Re: UVALDE
[Re: rex123]
#8099049
03/13/24 07:12 PM
03/13/24 07:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,650 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,650
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Explain how the investigation could clear the officers involved of any wrong doing? Negligent supervision.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: rex123]
#8099086
03/13/24 08:33 PM
03/13/24 08:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775
Green County Wisconsin
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they were following orders , the chief would be the one to go after for giving a bad order
I hope they all find work in other fields
not going in was not the right decision
was it criminally negligent ?
that is the hard one to prove that they knew more people would die if they didn't go in and when did the know it and what did they do once they knew , who knew ?
of course there is no duty to protect thus even if they stood there and watched the shooter going around shooting people through the window they still have no duty to breach.
a case where a guy was getting murdered on the other side of the door with a knife , the police waited till the killer left to go in and provide medical aid. courts ruled there is no duty to protect.
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/13/24 08:36 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#8099401
03/14/24 11:00 AM
03/14/24 11:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,243 Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,243
Ky
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they were following orders , the chief would be the one to go after for giving a bad order
I hope they all find work in other fields
not going in was not the right decision
was it criminally negligent ?
that is the hard one to prove that they knew more people would die if they didn't go in and when did the know it and what did they do once they knew , who knew ?
of course there is no duty to protect thus even if they stood there and watched the shooter going around shooting people through the window they still have no duty to breach.
a case where a guy was getting murdered on the other side of the door with a knife , the police waited till the killer left to go in and provide medical aid. courts ruled there is no duty to protect. Not know people where dying??? REALLY . The fact a small child was on the teachers phone crying telling the police that he was shooting more kids wasn't enough? What did they think he was shooting at in a locked classroom full of kids??? SQUIRRELS ??? IF THEY HAD NO DUTY to breach what was their duty . TO STOP THE DAD that wanted to but they hand cuffed him on the curb !!!! Pure (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) for those that wanted to do something.....
Last edited by jbyrd63; 03/14/24 11:01 AM.
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: Leftlane]
#8099500
03/14/24 01:30 PM
03/14/24 01:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,047 Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,047
Indiana
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I'm with ya Jbyrd. If you can't do your duty stand back so the next guy can. Holding parents back while not going is is the worst part. Would have caused me to be in prison or dead but sorry if death or incapacitation they would not have stopped me from getting to my kids. The corner could pick them or me up if they tried. It would be one way or the other. At that point they are an accomplice keeping people out so the perp can kill kids without fear or being slowed down.
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: jbyrd63]
#8099522
03/14/24 02:22 PM
03/14/24 02:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775
Green County Wisconsin
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they were following orders , the chief would be the one to go after for giving a bad order
I hope they all find work in other fields
not going in was not the right decision
was it criminally negligent ?
that is the hard one to prove that they knew more people would die if they didn't go in and when did the know it and what did they do once they knew , who knew ?
of course there is no duty to protect thus even if they stood there and watched the shooter going around shooting people through the window they still have no duty to breach.
a case where a guy was getting murdered on the other side of the door with a knife , the police waited till the killer left to go in and provide medical aid. courts ruled there is no duty to protect. Not know people where dying??? REALLY . The fact a small child was on the teachers phone crying telling the police that he was shooting more kids wasn't enough? What did they think he was shooting at in a locked classroom full of kids??? SQUIRRELS ??? IF THEY HAD NO DUTY to breach what was their duty . TO STOP THE DAD that wanted to but they hand cuffed him on the curb !!!! Pure (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) for those that wanted to do something..... technically to secure the crime seen and investigate. be angry at the courts , be angry that there is no duty to protect I am just stating the reality and in no way defending their actions or lack of actions. it was an explanation of why you won't see anyone charged. just the messenger here telling you why your seeing what your seeing. speak to your representatives about changing what is done for training , for response , we know a lot now and we know seconds are crucial old training was to wait for a team , I have no idea what they were thinking in Uvalde they had a team and still waited. that made no sense. the people if Uvalde need to make sure they are electing a Sherriff who will do what they want and make sure to pressure the mayor to fire the chief if he hasn't already stepped down. And hire a new chief that will staff up and train the way it should be. the issue is hiring anyone who wants to Cop right now is getting harder and harder then you have to vet them to make sure they should be a cop. get involved in your communities if you want to see them be different I have had this conversation with my local heads of LE we ran a multi department full scale training on our high school we had every agency that wanted to participate in the area even the FBI showed up. build the plan , train the plan and hope you never have to execute it but if you do know how much time it can take off to have a plan.
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/14/24 02:24 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: rex123]
#8099562
03/14/24 03:21 PM
03/14/24 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,846 KY.usa
rex123
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,846
KY.usa
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Just looked it up the motto for most police departments and academy's it is to PROTECT AND SERVE may the should stop and rewrite there litlle oath.
Last edited by rex123; 03/14/24 03:22 PM.
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: rex123]
#8099601
03/14/24 04:42 PM
03/14/24 04:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775
Green County Wisconsin
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yes and Marlboro was the doctors choice in cigarettes. Fat free cream replaces fat with high fructose corn syrup and a mess of chemicals most health food is laden with stuff that isn't health but is less unhealthy than they compared it to and the government is hear to help you , help you out of your tax dollars and your rights. this has been through the courts repeatedly if you don't like links this is the text of the article https://trafficlawguys.com/police-have-no-obligation-to-protect-citizens/ [quote]Many police forces even have a motto along the lines of “To Protect and Serve.” The unfortunate reality is that the police are under no obligation to protect you. The police do not even have an obligation to respond to your call for help.
The most well-known case on this topic is Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981). In short, four women lived in a boarding house. One lived on the 2nd floor with her 4 year old daughter, and two lived on the third floor. Two men broke into the house and proceeded to assault and rape the woman on the second floor. The women on the third floor, hearing the screaming and cries from the floor below, called the police and were assured help was on the way, only to watch the police drive by the house, knock on the door and leave when no one answered. The two women on the third floor then called the police (again) and were assured (again) that help was on the way. The police never came, but thinking the police might be in the house, the two women called out the the third woman being assaulted. This resulted in the two assailants becoming aware of the other women in the house. The assailants proceeded to kidnap the three adult women at knife point and rape and beat them for the next 14 hours.
The three women sued the District of Columbia based on numerous failures of the police department in this event, but their case was dismissed at the trial court level. The Supreme Court of the United States explained that it is a “fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.”
If the police have no duty or obligation to protect citizens, what is their purpose? [\quote]
a 2018 case claiming that the police had a duty to protect students as they were in an institution where the could not protect themselves https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-againyou have more rights in prison than you do out. if this should push for anything it would be that schools no longer be gun free zones for parents and legal guardians since there is no duty to protect , even when the institution and police enforce that you can not bring the tools of self protection with you , then there should be no law allowed to bar you from the tools of self protection.
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/14/24 04:44 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: jbyrd63]
#8099605
03/14/24 04:53 PM
03/14/24 04:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775
Green County Wisconsin
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But you didn't address my second question. IF THEY are not going to protect the kids why stop the parent that was going to do something? One thing about it doing NOTHING didn't work out too good for a lot of people. I will address it a second time to secure their crime scene the guys on the outside arresting fathers probably didn't know what the team gathered on the inside was not doing or many of them may have rushed in to breach.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: rex123]
#8099675
03/14/24 06:22 PM
03/14/24 06:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,591 Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,591
Kentucky
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In case y'all haven't figured this out, it was a setup just like Sandy Hook was.
Prove me wrong.
Member - FTA
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: rex123]
#8099815
03/14/24 09:23 PM
03/14/24 09:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,775
Green County Wisconsin
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call it BS all you want the reality is case after case the court states no duty
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/14/24 09:25 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: rex123]
#8099832
03/14/24 09:41 PM
03/14/24 09:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,969 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,969
williamsburg ks
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I dont understand why if a man is not willing to risk his life to save kids, stand down order or no order, why did he fill out the job application?????
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: UVALDE
[Re: rex123]
#8099915
03/14/24 11:57 PM
03/14/24 11:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,351 The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane
"HOSS"
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"HOSS"
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,351
The Hill Country of Texas
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I think your conceen is 100% legit Danny.
Speaking of this shooting, did it ever come out how this sicko came up with such nice gear? When it comes to smelly rats, there are more than one surrounding this tragedy.
“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.” Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
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