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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: Dirty D]
#8103601
03/19/24 05:47 PM
03/19/24 05:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,744
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,744
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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trouble with goats used in any natural area is they are going to eat pretty much everything including buckthorn and honeysuckle. The collateral damage would be horrific.
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Most perennials will come back. So if you want get rid of buckthorn its going to take several years of goats. And even then you'll have to treat the larger ones that the goats don't kill.
Then if your lucky after several years of goats tearing up your land and denuding it its wide open for all manner of invasive plants. Burdock, thistles and so forth.
No way I would ever put goats in a natural area. The only way was if I knew their food preference matched what I wanted to get rid of and then it would be only for short enough period of time so once they got rid of the targeted stuff they'd be pulled before they started on the rest of the stuff.
I'll stick to cutting a treating the stumps with herbicide. While it maybe more time consuming and more than likely more expensive it is the best way with no collateral damage.
I agree. I also have ginseng in my woods. I wouldn't want goats to eat that. It would take several years of goats eating the small plants before they would be eliminated because they will come back even after they've been eaten. I prefer to spray the new emerging plants and cutting the larger ones and painting the stumps with undiluted Crossbow.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: AJE]
#8103776
03/19/24 09:08 PM
03/19/24 09:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,941
east central WI
Dirty D
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,941
east central WI
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1 of the people at Saturday's River Country RC & D grazing conference said he gets a couple dozen baby goats each spring, lets 'em eat brush all summer & then makes a profit selling "em before winter for meat. and I'll bet his place is full of coarse invasive stuff, nothing of value, not a native plant other than what grows out of the reach of goats. No thanks, goats are bigger problem than they are a solution. If he just concerned about money and screw the place thats OK I guess as he owns it. Overgrazing causes real damage. Had a neighbor that grazed 4 horses in about 1 1/2 acre pasture. It looked horrible every year he had them on it. The grass was as short as any putting green except for the invasive weeds (Musk Thistle, burdock and few other lovelies that the horses wouldn't touch). When he moved out the pasture was a disaster area choked full of thistles, burdock, curly dock and on and on for at least 3 years. we moved after that point so I can't say how long it was destroyed. Look into some of the arid areas of the world that used to have lush growth till sheep and goats got cut loose and grazed full time. No thanks.
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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#8104252
03/20/24 11:58 AM
03/20/24 11:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,744
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,744
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and experience on what works for them. If goats are working for you, wonderful. Your before and after photos look good, but unless you have been using the goats for several years, your before photo will be a replay come spring. The plants in your photos are small plants. I have some plants that are 2-3 inches in diameter. One person I know who has used goats to control his buckthorn says goats don't get the larger plants. You have to take care of them yourself.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#8104255
03/20/24 12:02 PM
03/20/24 12:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,744
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,744
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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One other thing about buckthorn is that it's too bad there isn't a market for the wood. It really is a beautiful wood. One guy I knew made some really nice ornamentals out of it using a lathe.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: Trapper7]
#8111597
03/30/24 10:22 PM
03/30/24 10:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,105
WI - Wisconsin
AJE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,105
WI - Wisconsin
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One other thing about buckthorn is that it's too bad there isn't a market for the wood. It really is a beautiful wood. One guy I knew made some really nice ornamentals out of it using a lathe. It makes nice walking sticks. How much $ are goats selling for right now? I need to get some by June. My 5 acres is so overgrown that I would never be able to fix it myself even if I was retired. For the big stuff I have great success w/ cut stump treatment using Pathfinder II. For the little stuff, it's so thick I'd have to carpet bomb it w/ Roundup, which I won't do. Luckily the price of cattle panels has dropped from last year..$30 now for 16 footers. The experts have offered to do a formal grazing plan for me but I might (at least starting out) just try some test areas using their advice. Proper grazing is so important that WDNR has actually hired a full time statewide grazing expert.
Last edited by AJE; 03/30/24 11:02 PM.
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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: AJE]
#8111609
03/30/24 10:48 PM
03/30/24 10:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,585
MN
Donnersurvivor
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,585
MN
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One other thing about buckthorn is that it's too bad there isn't a market for the wood. It really is a beautiful wood. One guy I knew made some really nice ornamentals out of it using a lathe. It makes nice walking sticks. How much $ are goats selling for right now? I need to get some by June. My 5 acres is so overgrown that I would never be able to fix it even if I was retired. For the big stuff I have great success w/ cut stump treatment using Pathfinder II. For the little stuff, it's so thick I'd have to carpet bomb it w/ Roundup. Good boer goats are $3 lb. You can find pet quality goats pretty cheap, under $100 a head for someone's pet they got sick of and don't want to see butchered. They'll clear 5 acres faster than you think.
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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: AJE]
#8112348
04/01/24 09:14 AM
04/01/24 09:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,871
Greene County,Virginia
run
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,871
Greene County,Virginia
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One other thing about buckthorn is that it's too bad there isn't a market for the wood. It really is a beautiful wood. One guy I knew made some really nice ornamentals out of it using a lathe. It makes nice walking sticks. How much $ are goats selling for right now? I need to get some by June. My 5 acres is so overgrown that I would never be able to fix it myself even if I was retired. For the big stuff I have great success w/ cut stump treatment using Pathfinder II. For the little stuff, it's so thick I'd have to carpet bomb it w/ Roundup, which I won't do. Luckily the price of cattle panels has dropped from last year..$30 now for 16 footers. The experts have offered to do a formal grazing plan for me but I might (at least starting out) just try some test areas using their advice. Proper grazing is so important that WDNR has actually hired a full time statewide grazing expert. The price varies throughout the year here. During Ramadan the price tends to spike. You could sell to Jews if you don't like Muslims.
wanna be goat farmer.
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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: AJE]
#8112351
04/01/24 09:19 AM
04/01/24 09:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,871
Greene County,Virginia
run
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,871
Greene County,Virginia
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I don't know if I will feed 'em hay. In the winter I'll give them 'All Stock' pellets & maybe some sort of mineral block. I bet they would enjoy table scraps too Give them Redmond's salt or some brand of loose mineral. Salt blocks don't deliver the minerals fast enough.
wanna be goat farmer.
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Re: Goats and Buckthorn
[Re: AJE]
#8112380
04/01/24 10:02 AM
04/01/24 10:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,744
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,744
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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One other thing about buckthorn is that it's too bad there isn't a market for the wood. It really is a beautiful wood. One guy I knew made some really nice ornamentals out of it using a lathe. It makes nice walking sticks. How much $ are goats selling for right now? I need to get some by June. My 5 acres is so overgrown that I would never be able to fix it myself even if I was retired. For the big stuff I have great success w/ cut stump treatment using Pathfinder II. For the little stuff, it's so thick I'd have to carpet bomb it w/ Roundup, which I won't do. Luckily the price of cattle panels has dropped from last year..$30 now for 16 footers. The experts have offered to do a formal grazing plan for me but I might (at least starting out) just try some test areas using their advice. Proper grazing is so important that WDNR has actually hired a full time statewide grazing expert. Try using diluted Crossbow for the little stuff. It says on the insert it will only kill leafy plants, not grass. I've had good luck on the little, new growth. Round Up kills everything.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
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