm. I do not read the Bible ( have tried) but the verbiage lost me.

I don't go to church either. Haven't for 30plus years. My opinion is...., the vast majority of those that go to church do it for no other reason then to let others SEE they go to church.
One of my best friends can quote most every Bible verse yet goes every Sunday. Why?, why should he go and let someone try and " interpit" what he has already comprehended by reading the written word?

The 10 commandments are what we need to know and follow. Black n White.

Churches have become nothing much more then a social gathering when as soon as its over,, the " Flock" goes about their daily life while judging others after they contributed $$ to the " cause".

I don't need to know the History of the the Bible. I try to follow the 10 Commandments and feel God will sort it out in the end.
Don't care if I get a special place in Heaven. Am happy knowing I'll be the water boy when I get their.

I can comprehend
I was in the same place about ten years ago.

It's all about the blood; from Genesis to Revelation.

God killed the animals in Eden to cloth Adam and Eve after they sinned. This had to be a shock to both Adam and Eve cause they knew those animals and had at the time never seen killing IMO, at that time, they may have even been able to communicate and speak with the animals.

When God killed the animals in the garden to cloth Adam and Eve, he was teaching them a very, very, important lesson at the time IMO. That lesson was that only by the shedding of innocent blood, would they be covered for their sins. We are in the same predicament.

The entire Book of Exodus screams the Gospels. Jesus Christ is in every verse in Exodus if one looks. Only by His innocent blood are we covered from our sins. Its that simple.

I don't read it like that. I think when it says "Till the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.....that it means the Jewish people won't wake up to the facts of the Blood of Jesus UNTIL all gentiles get right. That means for us Christians, grab and scream at your buddies that are on the fenceline, cause Christ ain't coming back till they get on board.

I 100% disagree that faith in Christ is spiritual Israel. Jesus said it was finished because He was the sacrifice for all mankind; His blood was enough.

If we are the hands and feet of Christ, it would be rather difficult to organize a job for the body to do if the hand never meets with the feet.

You don't have to follow the levitical laws but Jesus quoted quite a few verses from the old testament. Plus Danny Clifton likes the story of Samson and King Solomon. Those are some of my favorite Bible characters as well. Sorry I didn't read all of the comments on this thread yet. Plus I have a friend who became a Christian because of the song of Solomon. Too many goodies in the old testament to say it's only for the Jews makes me very sad and I have to say I disagree.

Chancey
I don't want to miss quote you.
(All Gentiles get it right, that means for us Christions. )

Christions are of all peaple . There were 1000s of jews that were saved at Pentecost.
And there are peaple from every nation that are saved every day, Jew and Gentile.

Here is the word Gentile is Hebrew.
Are you saying all Gentiles will get it right? Then all Jews?
That would be all of mankind.
Like I said I don't want to miss quote you. I would like to believe that all would be saved.

I should have been a little more specific when I responded to rex in agreement about the old testament being written to the jews only.
It's a little more complicated then that.
There was not even a nation of Israel until, well Israel--- Jacob became a nation.
The writings of Genesis were preserved by Israel through Moses
You won't find the title jews until 2 king 16: 6
I would say that Israel were the care takers of the Torah. I thinks most would agree the law and the ark of the covenant was put in there care. They were chosen for sure for a purpose.
Most of the Torah from Moses on was written by and to a specific peaple. I don't think the Prophets were writing letters and warnings to the Gentiles. Although some of the writing were about God going to the Gentiles.
And this may even have been the cause of some of the prophet's demise.

I take it that in Paul's day, the Jews thought there were two different people.....Jews and then everyone else. Everyone else was considered a gentile.


Since Christ, all mankind has an opportunity of salvation through His blood. It is a gift though; not a mandate. IMO, God knows the names and numbers of every single person that will be in His Kingdom; both Jew and gentile. Once all the gentiles that are on the list find Christ; then all the Jews that are on the list will wake up and realize that Jesus is their Messiah. Not everyone both Jew and gentile will accept the gift of salvation.

Thanks for the clarification. That is also what I believe.

This is from the second letter to Timothy from Paul .
Paul wanted to clarify that the Gentiles were also God's peaple. Before Christ saved Saul now Paul.
Paul would have not agreed.
The lord comanded him to go to the Gentiles.





Concerning spiritual Israel. 2 Tim 2 :17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly Finnished unto all good works.
And Roman's 2 : 28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, , which is one outwardly in the flesh: But he is a Jew which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men but of God.
Wouldn't this support spiritual Israel being about faith.
How did Jacob become Israel then is it wasn't faith?

Jonah preached to the Ninevehites . Pretty sure they were gentiles. I know this is not a good example but it popped into my mind.

If one grafts some fruit into a different variety does that graft ever fully replace the original tree and its roots?

For humor only= If one grafts an apple branch onto a giant Redwood, how could he ever get up there to pick the apples, lol.

This is a great point!

Yes it is a good example.
Jonah did not think they where worthy of being preached to.
The whole story of Jonah was obout taking the sins of the world to the grave.
Jonah was self righteous minded til the lord punished him.
And the going to the Gentiles was a for shadowed of the apostles going to the Gentiles.
The Jews just didn't understand.
When the pharisees asked Jesus for a sign. He told them there was no sign but the sign of Jonah.

In 5:17-20, Jesus isn't presenting a rival system to the Law of Moses and the words of the prophets, but a fulfillment of the law and the prophets in contrast with the Pharisees traditions.

It's not about replacement, it's about adoption.
The branches grafted in= Gentiles are adopted in to the olive tree = Israel.
It's obout the faithful seed of Abraham.

Jesus fulfilled the entire Torah law. He was the only one who ever did. The law was there for a time as a teacher to show man his sin. Righteousness is only available through Christ, not through following certain rules.

Now some will say that the ten commandments were not fulfilled. I don't understand why they think that, but suspect they are afraid people will not keep them if they know keeping laws doesn't merit you anything. But if a person is really following the Spirit, of course he will keep the commandments. He will do it because the Spirit makes him want to.

I agree trapper7
Remember Paul was a pharisees before he was converted.
I don't believe I mentioned anything about a rival system.
Jesus even told the apostles not to go to the Gentiles. That was for a time after his finished work.

The tree becomes something else entirely. It's no longer about ethnicity, all who believe in Christ are now the chosen, that is, spiritual Israel.

Good point PAskinner
To fulfill the law was to live a sunless life so we could fave a perfect sacrifice to cover us.
Because no one could ever live by the letter of the law.
The law was brought in because of transgressions.
We should still strive to follow God's comand. Jesus was our example.

So what law would Amos 2:7 "That pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor, and turn aside the way of the meek: and a man and his father will go in unto the same maid, to profane my holy name:" come under. I suppose maybe under the 10 Big Ones.

To me it says this. God created laws by which the Isralites could love and obey God. Over time and certainly by the time of Jesus we have seen how we all sin and fall short but even more important to Jesus and God was over time how the laws became manipulated to be a list of "rules" created by man (religious leaders) to benefit them. I thank God that he actually dispised the manipulating rule makers as much or more than me the sinner, and as our human nature shows we continue those behavioral traits yet today.

Bryce

Sorry for the slow response foxpaw.
The first part I suppose would fall under the first and great camandment.
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all your heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Because Jesus said the second is like unto it .
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On thee two commandments hang all the law and the Prophets. Matthew 22:37-40 paraphrase
Interesting how through lovng God and loving your neighbor Jesus says the law and the Prophets hang on them.
Seems like a good place to be.

The second part, though shalt not commit adultery.
So yes the Big 10

I like your coment bblwi.
Look at today's society. We have an escalation of laws and rules that are chipping away at our liberties.
Israel had been in bondage for four hundred years. They were institutionalized. Thy lived in bondage under a tyrannical rule. When they were brought out of Egypt. They only knew how to be led. They had learned idolatry from the Egyptians. And idolatry soon became there god.
Sounds a little like today's society eh.
God brought In the law because of their transgressions.
These were the children of promise. They would be reconditioned to be caretakers of the ark of the testimony and learn about sacrifice over the next 40 years.

Thanks