From the NTA, for posts made here in the trapping political forum in regards to the current administration of the NTA during the recent election cycle. Be careful if you have anything negative to say about the people currently running the show, even if it is the truth.

Congratulations!!

Well they wont get a dime or any support out of me. But I'm sure they think they will be getting ahead.

Banished? I just told my State Association where to stick it. I didn't even get a fancy letter, just a couple of emails.

The NTA is going to regret banishing you when they lose the support of Paul Dobbins, Trapperman and many Trapperman members.

Keith

Looks like you really did ruffle some feathers Angela. Congrats, hopefully you at least got them thinking. Although I doubt it.

If I wasn't a life member (since about 1996 or so) I would drop this organization like a hot potato. As it is they will not see a dime of my money until there are some significant changes within the organization and I would not attend any of there conventions even if it were held in my backyard.

Scary stuff, Lol....What they really want is for you to be silenced, and there seems to be a lot of that going around these days.

Looks like you wont be NTA trapper of the year.

What a sad thing for a once proud organization.

I see no difference in a entity doing this than the government taking away one's right to speak up against what they feel is wrong, and we all know what's wrong with both.

If the NTA is so worried about people in membership voicing their opinions about how things are being run or ideas to advance better progress in the association, that they will expel members instead of letting them voice an opinion, they are not worthy of the support that they are asking for !

I'm a life member they can take my membership away and you know what I'll not know any difference from having it gone, thats how serious this is in them not doing any communication !!

Wow, I thought about joining but not now

Exactly why I will never become a life member of any organization. Once you have paid to become a life member they no longer have any reason to listen to your opinion. There are organizations that I will probably support all my life, but I will never become a "life member."

I want one of those

WOW!!!
Well, everything they say they are about you can be that on your own. Ethical, heritage, preservation, conservation and so on, we can all do those things on your own and be stewards to the trapping world and the outdoors without them anyway.

The members are the NTA. That’s crazy! As board members of an association, you gotta be able to take some heat and back up your decisions.
If they saw you in a hat like this they wouldn’t touch you

I am thinking about becoming a member of Fur Takers of America. I am going to let my NTA membership expire.

What's the backstory on this situation?

Well...that's it for me. No longer will I support the NTA.

Cancelling a member because they don't like what that member said.....Bunch of crap!

Trapperman.com and I will no longer support the NTA. We're done! 100% of our support will be for the FTA from this point forward.

How do you sue to revoke your membership to an organization? Asking for a friend.

This is a BIG mistake made by this organization. Apparently the consequences were either never considered or they do not care about other members, only themselves. Either way they should have given their actions more though and tried a different approach.

What a sad, sad day for the trapping community!

Agreed when you consider leadership changes at the top can and often warp the group into something unrecognizable.

My guess is they think it's THEIR organization not the members. Little power and they think they are the elite.

Wow thank you everyone, I never expected this much support from all of you! I got a chuckle from some of your replies like those of you congratulating me, Savell's song, and Boco's trapper of the year comment.

But ultimately I agree with those expressing the sentiment that it's sad. Because it is sad. I was once so excited to become a director of the NTA some years back because I really hoped to bring about the changes I felt would benefit the organization. I quickly learned that change in that organization was all but impossible, simply due to the structure of the association. I had to resign as director when I moved from IL to MS, but I continued hoping for the best and honestly was mistaken enough to believe that the current President could bring about those positive changes. Never in a million years did I see things unfolding the way they did.

But anyways, I digress. While I certainly appreciate the support from those such as Paul and the others stating that they will no longer support the association, it's a dang shame that it's come to that. Unfortunately efforts to fix the issues from the inside and from the outside have failed, and perhaps withholding financial support is the only option left to get through to those in charge, although I hate it.



6 or so months ago, Paul created a trapping politics forum to discuss issues within the NTA during a contested election for the position of President. John Daniel was running against Roy Dahlgren. I posted some truthful information that I was aware of, such as the fact that the NTA broke their bylaws under the direction of the current President by purchasing a building without board approval, and that the NTA was sued by a former employee for wrongful termination after she was fired for reporting sexual harassment of a coworker, and that (unlike in my case), the Ethics Committee dismissed charges against the officers involved in the harassment without even having a fact finding session over the objections of the Committee chairman.

That's the gist of the backstory, without writing 10 pages worth of information to explain it all.

Well now I am done with the NTA

The Alaska Trappers Association has been pretty tight with NTA and I was thinking about getting a membership; however, I think you changed my mind.

Rejoined my States association a week ago and was going to join the FTA and the NTA. No longer will that happen. Looks like an old fashioned house cleaning is in needed badly.

Why didn't the coworker, the alleged victim report it?

She did. To her friend and co-worker Vicki Wright. To whom else would you recommend she report it to? The President, who is the best friend of the Vice President that allegedly did the harassing? How did that work out when Vicki unknowingly reported it to that same person, not realizing he was involved in the whole incident?

the cops?

Sad state of affairs when something like this happens in any organization, but especially in a trapping organization, which has a comparatively small membership to begin with.

It is actions such as this - plus other infighting - is one of the reasons the animal rights people are winning. Their method of “divide and conquer” is working very well. Trappers can’t form a unified front to defend themselves.

Very sad indeed.

angela, this is very sad, I'm sorry you got the boot for supporting me and actually looking in my letter and finding that it was the truth, not one director did or if they did would say anything at the meeting in Escanaba, not one board member said anything about the bylaw , one guy ask a question about it at the membership meeting and john talk about it for 10 minutes and never answer the question

Unfortunate events to say the least.

Banana republic comes to mind.

I gave up on them a long time ago. Was thinking I would go to Sioux City next year to enjoy the company of fellow trappers. Not now. No gate/camping fees from me either.

Well, this’ll get their attention pretty quick! I know Tman is pretty small time to compared other trapping forms but still….LOL!

We as Trappers and Predator callers/Hunters need a national organization to speak on our behalf in Washington and at a national level. We do not NEED the NTA. As Paul said, we should take our support from the NTA and focus our support for the FTA. I as a member of my states trapping organization (MTPCA) have suggested to our board that we do not support the NTA but DO support the FTA at a state level. Michigan has the highest NTA membership per states. That will change after this year.

If all the other states would do the same, give that money and support to the FTA instead of the NTA. We would be in great shape at a national level. Is the FTA perfect? Nope, but they are a stand up group that will stand up WITH us and for us.

When my NTA membership expires next year, I will take that money and buy a FTA membership for someone who is not a member. Consider that please.

It is a sad situation when those that are defending trapping and trappers rights are battling each other .We need to remember what is right and what we are try to accomplish. Of course we do not always agree .But the founders od the Declaration of independence did not always agree either But their desire to achieve a higher purpose was greater than any other goal Banishing those that have been dedicated members in the past does not help anyone .

Thank you for your sacrifice. Oddly enough the same ethic's committee that couldn't be used against officer's in question was turned around and used to boot not only you but also the ethic's committee chairman who was also the director from my state as well as the SE Regional Director, plus he was a life member. In times of low fur markets, memberships already down or just remaining steady its not a good idea to get rid of even more members and supporters but through many years sitting on that board I watched as different people came along with great idea's and generated alot of financial support as well as great publicity be dissed at every twist and turn till they just faded back into the background never to be seen again. I even made the comment a few times through the years asking if we go out of our way to run off those who support us the most?

I gave up in 2013 and stepped down and haven't donated a single dime to NTA since! As a life member you can't get out of an organization but also you cost the association money the rest of your life, they still have to service your membership whether you support them or not! I can't get on board with FTA because i can't and won't support known liar's and that place seems to attract them like flie's on a turd.

Maybe now NTA can rig their election's like they want so no one can even run unless they are a past or current officer, that should ensure they can keep total control over their little universe and ensure NOTHING ever changes, just keep doing the same ol dumb stuff expecting a different result. Every 20 years they have to blow off both feet and wonder why the place can't garner the support of at least 50 percent of the trappers.

1984 Don Hoyt fiasco

2004 Dave Sollman/Dave Wills fiacso

2023 this fiasco.

Maybe they can limp along another 20 years and have another fiasco if there's still enough of anything left of the place to even have a fiasco.

As for Paul, how many years has a Dobbins booth been at the NTA convention? Going to be a strange looking place without that name being represented there and yes this is a sad day and NTA didn't have to be this way!

Nailed it,,, I didn’t re-up my nta membership this year… I did however re-up my fur takers and Illinois trappers.

Yep, my membership renewal sits on my desk until I see some change in this kind of crap happening…….

Life members have no say. Just the elite.

Sounds like a good reason not to become a life member of any organization. They can become sour over time.

I for one remain unclear on the alleged "FACTS". I have talked to some folks and read quite a bit of what has been presented here and in the lead-up to the election. Seems to be high on emotion and short on facts. But that's just my take.

That also seems to be Dave and Kare Linkhart's take in a plea for unity:

"So many half-truths, twisted truths, and pure fantasy falsehoods were directed at not just the opponent in the race, but ALL of the leadership in the NTA."

Its truly sad to see.

Time to bury the hatchet.

Won't be happening with me or Trapperman. They've gone too far.

The lawsuit and Toby's accusations about the Ethics Committee fiasco notwithstanding, the FACT is that the NTAs legal counsel threatened me and John Daniel's political opponent Roy Dahlgren with lawsuits for stating facts about the association. They then had ethics charges filed against me, Toby, and Roy for the same reasons. I believe those are the FACTS that most people are the most upset about.

I see there dropping membership price for new people.
I did not renew
I hope you got them worried Ms A.

The response I received when I let them know I was unhappy with their decision.

Thank you for your note of concern; however, I do not believe that "the NTA" expelled anyone. When a person joins an organization, the person agrees to abide by the rules of that organization. If the organization is the National Trappers Association the rules which govern elections, meetings, the ethics of the membership, etc. are set forth by the NTA Board of Directors. Then there are committees, staffed by NTA members, who oversee these various rules.

EXAMPLE: If an NTA member (not "the NTA") felt that another NTA member had violated the NTA rules on ethics, then the complaining member lodges a complaint with the NTA Ethics Committee against the member that he/she feels had violated the ethics rule.

Then the NTA Ethics Committee (not "the NTA") investigates the complaint and invites the accused party to refute the alleged charge of violating the ethic rule.

Then the NTA Ethics Committee (not "the NTA) determines the outcome.

The NTA is operated by a Board of Directors when in session and an Executive Committee when the Board of Directors is not in session; and ALLWAYS the Board of Directors has veto power over the Executive Council and can at any time undo any action of the Executive Council.

The NTA Committees are made up of NTA Directors AND non-directors. When you hear that "the NTA" did this or that "the NTA" did that - it is not true. "the NTA" does nothing - its members are the ones who control the issues. What it boils down to is that the NTA is run by NTA MEMBERS who care about the future of trapping and conservation.

Take Care
Jim Buell

Oh that’s rich! The same Jim bs that called myself Shelly and Cindy seff liars and said nothing to see here when we brought it to his attention his buddy Dave sollman was totally out of control. Ethics committee is only a weapon those in charge can use!

I reckon I could employ the same tactics here. If someone replies with something that I think is false and hurtful, I could banish them from here rather than just deleting the reply.

What Jim failed to mention is that the ethics committee has no non-directors on it, but is made up of a majority of EC members... Brian Cogil, Mike Sievering, and Rusty Kramer all serve on the Executive Council and were all present on my conference call with the Ethics Committee.

I asked them during that call if they really wanted to weaponize that Internet Policy they were slinging around and so set the precedent that anyone that chooses to run against an incumbent officer in the future will not be allowed to post anything against his opponent without ethics charges being filed against them. Apparently they did choose to set that precedent.

As to the rest of what Buell said, it's mostly accurate... the process he described is how it works. The committee was supposed to tell me who filed the charges against me, but they did not. I do believe though, from what I could decipher from the wording of the heavily redacted complaint letter that was sent to me, that charges were not filed by a run-of-the-mill member, but by an officer of the association.

Uhm, you know better than that. The precedent has been set for the NTA to refund a lifetime member some of his or her money and allow them an exit

I will no longer attend an NTA event. I will no longer donate any money that has a chance of funneling to the NTA.

If the convention is ever held in MN again I will not attend. It has been 30 35 years since I've missed a MN convention. So be it.

I was waiting for the decision to be made on this and did not renew my NTA membership at our convention in September due to that. l agree 100% with Paul on his decision, l will renew my FTA membership and hopefully get others to support the FTA through memberships.

Im also going to speak to the NCTA Board of Directors about no longer sending yearly donations to the NTA.

Im throwing the NTA election ballot in the trash.

Thank you Paul for your leadership on this.

No Steven it's even worse now, that member wanted and DEMANDED his money back and got his wish. Toby was tossed out and not given his money back!

New policy is what threat level are you during an election, that's the criteria to gauge whether your worthy of being a coveted member of this secret squirrel society or not.

There was a narrow window after the dust settled last time to right the ship and get some of the lost members back but that time came and went and the damage that's been done this go around can't be fixed.

After all this turmoil I don't see any decent honest person ever even attempting to run for any of these office's again, who in their right mind would? The old guard won and they can maintain whatever power they think they have till the whole thing falls apart.

huntrap247, just curious but who did you send your original email to? The office?

No decent, honest person will even be allowed to run if this bylaws amendment passes.

The NTA might have its bylaws and such but there is still a 1st Ammendment right to free speech. The NTA can NOT get around that no matter what their silly one sided rules say!

That applies to the government. Not an org or individuals.

We learned throughout this experience that the bylaws are now just a suggestion, no one has to go by them, rules are out the window, anything goes.

doesn't [REALLY] apply to .gov, either.

when .gov "suggests" to big private platforms that they "might want to consider" censoring some opinions, well...

it's kinda like Fast Eddy saying to a shopkeeper "You have real nice kneecaps there. Be a real SHAME if something happened to 'em"

Larry, that might be true but…......an organization has options. First they can kick you out, secondly the can send you a cease and desist order with the threat of litigation if you don't step in line. Who's going to fight that unless they're wealthy

Civil courts say otherwise. This goes to anyone.

Everyone on the NTA contact page lol.
Only one I got a response from.

I just rejoined the NTA mainly for the publication. Sorry to hear about this fiasco. Hope y'all get it worked out.

I don't want to get this off-track but 1984 was a long time ago. Care to refresh what the "Don Hoyt fiasco" was? I am drawing a blank trying to remember, but that happens a lot these days.

Seems to me the nta is using Brandon's playbook

I don't want to get this off-track but 1984 was a long time ago. Care to refresh what the "Don Hoyt fiasco" was? I am drawing a blank trying to remember, but that happens a lot these days.[/quote]
After 40 years it would be interesting to hear just what took place.Fur prices were high,the NTA was growing,Don Hoyt was president and won re election.Then in the following months to come it was one thing after another on charges leveled against him and then,he was gone.Never an explanation on what happened or why,they just got rid of him.Apparently the membership didn't need to know what happened to him or why

Seems like if anyone with any membership can request to have their names and info removed from the system and cancle them if they were so inclined . I don't believe anyone is locked in for life.

It's truly a sad state of affairs. Honestly are they paid positions? Do they just like to feel like they have some kind of power and it's a volunteer positions they want to keep so they feel important? I Honestly have no idea how they work or the motivation only that it's a sad day when you attempt to silence people.

Hmmmm, we’ll see how this plays out. Was looking forward to Sioux Falls, coulda made a week round trip out of it …..Minnesota has a pretty big convention.

pm sent preacher lee, don't want to get this off track

Response from John Daniel

Not sure what letter your talking about
But I see the office manager is cc'd on this email so
Im sure your wish will be carried out

What was your wish?

Anglia, could you post the rest of the letter? I would like to see what the rest of the letter states. I am curious what they stated as a reason for your expulsion. Thanks.

The email I sent;

To whom it may concern;

It has come to my attention that you have expelled a member for there speaking out about the truth as they saw on another platform.

I saw the letter.

This is how far we have fallen as a group of like-minded individuals?

Are we no better than the social media platforms that silence those who would speak the truth?

Are we not above the Government agencies we see lie and silence the people every day?

Are we not better than the animal rights activists who twist and distort our know truths to fit their own agenda?



I am ashamed I was once a member of such an organization, and I am glad I did not renew my membership when I heard rumblings of this atrocity.

Please remove my name from your mailing list as I will not support the NTA as it stands.

Huntrap247 well the president doesn't sound overly upset about the loss of your support.

Here ya go Tony.

I was less than impressed with his nonchalant attitude towards an (ex) members disappointment.

Huntrap247 since you represent no current loss or potential gain of revenue ... you are irrelevant! Lol



Yotetrapper30, did you ask for your dues back pro rata ???

Thank you A. I am glade you were and offered a chance to speak. I am also glade you took them up on their offers to voice your concerns.

I see the future of the industry changing rapidly. I am excited to see the direction it is heading and hope to live long enough to see some goals come full circle. I hate to see so much division in our industry, however, it is how change comes about. The industry will prevail.

I am glade to see that another national organization will be getting the support of many who separate from the NTA. The FTA is a fine organization who teaches modern technology and techniques through sound tested and true methods. The NTA and FTA both have one common goal even if stand alone organizations, they work together for the greater good of all in the industry.

The letter indicated that Angela violated the NTA Code of Ethics and the Internet Policy Statement.

Where is this NTA Code of Ethics and the Internet Policy Statement?

It is not part of the by-laws and if it is on the NTA Website, it is well hidden.

Where are the Board Policies that provide for disciplinary action found? These were also referenced in the Expulsion letter.

To my knowledge it is not posted anywhere that can be accessed by the public. They are kept in files at the office in Bedford. In theory you can contact the office and ask for a copy of any of those things but I say in theory as I am still waiting for a copy of a current committee list I asked for in April. The office girl said she would get it to me soon. I guess she didn't get it done soon enough, lol.

Both documents were enclosed with the original complaint that they sent me.

Never ending. This is why trapping will be abolished eventually, state by state, because trappers can't get along with trappers. Anti's can just sit back and wait for the imploding from within our ranks. Trapping organizations are rife with drama...spawned from jealousy, hatred of others, anger from not getting their way, rumour mills, lack of interest, directors who don't care or follow the clique, lashing out at each other, etc., etc, etc. Trappers would make horrible corporate leaders.

The only place I haven't seen this is within the small county groups, the state affiliates. Where all you see are trappers coming together with their small rendevous, doing local trapping demos and fur handling seminars, fur auctions, school demos, kids trapping camps, and other community activities to promote trapping. The real grass roots folks. Nobody worried about power. No need to "change" as all are on the same page.

But you need the large state orgs as well as the national orgs, because there lays power and dollars that you need for the fight.

I was involved in the political election forum when it was here, the election happened, the threads quieted, and finally removed. I hoped that things would get back to normal. I hoped the lashing out that occurred here in a public forum would end, that we could move forward and hopefully get back to supporting the NTA.

I'm not saying I agree with you being expelled Angela, but I do think you knew you may end up there based upon where others who shared your strong sentiment ended up. And now airing it out here to attain "support" is self serving, and does nothing to heal the wounds. It only further separates us as trappers, quite evident from the posts in this thread. We need to get beyond this. See the big picture, break this cycle.

Current bylaws on the site are from July 2021

Probably not been amended since then?

Don't know

Trappermac, you must live in a bubble, i could go on forever about state association's dissolving, wrong doing, infighting, hostile take overs, heck you name it, this nta stuff is tame to what ive witnessed in state associations but like FTA and NTA up until recently nothing negative was ever allowed to be spoken, if you did you were jelous, bitter, looking for attention, blah blah blah by those like yourself that think somehow trapping won't survive without poor representation by people of questionable character. All the while little by little states are being whittled away but keep sending money for the fight!

If your fine with how things are run support who you want, no need to belittle those that don't blindly follow along like you. Bad representation is worse than not having any at all!

As for internet policy, probably some more policy's hidden in a desk drawer waiting to be pulled out like a gun in case of emergency. Cloak and dagger system still alive and well!

Status quo, huh?

Their responses to the members letters of disapproval on how this matter was handled is alarming. They seem not to care whatsoever about if members are canceling membership.

Trappermac, your post falls on deaf ears. Your words only fuel the fire that burns within. Some people live for the fight. Never underestimate the power of turning the pitch fork folks against the torch bearers or the people of the valley looking up into the hills at the mountain folks. Some envy what others have and some despise those who do have. Moving forward is sometimes costly and often times some people have to be left behind. I am a half glass full kind of guy and I look for the good in all adversity. Everything happens for a reason and maybe some day we will know that reason. As for now, don’t allow this to drag you into depression or dismay as these things have come and passed many times before.

… getting to be like an audition for the motion picture Braveheart in here lol

… thinking about starting the Deep East Texas Trappers & Wildcat Slappers association lol

.. trappers need to align and piggyback trappers rights with the national big game, waterfowl and pheasant type hunting orgs to have real pull imo

… I know… dogs

Great response

they the [NTA] could have handle this better, both these people were very active members of the NTA at one time sacrifice their time and family time to try and better the nta they did not need to be kick out on their first offends. [ imo]. lots of people have call me and ask, well I got kicked out for a year and can come back after a year and will be on probation. If I'm good and don't up set the cart,

So your kicked out for a year? On probation? Maybe you should get involved to change things, hahaha

all three of us campaign for john when he first got elected. wow were we wrong imo

I never saw an election ballot, but I only joined last April…..maybe it was too late?

election ballots were back before the convention. theyre tallied and the results presented at the membership meeting on saturday of the convention.

They’re within is part of the problem Roy. You, nor you co-conspirators feel that telling half truths and spreading out and out lies is a problem. All is fair in love and elections right. Roy you admitted to me on the phone that you did not have all the facts and instead listened to someone else when writing your letter. Is that why you were so quick to take it down? You were proven wrong on several of the statements with facts. You lost by 2/3 after the ugly letter you wrote, after the blotched ballot mess and all the campaigning on here all you could get. 2/3 of the folks vote to keep the NTA going in the direction it is heading.

As far as the others, I personally feel that 2/3 of NTA feel the right action was taken.

The voters don't even know half the truth.

As a seeker of truth, I'm still waiting for the indisputable evidence to evaluate claims by both sides, but the NTA and it's elected management has been pretty silent on there end ... are there some improprieties being hidden???? Sounds like there may be some truth in those half truths ... It always amazes me that the truth finds a way of rising to the top and eventually revealing itself for all to see.

Roy, when I read this to Christine, the first words out of her mouth ... "are they kids now?"

Scott, it may take a little yeast to make it rise and a little caustic to settle solids.

"the NTA" does nothing - its members are the ones who control the issues. What it boils down to is that the NTA is run by NTA MEMBERS who care about the future of trapping and conservation.

AGREE DISAGREE DISAGREE AGREE

Bottom line for me is if anyone out there has done more to promote trapping then Roy Dahlgren let me know

Mr Howard, I wouldn't know about that, I'm not a baker; but I do know that what we as humans consider valued products are extracted when temperature and vapor pressure are applied in the correct combination .

Roy, please tell me that you are not going to rejoin after 1 year and allow yourself to be put on probation.

Refiner?

Care to elaborate on what Roy was proven wrong about? I've yet to see any facts that did so.

yes, m howard what fact were proven wrong, because the nta has not said so on anything in my letter other than what toby said and that was all over the internet,

Officers monitored this site hourly during all that and had the same chance and opportunity to point out what misinformation was being presented yet chose not to but rather run behind a lawyer and threaten everyone unless they shut up. Pretty hard for Roy to win an election when he can't speak, and his opponent has pages and pages in the magazine touting how wonderful he is! Id of been shocked had the election turned out differently! Toby was a useful idiot just like you until he asked the wrong question, enjoy your comrades, you'll be fine long as you remain in your highchair with your bib on and let them spoon feed you what they want you to know and never question anything going on. Typical go along to get along director but it doesn't matter anymore cause the board has no authority over anything and the bylaws are just suggestion's now.

Glad the membership likes the direction your going, maybe you and them can get out your check books and sponsor all the guns trapperman use to sponsor at EVERY event!

Dont think I'll be renewing my nta membership ,maybe put more money to sportsman alliance.

Somebody’s gotta get in there to make some change.

M. Howard will continue to see it only one way. No disrespect M.Howard, this is my own observation from viewing this from the sidelines since this started last spring. I WAS in support of the NTA up until the end of July. I did not agree with the leadership, but I was in support of the NTA as a national association to help protect and promote trapping. Now I feel the FTA can do a better job with less "Infighting" and less drama.
The NTA has had some "Not so good" problems in the past and they (the NTA leadership) keep continue to have "problems".
Is the FTA perfect? Probably not, but I for one will switch my support and a little more from the NTA to the FTA.
I am trying to look at ALL of this from a standpoint of "What is best for Trappers and Predator Callers ".
As far as M.Howard, you may be a well respected member of our trapping family and community but as I see your stance, you seem to side with the NTA even if it is looking like there may be some "issues" that should be taken care of. It may be because you are good friends with the leadership of the NTA, I'm not sure, but if that is the case, I would hope you would talk to your friends and let them know a very large majority of NTA members are not happy with what the leadership is doing or how they are doing it.

Everyone should join their State association though. That's where the real work takes place.

M. Howard
On you profile page for your signature you wrote
"You can't fix stupid, but you can vote"

Well I voted and it didn't fix stupid