https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/newsroom/release/90041

I mentioned this in the WI trapping thread, but figured it's worthy of its own post.

Wonder how they will get the word out to all the average trappers.

They should update the hotline before doing the press release….

I just got the e-mail.

What do they do for people without e-mail? Expect them to check the internet ever day?

Regulation pamphlet say you should be calling the hotline to check on harvest and make sure it is open.

The bobcat, fisher and otter have always had a quota and it's always been the trappers responsibility to make sure the season is still open while trapping. It just so happens this is the first time I've seen a season close early.

From the regs, "Note: Seasons may close early if the harvest quota for that zone is reached before the listed close dates. For zone status, please call the holiness at 855-299-9653 or visit dnr.wi.gov and search 'trap.'"

Besides a press release, an email, facebook posts, updating the hotline when the season closes, and chatter on here, how else would you suggest they notify trappers?

I was just curious, I don't remember reading that in the reg's. As you said, this might be first time for a lot of guys, so it's not something some are even thinking about.

I guess they figure a person should call the hotline every day. Actually most otter caught in April are incidental so I don't think closing it will have much affect on the overall harvest. It just means the DNR gets the otter and the trapper doesn't get any money for the fur. Probably most incidentals will get pitched.

Hopefully they get turned in. Trappers education gets the money.

I'd like to think our fellow trappers aren't so lazy they can't make a phone call to report it and make sure it goes to some good use rather than it rotting in a ditch. I hope anyone pitching incidentals is a lifetime member of the 330 club with annual renewals.

Are you guys saying it doesn't happen?

What doesn't happen? Incidentals or tossing them?

Surely both happen every year. I personally hope they get turned in and put to use, and anyone who doesn't turn them in due to laziness or any other lame excuse isn't a trapper I would want to associate with.

Tossing them. I have turned in all of mine, but I know there are trappers who don't. The point I am trying to make is that I doubt it will affect the actual harvest and the numbers harvested probably will not be accurate.

I disagree that it won't make ANY difference. A responsible trapper will set traps in such a way to avoid incidental otters. May not avoid them all, but will probably avoid some by closing the season. I know I set different in beaver/otter country based on whether or not I have a tag.

I guess I'd rather the season be closed and take in a few more incidentals rather than let it go on for another month and get accused of overharvest. Look how well that went with wolves. We don't need any more bad publicity.

On April 6th WTA dist 10 volunteer trappers will be at the FRCT building putting up incidental otter. The otter will then go to the FHA auction. The WTA isn't charged a commission fee and the proceeds go to Trappers Education. We normally do 60 some otter on a given day. Incidental otter are also shipped to other WTA districts where they are put up. These incidental otter don't go to waste.

Ok, I understand.

Otter registration and handling of incidentals has come a long ways in recent years. It could go a lot further, like a hotline for incidentals. Simple call, text or email to said line, take incidentals along and rep follow up when they have time. Make it Easy, painless.

30 years ago it was scary. Some folks have long memories which is why some float.

WTA district 8 will also process some otter at the 'Fur Shed' on April 6.

It will be interesting to review the data to see how many otter were harvested and what percentage would be incidentals as compared to other years with lower beaver numbers and or an open winter. Lot easier to trap otters with open water and easy conditions to reach the water.

Bryce

Bumping this back to the front page in case anyone missed it. Otter harvest is done at the end of the day today.

Does Wisconsin have a limit per trapper on otters?

Why not just close the season on a set date every year. Why the confusion?

We have a lot more otters here in Georgia than Wisconsin, so management is obviously looser, but it seems simple to me.

Our otter season is December 1 to end of Feb. Beaver is year-round. Best way to avoid otters here and still catch beavers is using footholds set for beaver back feet. Leave the BGs at home.

Wi has a limit of two per license. Lots more beaver trappers out this year so the annual otter quota was filled early. Last several years I don't think they ever reached the quota.

I would have to check this out with MN trappers. But I heard that If you catch a incidental otter you call It In then you can put up that otter and then turn It In and you would get compensated for your work. That would save wasting 100s of otters every year. The amount of freezer burnt otter we throw out Is just plain wasteful.
I will have to run this by our Fur Bearer Biologist next Saturday.

Beav, how much do you think it's worth to the DNR to pay each trapper for incidental otter put up? How much would they have to pay you to put up a fur you're going to give away for nothing?

Operating on a structural deficit over the next couple years doesn't bode well for that plan when they cam get put up for free by the folks at fur school and other volunteers.

I'm surprised to hear so many get tossed from freezer burn. I've never frozen a whole otter then thawed it out and put it up, but most of the rats we put up in our trapper ed class in August are frozen whole since spring netting and turn out just fine. If it's freezer burn, then maybe a change in preservation method is needed.

The problem Is that all these otter get turned In and they get tossed on top of the otter that where turned In last year. Some of these otter have been In the freezer for years. And you never get to the bottom layer.
I would put up a otter for $10.00 They can send that otter to FHA and get $30.00 for it. That way we don't lose those freezer burnt otter and the trapper makes a buck or 2 and trapper ed gets the rest. The last skinning party I attended we tossed at lest 10 otters.
The other problem Is with Illegally caught otter. The warden puts that otter In the freezer as evidence. Who knows how long It Is In his freezer. Then eventually It ends up In Madison. It's just about impossible to skin some thing that's freezer burnt.

Wisconsin has two otter zones, northern and southern. Season dates are based primarily on the weather. This year, the weather has been, well, the weather. Otters move when water is flowing well. This year, the weather has been advantageous for otter moving in the southern portion of the state; while the northern zone is still frozen.

With beaver harvest up, otter catch is also up. Wisconsin has had at 2500 otter harvest for years with no adjustments and has over the years been approx 75 - 80 percent of quota. Over the.past month the southern daily harvest has been 2x the daily harvest of the north. The favorable weather conditions in the south has pushed the harvest success up against the otter quota for the first time in many years. Southern otter zone normally closes April 1, with the northern otter zone being open for the remainder of April. This year it was determined that the otter season has to close with the southern zone, statewide, to maintain the 2500 quota target.

A little off topic but I was pretty sure rolled up otter don’t freezer burn much in a year and a half. I’ve actually got away with it This year had two holdovers from last season and it was unbelievable how bad they freezer burnt . You Wisconsin guys along the Mississippi from what I’ve seen should without doubt be able to take four otter. Ridiculous limit you guys deal with or quota whatever.

WI traded away larger bag limit for a longer season.

Even at 2 per person, WI has been significantly harvesting more otter than MN. MN was under 1400 last year while we were over 2000.

All that said, they should have increased the quota at last DNR furbearer meeting instead of spending all that time talking about what to do when they went over quota.

So one trapper could take ten otter?

So how many WI trappers on here have dealt with a warden on an otter they've harvested accidentally? If so how'd that go? Did you get the fifth degree and make to feel guilty of an accidental catch? I can see that happening unfortunately and that may lead to otters getting pitched and not turned in.

I haven't trapped in several years and never trapped otter or beaver. I do live on the Mississippi river right close to where the WIsconsin joins it. From what I've seen and heard there's not a shortage of otter here.

I have turned in many incidental otter, never had a problem with the wardens when turning them in. In fact, just turned one in yesterday. The biggest problem is trying to contact someone for permission to remove the otter from the trap and transport it home. Cell coverage is sparce where I trap. Maybe they have eased that portion lately, but I don't take any chances and always call before transporting it home.

Still best practice to call it in before you remove it from the trap. Not always convenient in areas with spotty coverage, but much better than bringing it back to your vehicle and having an unexpected meeting with a warden.

I turned one in a few years ago I caught in a rat trap a week before otter opened. No 5th degree, just told to drop it off at the local office whenever I could. That's when it helps to have a food working relationship with local LEOs.

Absolutely zero need for otter limits in long time established otter populations.
Especially with the incredible habitat that Wisconsin has.
In my opinion of course lol

Apparently we over harvested back in the day. Had to reintroduce and are not making that mistake again. Wisconsin is very committed to our trophies.

I have turned in several incidentals, when my warden 10 years ago was ok with a text saying I had one it got very easy. They should come up with a standard system for convenience. Text record on your phone and free to transport.

Our otter season closes two weeks before the close of beaver season.Our trappers federation helped to get our incidental otter harvest during that time to be able to be kept and sold and reported on the harvest report.
Just not allowed to make sets specifically for otter during that 2 week period,but makes things much easier than having to have to come in from the bush all the way to town to report each incidental catch to a C.O.

They should just give us salvage tags. Tag the otter and remove It from the trap haul It to the truck and go home and call it In.

Problem with that is you get home, Cut off tag and forget to call. That’s Olsonalogy. Or the reason for our paranoia towards semi “ protected “ species. Some philosophies run deep.

Marshrat I have a tuff time buying we outproduce MN on otter with their 4 or 6 limit and a relatively high trapper population.

Are APHIS incidentals considered part of the WI harvest?

Great question. That could explain us out producing MN. If we have help. Just another outrage associated with WS

Well If they are caught In WI they must be part of the harvest number. I'll ask Shawn on Saturday.


As to the salvage tags you would only be using them after you filed your regular tags. And since you only get 2 Cites tags what good would It do you to cut off the salvage tags. The other thing Is you would have to account for those tags When you turn In a Incidental otter that tag number gets recorded. And when the season Is over you would have to turn In your unused tags. So cutting off a tag Is not going to help you.

I might have dreamt this, but I thought I heard they were looking at extending the otter season in MN because of all the incidental otter that were being taken with beaver trappers after the otter season had closed.

Here is the report for 22-23 season. They add trapper incidentals but it doesn’t look like WS is added. Unless total was less than 70 last year. https://widnr.widen.net/s/mxdw27c7db/otterharvest2022_23

2023 meeting minutes that they talked about otter quota has a nice discussion on WS effort and impact on otter. Mentions 150.

https://widnr.widen.net/s/knknczml9q/2023_fac_meetingminutes

Here is MN harvest info….looks like I was wrong. MN harvested less than 1000 otter in the 22-23 season.

https://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/hunting/trapping/harvest.pdf?v=2024.02.15-12.17.53

Sounds like those Minnesota trappers need a lesson in otter harvest from some good ol Wisconsin boys.

Ope, can't do that!

maybe you are just sending some of your rejected bio's that is clogging their system down with them as paper weights.
or it just the Disney effect they are harbouring all along.

Sounds like MNs short harvest season has the numbers skewed. Didn’t see mention of honor system incidentals. MN has an active spring beaver season and closing otter season simply promotes waste. Very few serious trappers are targeting otter during spring dispersal. Or anytime really. Why? Because they don’t have too. To have a closed season when trappers are afield isn’t good conservation or well thought. In fact it’s counterproductive, force to take during otter season only to dispose of later on. Season dates don’t stop catching when species interact. Trap 101, reality check. Kinda leaves MN trappers in a tight spot, turn in incidentals and use it against your quota?

Another interesting note is MN harvest dropping recently and is the opposite of WI according to the charts. It’s smoke and mirrors. Only Confirming a lack of interest in targeting otter.

Even with the lower recorded take the average participant still takes over 2 otter.

You sure about that?

Funny what a little effort can cause. I am amazed at the folks out chasing two otter. Be interesting to see when interest falls. Actually we need otter to shine again to show just how fast we can catch 2500 now?

When those spring beaver trappers are stuck high and dry without a valid tag a couple years in a row, incentive to avoid will be gone. Other than the wardens clamping down again.

All could have been avoided by following the science and increasing the quota last year. Wasn’t like trappers didn’t have representation in that meeting. Look at voting members on attendance.

I sympathize with the proactive thinkers who “save” their tags for spring simply because they are confident they will take incidental otter. By saver I mean using avoidance at all times and tagging the incidental when avoiding fails. If one traps enough the tags will fill on there own. IMO.

You know my thoughts Chris, two tags is a joke if one traps much in the water.

Either that or there isn't many to any otter

Very similar to what Illinois trappers deal with on incidental muskrats during our beaver season. Muskrat closes on Feb 15 but we can beaver/otter trap until March 31. We cannot keep muskrats after Feb 15....grrrr

Another example of poor planning.

Kill the beaver, very liberally. With about 20% of the reproductive potential.
Protect the muskrat. Wait attempt to protect the muskrat as seasons overlap. Add insult with disposal of incidentals.

Don’t understand the justification.

Wasn’t too long ago, they wanted to shorten beaver season.

Those same folks will push like crazy long before we ever have any significant impact on otter.

I hate otter

Which way they pushing?

Well, they didn’t lengthen otter season this year so…..

I know a trapper who tossed 26 otters in a spring beaver season. I told him you need to turn them in so they know how many are out there. He said he use to but a warden accused him of foul play and treated him poorly so he said he’d never turn one in again. Many stories like this I’ve heard like this being In The taxidermy business. Over the years we’ve had some real nasty wardens that have had no respect for people as well as some real standup guys The good wardens make more busts because people will report violations to them. The bad ones no one likes and won’t help them out at all.

Well that individual Is worse then the bad warden. That's just wanton waste on his part.

He also tossed lots of fishers when we still had lots of them. He was a long liner who is no longer with us. I know why he did it, some of these wardens were like Barney Fife on steroids heaped with meanness I’m not anti Warden but the opposite but these guys should have been fired. Thankfully the DA tossed out bad cases and judges chastised the bad warden but they never changed

Highly unlikely incidental otters are going to good use. Incinerator is where they typically end up in MI unfortunately. Doesn’t mean you don’t don’t turn them in but a better program like Beav suggested would be nice. We are getting over run with otter here in MI and our limit is 4.

Here we have incidental seals you can have on you and if an otter is caught seal it right there then no issues with any warden and turn into DNR. Sounds like WI needs incidental seals

I have been pushing for this for years but so far nothing has been done about It.

One year I had 4 incidental otter In 2 checks. First day I called the hot line. They said the warden would be there . I waited for a hour then I called and said I was taking It to the house. The warden came that night and collected the otter and told me If I caught any more just take them home and call me.

Convenient, Standardized reporting of incidental catches would be helpful in dealing with the problem after the problem.


Me too!
Regulation has really reduced the status of certain furbearers.

I would say to put in a resolution, but that deadline has passed. lol

I would just make it a call in. Same as now. Folks can already give to a buddy if they want to be dishonest now so no reason they can’t call it in now.

I’d sooner see you be “dishonest”. Give it away and put it to use than float it. At least it gets utilized and recorded. Zero incidentals should be the goal and increased quota is the first step towards reaching it. It’s a strange predicament, that is testing our problem solving skills. I think we’re stuck in that olsonology rut.

I remember when we had the thread otter logic and I kept telling folks the bag limit changed nothing. It was the quota that was important. Many folks assumed the bag limit solved the issues, but it was the increasing quota behind the scene that was having an impact.

Now without our favorite researcher, folks are afraid to push on. I am not surprised. After all, they just went along with his recommendations in the past instead of asking him to really understand why he was so comfortable in increasing the quota by the amounts he did. Had they done this little thing, they would have increased the quota last year.

Olson gets a bunch of the bad rap, but it is the research folks that have a bigger impact.

I really hope folks take the time to turn in the incidental otter beaver trapping. That number will be the bare bones low number that should be asked for in quota increase. I know the previous researcher would have asked for that much.

What are they afraid of?

I don’t think they have folks that understand what they are looking at. When we did otter logic, folks started taking the chatter to WTA and WCC events. Word was representatives from those groups were finally going to push for a big increase. Science Services went first and his number was bigger than what they were going to push for so they just changed their number to his. If they would have understood the numbers, they would have pushed for a larger number and set the framework in place to go above 2000.

I also think they want to keep a target rich experience. They want to be able to catch otter in every drainage ditch and don’t understand the waste that comes with an under utilized resource. They tend to be the trappers that trap the same place every year instead of going were the fur is. Those are the places that also likely feel the pressure from a more aggressive quota.

All that said, just wait until the natives decide to ramp up harvest. Season will close even sooner. Lol

He was the face behind the fear.



Hear that Steve?

It’s subject to interpretation, perhaps avoidance is a target rich experience.

Wait until some folks get in trouble for trying to register their incidentals. Looking at the deer harvest, we have enough folks registering deer for a holiday hunt that didn’t exist in their county. Hopefully law enforcement takes the time to educate instead of enforce. Actually work to retain trappers. Hopefully we brought this thread to the top enough that we caught a few before putting them in that situation.

I hate that we put more emphasis on quality of experience than we do on managing the resource. Trying to have otter in every pond and ditch in the state comes at a cost.

We skinned about 30 otters at the skinning shed. And another 20 or so that were skinned but not put up. Did a few beaver rats and some cats and a few mink. Started at 8:30 and were cleaned up around 1:00
Had about 10 trappers show up. Some with no experience and some old pros.
Some of those otter were from WLS and as far as I was told they are part of the WI otter quota. But Shawn was up at dist 8 so I didn't get to talk with him.

I expect any known animal removed from the population through harvest methods would be counted. I am curious what caused us to reach the quota this season? Also curious about the impact of incidentals as more trappers “do the right thing”. And the impact of the WS waste.

I don’t believe that a closure was particularly our best option. One targeting otter should not wait until Spring useless they are doing it with incidentals in mind.

Realistically April 1 starts a new season as our license expires on March 31.

That’s a good point. I have to believe the majority of WS incidentals are yet to come. Last year was 150 or about 6% of the total quota. That said, they don’t add those to the total on the otter harvest report.

I never had a count of how many we put up were WS caught but most of the ones we put up were early caught judging by leather quality.

Not added to the report but tallied against the quota?

How many beaver they removing to get that 150 otter?

Maybe it’s time for a WS Logic thread.....

Maybe it's time for WS to learn how to avoid otter if they are catching 150.

Think about it. In May, June and even July the rearing season. If 70 are females they really got 400.

Here’s the math 80 males + 40 young and 30 mature females x2.5 kit average =225 Correction on litter size.

A wise man once stated. “We get stuck in our paradigms”.

Sometimes bad things happen for good reasons.

Report shows over 3500 beaver. Ratio is about 23.5 beaver for each otter.

Not all females will be rearing young. You have to account for the juvenile ones. That said, there is a factor that needs to be accounted for.

Does WS keep male and female ratios?

One may suspect the female take over the summer would be higher, simply because of the enhanced habItat, meaning the beaver ponds where WS is working. They Seem to be better places to live and to rise the young. Whereas males wander in my estimations.

It would be some interesting information to review.

It would be interesting to know what steps, if any, they are taking to avoid them.


Do they ever target otter

That is a question that would be good to ask. I don’t remember seeing the answer. Your logic makes sense. But do we need to give them credit for all the otters they save by eliminating the beaver and reducing all that trapping pressure in the future by making those miles beaver free?

I will say your question highlights the importance of having someone that questions everything in the meetings. Sure it makes the meeting longer, but that is what your stakeholders have you there for. Represent their interests. If you get a chance, ask Arnie to ask the question..

They are trapping beaver to preserve trout habitat, no? I'm sure otter eat trout, so maybe they don't care about avoiding otter.

I heard the only way you can avoid them is to catch something else quicker or just not set a trap. That said, I know they did a trigger study and found that didn’t help with avoidance. In addition, it looks like they are starting with pretty inexperienced trappers based on the meeting minutes and having to train.

I don’t see any mention of targeting otter, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

They have diversified from only doing trout work. Killing lots more for local towns/counties/highway/railroads etc.

As a fur trapper, the reality of this is a stretch. WS takes otter largely because they stay longer with intentions to eliminate the beaver. This is a recipe for incidentals by design.

Fur trappers move more frequently greatly reducing incidentals risks Taking off the cream and leaving when times get tough. We don’t need every beaver and time management moves us along. When the colony is full beaver will fill the traps. Full traps don’t take incidentals, empty traps do. And longer you hang out the better your chances.

Lastly when WS flushes out these streams do you believe they are improving furbearer or waterfowl habitat? Some trout fishermen question the value of the trout enhancements.

Reaching this quota and closing our season has exposed how complicated a wildlife model can be and the many layers that influence it. As trappers or primary stakeholders, I believe we have a responsibility to peel off the layers and see what falls out.

WS is the low hanging fruit and their “acceptable?” actions appear unacceptable as they influence quotas and deny opportunity. This has become a problem, what’s the solution?

Follow the example on otter for beaver. Make them a trophy. Limit the folks that can trap them. Watch them explode and find a way to get folks to want and catch their two no matter the market conditions.

Yeah that way APHIS can hire more trappers to control the problem. You know, the salaries we trappers pay with our taxes and buy their equipment with our taxes, and pay to trap our municipalities with our taxes. Sounds like another excellent idea.

The problem I’m referring too is reaching the quota, with unwelcome help. So that said perhaps their methods need greater scrutiny? Should causing incidentals waste be held to a higher standard? Say 1:100?

So here Is the # FOR the USDA director.

Office # 608 837-2727
His name Is Dan Hirchert.

Cal him and get his side of the otter issue. Then call our Furbearer Biologist and get his side.

What should be asked ?

How come you get 150 otter when everyone else gets 2?

Why is it the free trapper gets his balls busted for catching otter out of season yet WS takes 150?

With the current assignment, I am not sure that is possible unless one is practicing catch and release. You and 49er going to provide trainings on how to accomplish?

Alright then WS live trap, thanks for offering an alternative and solving the problem.

For starters leave the body grips home. And attentive selection of trap sites. It’s doable, inconvenient but doable.

Inconvenience is synonymous with otter.

I wonder if the USDA numbers are accurate. Is it possible some of their otter don't get reported by their individual trappers? Do their trappers get frowned upon by their supervisors when they start catching too many? Just a thought.

If we only knew. Put people in a compromising position.

Higher quota would likely add some clarity. Attitude change might help too.

I tend to believe they report vast majority. Any missed likely come from paperwork issue versus not being truthful. If anyone took the time to read the meeting minutes, one of their agents reported a dog incidental.

I can guarantee that caused some more training to happen, but I don’t think it makes them less likely to report.

One could argue that a domestic is much more traceable. Someone will likely be looking for them. Wild things don’t have that luxury.

I would say that if. WS trappers practice non reporting it would be management /procedural flaw. Same with free trappers.

For sure. But blowback is much greater.

You catch another and you are likely gone. That is incentive. You have a bad run on otter and no one notices. Probably takes a few bad runs before anyone says a thing.

Now you get caught not reporting either one and you are likely gone. There is no leash for dishonest behavior.

So they cut the southern zone back by 2 days that should solve the quota shutdown.There so smart!

Apathy is a problem when you are producing wanton waste.




Yes, could work both ways. it’s risk over reward maybe some clash of perceptions and/ or A misinterpretation of value.

Ironically no on was looking for that domestic. Likely one of those covid pets that was dumped to feed the wolves.

Speaking of wolves, wonder how that has helped or hurt them. That was a change in the last twenty years. Any other big changes?

I wonder if that is a misprint for the south zone start date?

It was a misprint and has already been fixed as of this morning.

One would expect the wolves, doing what wolves do, has added to the WS workload. As far as beaver, I know wolves like there ponds and spend a lot of time around them in the winter. They are not alone as many species hang around the beaver.

Another change was the value of beaver.

It’s too bad hunters and trappers couldn’t work together a little. Let the deer population rebound when beaver prices are low. When beaver prices rise, increase pressure on the deer. Help the wolves cycle a little bit.

If the bear baiters get in on it, we would have lots of hungry mouths to feed.

So when do we find out the reported incidental numbers for the spring beaver dispersal? And the WS summer totals? And with the fact that we have already exceeded the “quota”, what’s the procedure moving forward?

WS reports their numbers at the DNR Furbearer meeting usually in late May. That is the one I posted the meeting minutes from. It is usually held up by Rhinelander if anyone wants to attend. Not sure if they report otters on calendar year or something else.

Only thing different for the WS guys is they won’t have two valid otter tags this spring. . lol.

I was curious how the state handled the perceived overharvest?