Mostly the reason for not being able to join the Freemasons is historical. The POPE and the kings tried to kill off the Knights Templar in the 14th. century.

The Knights had money and influence. So an excuse was created to do away with the Templar. The date of Friday the 13th. was the day of execution for them.

You have to be a member of the Blue Lodge to become a Templar.

I'm neither Catholic nor a mason, but I see a problem with this pledge...as Christians, doesn't our loyalty belong to the one we claim is the true king of the world - Jesus? To pledge loyalty to a nation or its government would divide my loyalty. I can't decide if that's breaking Commandment 1 or 3. I think a sound argument could be made for each. I don't know what the Pope's rationale was in the statement currently being discussed. That's just my own two cents.

This thread has been interesting. There are tangential topics oozing out in every direction. Many of them would be fun to discuss, but I don't think we can effectively address them all. There have been some good, humble, honest responses; these have been refreshing. Others seem to just be emotionally triggered by views that aren't in line with their own; which is par for the course. When it comes to religious and political discussions, the underlying issue that I almost always detect is syncretism (I've beaten this horse before, but I don't think it's dead yet). None of us should be surprised by that; there has been some research that suggests that Syncretism is America's primary religion. Barna Group did a study in 2021 showing that 69% of Americans claimed Christianity, but only 6% were what they called "integrated disciples". If they're right, that means that 90% of people who claim to be living from a Christian view of reality are, in actuality, living from a different worldview. In other words, 90% of what passes for Christianity in this country, to put it simply, isn't. One of the most common modes of syncretism that I see here is political in nature: people have obviously sworn allegiance to and put their faith in some (usually idealized) version of American politics, but then they defend their loyalty to a human institution by claiming that it's really loyalty to God Himself. I can't get behind that (Neither could Daniel, see his namesake book, especially chapter 3). It does happen though. I've seen people on T-man say that Trump is the Messiah. There have been plenty of memes posted with DJT bowing before a cross which sits before the American flag. Where did that image come from? In what direction is that designed to lead our loyalties? This isn't a new phenomenon, however. The dome of the capitol rotunda contains a fresco called "The Apotheosis of Washington." It may be symbolic, but it is pretty telling. It also reminds us of earlier days when everyone literally thought that kings were demigods or better.

All that to say, as Christians (Catholic, protestant, or in-between), our citizenship is in the Kingdom of Heaven. That doesn't mean that politics and brotherhoods don't matter or that we shouldn't care. It doesn't necessarily mean we can't be a part of political groups or social clubs. It just means that they don't get to have our primary allegiance. Our views, opinions, memberships, etc. should always be evaluated in the context of our membership in God's Kingdom and our loyalty to King Jesus.

No one knows what Washington thought or said except him. Everyone is finding what someone said 200 or more years ago because it props up there version of what they think. What was said or written down that long ago can't be proved one way or the other,

"No one knows what Washington thought or said except him. Everyone is finding what someone said 200 or more years ago because it props up there version of what they think. What was said or written down that long ago can't be proved one way or the other,"

Huh....same could be said of the Bible....

and here we go!

I guess the libs are right, we shouldn’t be having kids say the Pledge of allegiance to the flag or even the military for that matter.

Freemasonry is no more a religion than trapping. If you want it to be, it will be.

An excellent point. A lot of the writings Washington left behind were intended for public consumption--a public that was predominantly Christian. Washington was a great general and leader, but was also at some level a politician.

For his true views on such things as a deity and Freemasonry, I would be more influenced by his private writings--his letters, diary, journal, and so forth.

Jim

Of course we know what Washington said, according to your thinking all recorded historical figures quotes mean nothing or aren't accurate because of age. This is the kind of thinking that rewrites the history of this nation by liberal revisionist. I credit my sources which can be found supporting what was said. You dismiss what was said out of hand, you offer no proof for your statements. Got any idea of what Patrick Henry said? Think it can't be proved?

Good point.

...not many mighty, not many noble, are called...