No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Any citizen scientists? #8061028
01/26/24 07:45 PM
01/26/24 07:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
D
Dean Chapel Offline OP
trapper
Dean Chapel  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
A 500 year flood occurred on the Clarkfork river in MT 100 years ago, resulting in alot of mine tailings washing down the valley floor. The native trout, eastern brook trout and rainbow trout can't live in the water anymore, and trash fish and brown trout is all that remain. Montana has begun a remediation process to remove contaminated topsoil, which additionally resulted in a documented 99% kill of remaining fish.
Now, to my subject at hand- I've noticed that perhaps 10% of the muskrats I catch on the river have liver cancer. Neither MT fish and game nor the dept of environmental quality are interested in my findings on the topic. Subsequently, I've decided to do a study of my own, and know how to do it. However, what I do not have is a funding source for running toxicology/heavy metals testing on the livers as well as funds to have a pathologist examine livers for me. This would be for 100-200 livers. Anyone know of a resource that might help either do the testing for free or a grant source to pay for the testing? My time is free, but cannot fork over 10 grand to pay for this. Any ideas? Makes me wish I could talk to old Cohunt

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8061053
01/26/24 08:06 PM
01/26/24 08:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 419
Iowa
O
ou812 Offline
trapper
ou812  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 419
Iowa
The university doesn't have a master student to help? Seems like a study worth pursuing. I ran rock samples for a graduate student looking for arsenic levels. Surely someone there could point you in the right direction.

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8061109
01/26/24 08:42 PM
01/26/24 08:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,237
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,237
Alaska and Washington State
I'll bet you coukd find a student in Missoula, who would be intetested in a project like that.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8061247
01/26/24 10:34 PM
01/26/24 10:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,260
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,260
Oregon
X2 what waggler says.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8061351
01/27/24 12:37 AM
01/27/24 12:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,057
WI
N
nimzy Offline
trapper
nimzy  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,057
WI
How did you arrive at your liver cancer diagnosis?

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8061380
01/27/24 01:42 AM
01/27/24 01:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,694
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,694
Virginia
No one but trappers care about the welfare of muskrats. Trout fishermen is where the revenue comes from.
Even if you can get help to prove liver cancer is caused by the toxic tailings, it won't get any traction. They have bigger fish to fry (or catch and release).

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8061382
01/27/24 01:44 AM
01/27/24 01:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,165
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Online content
trapper
jbyrd63  Online Content
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,165
Ky
Don’t know about out there but the division of water here in Ky would be all over that. But old strip mines keep that part of it going. Same ones over see waste water treatment plants., Also look for an endangered species in the area that you can piggyback your study onto. You ever see series Joe Pickett ?
Heck they were about to drain have of the 3rd largest lake east of Mississippi because of snail darter habitat. I told one of these educated idiots that are part of the F and W they’re in ever stream that feeds the lake 2 years and 1.3 million later they agreed

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8062157
01/27/24 10:54 PM
01/27/24 10:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 52
Maine
N
NaturesTonic Offline
trapper
NaturesTonic  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 52
Maine
How do you know they have liver cancer?

Can you share pics?

Have you talked with a local lab or what lab would you send samples to, and what is the cost of 1 test?

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8062276
01/28/24 04:19 AM
01/28/24 04:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,669
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,669
Rodney,Ohio
As as for sources of funds... Years ago the OSTA kickstarted a research study for the ODOW. With our funding, the DoW was able to get matching funds through Pittman-Robinson.

Here's the link to the study report: http://www.ohiostatetrapper.org/muskratstudy.pdf

Last edited by SNIPERBBB; 01/28/24 04:20 AM.
Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: waggler] #8062907
01/28/24 07:45 PM
01/28/24 07:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
D
Dean Chapel Offline OP
trapper
Dean Chapel  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
Originally Posted by waggler
I'll bet you coukd find a student in Missoula, who would be intetested in a project like that.


Yeah, I would have thought so as well. I called the Department chair of the wildlife biology department in charge of graduate students, and in so many words, I was told that they would not be interested in asking if any students had any interest in such a project. I know of no other way to get hold of a grad student except through the dept chair.

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: nimzy] #8062913
01/28/24 07:48 PM
01/28/24 07:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
D
Dean Chapel Offline OP
trapper
Dean Chapel  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
If you know what cancer looks like, it's an easy dx. Cannot with the naked eye determine exactly what type of liver cancer, but looks like hepatocellular carcinoma to me. Would need pathology to determine further.

I can send a photo to a cell number of anyone who can post it for me. PM your number and I'll send it to you.

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: NaturesTonic] #8062918
01/28/24 07:51 PM
01/28/24 07:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
D
Dean Chapel Offline OP
trapper
Dean Chapel  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
Originally Posted by NaturesTonic
How do you know they have liver cancer?

Can you share pics?

Have you talked with a local lab or what lab would you send samples to, and what is the cost of 1 test?


the only pathology group I know locally is for human samples. I have not yet talked to them for prices, and if they'd consider doing this.
MT fish and game had a pathology contract, but as I said, MT FWP not interested at all so far.
I speak to the governor occasionally. Perhaps I'll see if he can move some people on this matter. He is a trapper too.

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8062961
01/28/24 08:33 PM
01/28/24 08:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,405
MT
S
snowy Offline
trapper
snowy  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,405
MT
I hope you can find a path somehow to get something rolling going with that. It is very important that people get some answers from what you are observing. The right people or group would take it to the limits. I wish I could be more help but there has to be some group that would be able to get the ball rolling.


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8063055
01/28/24 10:06 PM
01/28/24 10:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,640
North central Iowa
B
Bob_Iowa Offline
trapper
Bob_Iowa  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,640
North central Iowa
Maybe you could try to talk to Gulo at least he is in the region and works with wildlife so he might be able to help.

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8063202
01/29/24 03:08 AM
01/29/24 03:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 58
ak ⚡️
A
Alder Offline
trapper
Alder  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 58
ak ⚡️
My suggestion would be calling the State Veterinarian for MT FWP. They could run a sample or two, and likely find it in their budget.

Jennifer Ramsey might be the right contact out of the BZN office.

That being said, they are so plum full of CWD and M.ovi sampling - plus whatever else she's interested in, she may say no. But, it's worth a shot.

Last edited by Alder; 01/29/24 03:09 AM.
Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8063215
01/29/24 05:44 AM
01/29/24 05:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,619
N. Carolina
S
Scout1 Offline
trapper
Scout1  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,619
N. Carolina
Contact Trout Unlimited and remind them they have a stake in this as well. The squeaky wheel gets the grease!


-------------------------------------
DJT & MTG in 2024!
Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8063253
01/29/24 08:10 AM
01/29/24 08:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 798
Labrador, Canada
C
crosspatch Offline
trapper
crosspatch  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 798
Labrador, Canada
Does not help your question but point of information brook trout are not native to Montana.

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: crosspatch] #8063379
01/29/24 11:28 AM
01/29/24 11:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
D
Dean Chapel Offline OP
trapper
Dean Chapel  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
That's why I said " The native trout, eastern brook trout and rainbow trout ". The native trout were bull trout and cut throat trout.

Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Dean Chapel] #8063426
01/29/24 12:39 PM
01/29/24 12:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,337
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,337
The Hill Country of Texas
Dean I think being right was worth a lot more back in the day. Nowadays you can probably leave this earth a martyr and nobody would even notice. Sad but true.


“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Any citizen scientists? [Re: Leftlane] #8063513
01/29/24 02:11 PM
01/29/24 02:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,368
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,368
East-Central Wisconsin
Rats evidently have survived for 100 years post the flood. That would be several hundred generations. Could be a minority say that have not developed a resistance to something, or if there is that much cancer many are dead earlier. 10% is not a huge percentage, but rats being a short lived species means that it develops quickly if it is indeed cancer growth. For me it would be beneficial to include beaver or maybe other more aquatic mammals like otter and mink to see if they have symtems. Especially beaver if present as they spend a lot of time in the water and store large amounts of food in the water for months. What is the current population as compared to say 15 years ago, 30 years ago if you know that data? Brown trout are native to Europe and thus may have different immunities etc. compared to our native trout species.

Bryce

Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread