Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
#8120118
04/12/24 08:49 AM
04/12/24 08:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
OP
"On The Other Hand"
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OP
"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711
Idaho, Lemhi County
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I don't have good data on fisher. There were none in Alaska except on the mainland in southeastern, and populations are not legal for trapping in Idaho. These data I gleaned from carcasses that belonged to Idaho Fish and Game from carcasses that were turned in by trappers. I've caught a few fishers incidentally while wolf trapping. I've never targeted them. The skulls are easily sexed. Only the males have well-developed sagittal crests. The near one is male; the back one is a female. Young-of-the-year animals can be determined by the growth plate (the hypophyseal/epiphyseal symphysis). Juvenile on the right, adult with fused bone on the left. Adults can be sexed easily by size alone. These are femur bones of a female (on top) and a male (bottom). Both are adults. See the small bump on the far femur and the hole on the near one? This tubercle can be used to determine age also. The far (top) one is an adult and the near femur (bottom) is from a young-of-the-year animal. Like marten, fisher can be managed by avoiding capture of high numbers of adult females. It is useful to be able to accurately age and sex the harvest for better management. Hope you enjoyed this weeks' Photo Phriday!
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Sharon]
#8120195
04/12/24 10:54 AM
04/12/24 10:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,240 Northern Maine
Bruce T
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,240
Northern Maine
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Thank you Jack, the difference of male/female skulls is quite a difference. No wonder the big males have those dome heads that I like to see.
Here are my shares. The first one is a very rare type, a cross between a fisher and marten. Very few people have ever seen one That would be interesting.Fisher prey a lot on marten.Then again wolves kill coyotes but in some instances coyotes have bred with wolves.
Nevada bound
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120198
04/12/24 10:59 AM
04/12/24 10:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,327 Wisconsin
RdFx
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,327
Wisconsin
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Thanks for info Jack, learned a bunch...
RdFx
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Bruce T]
#8120204
04/12/24 11:09 AM
04/12/24 11:09 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,531 Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon
"American Honey"
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"American Honey"
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,531
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
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Thank you Jack, the difference of male/female skulls is quite a difference. No wonder the big males have those dome heads that I like to see.
Here are my shares. The first one is a very rare type, a cross between a fisher and marten. Very few people have ever seen one That would be interesting.Fisher prey a lot on marten.Then again wolves kill coyotes but in some instances coyotes have bred with wolves. Bruce, it is a joke. I was being subtle on that...sorry ...it was an old story , of fiction, that I illustrated for a magazine a long time ago.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120252
04/12/24 12:39 PM
04/12/24 12:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,579 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,579
james bay frontierOnt.
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Great info on fisher Gulo. The bio here referr to big male fisher as "Appleheads"
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Boco]
#8120272
04/12/24 01:31 PM
04/12/24 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
OP
"On The Other Hand"
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OP
"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Great info on fisher Gulo. The bio here referr to big male fisher as "Appleheads" That's the exact term I've used for decades with the old, male marten.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120277
04/12/24 01:33 PM
04/12/24 01:33 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,114 Northern Michigan
J.Morse
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,114
Northern Michigan
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Gulo, cool info! I like learning stuff.
Sharon, I believe I remember Hal S. writing a bit about the Fisher/marten hybrids he called "Farten". Hal's powers of observation are legendary! As always, your sketches are fantastic renditions.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Bruce T]
#8120279
04/12/24 01:35 PM
04/12/24 01:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202
McGrath, AK
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Thank you Jack, the difference of male/female skulls is quite a difference. No wonder the big males have those dome heads that I like to see.
Here are my shares. The first one is a very rare type, a cross between a fisher and marten. Very few people have ever seen one That would be interesting.Fisher prey a lot on marten.Then again wolves kill coyotes but in some instances coyotes have bred with wolves. That's interesting Bruce. Can you point me to the data on that predation and how it was collected ? Thanks !
Mean As Nails
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Boco]
#8120283
04/12/24 01:38 PM
04/12/24 01:38 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,524 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,524
MN
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Great info on fisher Gulo. The bio here referr to big male fisher as "Appleheads" Tow headed is the term
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Bruce T]
#8120286
04/12/24 01:41 PM
04/12/24 01:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,433 Midland, Michigan
Rusty Axe Camp
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,433
Midland, Michigan
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That would be interesting.Fisher prey a lot on marten.Then again wolves kill coyotes but in some instances coyotes have bred with wolves. When I first started chasing marten and fisher (not that long ago compared to some of you), that is what I read and was told and also that they typically run in different habitats/areas. One won't tolerate the other. Like yotes and wolves. Last few years, I've seen sign and caught them in overlapping areas that shows otherwise.
Erik Johnson
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120287
04/12/24 01:41 PM
04/12/24 01:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,739 New Hampshire
Nessmuck
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,739
New Hampshire
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Right out the bathroom window ! They don't shy away from neighborhoods
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: J.Morse]
#8120298
04/12/24 01:48 PM
04/12/24 01:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,531 Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon
"American Honey"
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"American Honey"
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,531
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
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Gulo, cool info! I like learning stuff.
Sharon, I believe I remember Hal S. writing a bit about the Fisher/marten hybrids he called "Farten". Hal's powers of observation are legendary! As always, your sketches are fantastic renditions. Excellent memory, JM. Yes that was the article. Actually there were a few of them. I got tired of the phrase " and no one to this day has ever seen one", so I decided to pop that bubble . I saw them myself one day. Having a good old time out in an open wooded place deep in the mountains. I think the brew they were enjoying was a combo of Blue Moon and orange juice. The hybrids were perfect crosses of marten and fisher. From the fisher- bigger bodies , but not as large as fisher, the longer, pointed tuffed tails, the apple ( or is it Mac?) heads... From the marten, the great necklace bling, nicer ears, and wolverine-like paws. The author of said articles didn't want me to show what they really look like. But I used his own philosophy right back to him. He told me long ago, that he loves to huff at editors, telling them what he writes is it....no editing. No telling him to change something. Leave his stuff alone. I quoted his words back to him, finishing with Judge Jeanine's words, " and that's what I'm gonna say about that". One of my editors, a well known fisher trapper, absolutely loved them, expressing in detail the nuances of the illustrated hybrids that he liked. THAT was all the permission that I accepted . Marten, fisher, and hybrids have a thing in common. They all love their brews, music, and entertaining stories.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Rusty Axe Camp]
#8120299
04/12/24 01:49 PM
04/12/24 01:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,240 Northern Maine
Bruce T
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,240
Northern Maine
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That would be interesting.Fisher prey a lot on marten.Then again wolves kill coyotes but in some instances coyotes have bred with wolves. When I first started chasing marten and fisher (not that long ago compared to some of you), that is what I read and was told and also that they typically run in different habitats/areas. One won't tolerate the other. Like yotes and wolves. Last few years, I've seen sign and caught them in overlapping areas that shows otherwise. That is correct.I catch both marten and Fisher in the same areas in the same traps a lot.Have had Fisher eat marten out of my traps and caught the Fisher the next trap set.
Nevada bound
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: white17]
#8120302
04/12/24 01:58 PM
04/12/24 01:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,240 Northern Maine
Bruce T
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,240
Northern Maine
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That's interesting Bruce. Can you point me to the data on that predation and how it was collected ? Thanks ! The data on Fisher killing marten was from me trapping Fisher and marten on my own trap lines for years seeing where Fisher ate marten from my traps confirmed by evidence in the snow(tracks,ect.).Most times I would then catch the Fisher on my next trap visit.I have also seen Fisher chasing marten.
Nevada bound
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Nessmuck]
#8120313
04/12/24 02:14 PM
04/12/24 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
OP
"On The Other Hand"
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OP
"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Right out the bathroom window ! They don't shy away from neighborhoods Nessie - Indeed! This is a photo a friend of mine took in California of a fisher dumpster diving.
Last edited by Gulo; 04/12/24 02:16 PM.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Nessmuck]
#8120324
04/12/24 02:25 PM
04/12/24 02:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202
McGrath, AK
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Right out the bathroom window ! They don't shy away from neighborhoods That would be a crappy habitat !
Mean As Nails
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120325
04/12/24 02:28 PM
04/12/24 02:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,739 New Hampshire
Nessmuck
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,739
New Hampshire
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White ....I bet my scent mound....pulled him in
Last edited by Nessmuck; 04/12/24 02:29 PM.
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: white17]
#8120328
04/12/24 02:37 PM
04/12/24 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
OP
"On The Other Hand"
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OP
"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Jack: what is the biological reasoning behind the lack of a saggital crest in the females ? I assume the muscle attachment points are the same in both sexes .....NO ? I have absolutely no idea, Ken. The sagittal crest is for masseter muscle attachment, and the males have a much expanded list of prey items (over the females). Obviously they eat much larger prey (on the average). Could it also be that the female picks a birthing den that she can barely fit through, in an attempt to keep males from entering and killing the neonates? These are the only possibilities that come to mind. Let me think on that question a bit... Jack
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120335
04/12/24 02:46 PM
04/12/24 02:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202
McGrath, AK
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Jack: what is the biological reasoning behind the lack of a saggital crest in the females ? I assume the muscle attachment points are the same in both sexes .....NO ? I have absolutely no idea, Ken. The sagittal crest is for masseter muscle attachment, and the males have a much expanded list of prey items (over the females). Obviously they eat much larger prey (on the average). Could it also be that the female picks a birthing den that she can barely fit through, in an attempt to keep males from entering and killing the neonates? These are the only possibilities that come to mind. Let me think on that question a bit... Jack Yeah I was wondering about that issue of fitting through a narrow space. Also, I wonder whether the males make greater use of bones than the females do ?? Thus develop those masseters more than the girls do and the crest along with it What about this........can you tell a male from a female YOY by the skull suture ??
Mean As Nails
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Bruce T]
#8120347
04/12/24 02:56 PM
04/12/24 02:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202
McGrath, AK
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That's interesting Bruce. Can you point me to the data on that predation and how it was collected ? Thanks ! The data on Fisher killing marten was from me trapping Fisher and marten on my own trap lines for years seeing where Fisher ate marten from my traps confirmed by evidence in the snow(tracks,ect.).Most times I would then catch the Fisher on my next trap visit.I have also seen Fisher chasing marten. OK thanks. So just a target of opportunity rather than actual predation.
Mean As Nails
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: white17]
#8120348
04/12/24 02:57 PM
04/12/24 02:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
OP
"On The Other Hand"
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OP
"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711
Idaho, Lemhi County
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What about this........can you tell a male from a female YOY by the skull suture ??
I found no differences between the sexes in timing of suture closure. Obviously, the sutures (especially the nasals) are not cemented in the YOY age class, but it was the same for both sexes. Just based on total length and/or zygomatic width though, you could separate sexes. Jack
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120362
04/12/24 03:14 PM
04/12/24 03:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,621 MB
Jurassic Park
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,621
MB
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Young-of-the-year animals can be determined by the growth plate (the hypophyseal/epiphyseal symphysis). Juvenile on the right, adult with fused bone on the left. I like this post Gulo! What bone is this in the picture?
Cold as ice!
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120365
04/12/24 03:23 PM
04/12/24 03:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,202
McGrath, AK
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What about this........can you tell a male from a female YOY by the skull suture ??
I found no differences between the sexes in timing of suture closure. Obviously, the sutures (especially the nasals) are not cemented in the YOY age class, but it was the same for both sexes. Just based on total length and/or zygomatic width though, you could separate sexes. Jack I would think that there must be some relationship between den opening and zygomatic width. The female must "know" that relationship inherently/instinctively. Can you determine sex ratios of previous litters from placental scars .....or are the neos just about the same size at birth ?
Mean As Nails
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Jurassic Park]
#8120428
04/12/24 05:05 PM
04/12/24 05:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
OP
"On The Other Hand"
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OP
"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Can you determine sex ratios of previous litters from placental scars .....or are the neos just about the same size at birth ? Same size at birth. No variation that I can detect in size of placental scars. [quote=Jurassic Park][quote=Gulo] Young-of-the-year animals can be determined by the growth plate.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Jurassic Park]
#8120429
04/12/24 05:08 PM
04/12/24 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
OP
"On The Other Hand"
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OP
"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,711
Idaho, Lemhi County
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I like this post Gulo! What bone is this in the picture?
JP The photograph is of the distal end of a couple of femurs.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120560
04/12/24 08:58 PM
04/12/24 08:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,459 western mn
bucksnbears
trapper
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trapper
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western mn
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Easiest furbearer to catch in my opinion.
Seem fearless and always cruising.
Neat animal.
swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo
You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
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Re: Photo Phriday 131 - Fisher
[Re: Gulo]
#8120579
04/12/24 09:16 PM
04/12/24 09:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,621 MB
Jurassic Park
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MB
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I like this post Gulo! What bone is this in the picture?
JP The photograph is of the distal end of a couple of femurs. Gotcha! Thanks!
Cold as ice!
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