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Old Russ Carmen #8040111
01/04/24 04:26 PM
01/04/24 04:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Ohio
W
Willstoup Offline OP
trapper
Willstoup  Offline OP
trapper
W

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 89
Ohio
What exactly made the old stock of Russ Carmen’s famous Canine Call so great? Is there anything made now that is even in the same ball park?

Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8040827
01/05/24 12:26 PM
01/05/24 12:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,404
nebraska
S
scheide Offline
trapper
scheide  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,404
nebraska
According to Phil Brown, who used a lot of the canine call states that Circle Maker Magnum is pretty close to the old canine call.

Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8042220
01/06/24 09:46 PM
01/06/24 09:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 533
GA
C
canebrake Offline
trapper
canebrake  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 533
GA
Is the Canine Call that he makes now not the same stuff?

Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8042270
01/06/24 10:35 PM
01/06/24 10:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
He is not the one making it. Sterling Fur bought his formulas.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8044365
01/09/24 08:38 AM
01/09/24 08:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 508
Wyoming
E
E.J. Kelley Offline
trapper
E.J. Kelley  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 508
Wyoming
I had heard that Mike Maryada makes the Carmens line now for Keith. Anyone else know of this to be true? It seems very difficult to have the same lure turn out the same when two different people formulate it.

Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8044455
01/09/24 10:37 AM
01/09/24 10:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,596
SW Pa
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Bob Jameson Offline
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Bob Jameson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,596
SW Pa
There is no question about some products changing when formulated by someone other than the original producer. It can be expected. There are some variables or some details that can't be duplicated 100% by the new producer. Not to their fault. It is just how things can turn out.

You would hope that things would continue as you knew them to be, however this is not always the case.

Could be that a key ingredient may have changed or not available now, or a specific product made in house cannot be duplicated exactly the same. It happens.

There is a familiarity that the original producer has with everything that they have formulated. It is well beyond just an ingredient list.

It is the steps and order in which you are blending those ingredients and how long they must age that can make the end product what it is or should be.

Lure and bait making can be very detailed with some products. Each batch is a new beginning. Organic products, and some ingredients can change a little from one run to another.

Example:

A batch of glands aged a bit differently due to temps or another environmental condition. A base color varied a bit or an essential ingredient is not quite the same in odor now. Lots of variables that we must deal with at times more than we would like.

So, don't be too critical of who is making another's products without knowing the facts. Give them a chance to iron things out if that is possible.

Mike is a seasoned formulator, and I am sure he can do as good a job as any in reproducing a product line if all the original ingredients are still available to use.

If there was very little, to no hands-on training from the original producer in making each product therein lies a big challenge. The chances of a mirrored duplication of those products could be difficult to say the least. IMO

Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8044804
01/09/24 06:46 PM
01/09/24 06:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 508
Wyoming
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E.J. Kelley Offline
trapper
E.J. Kelley  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 508
Wyoming
Good information! And I certainly wasnt being critical of any one or thing. Just know that alot of things are variables especially when it comes to formulating.

Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8070199
02/06/24 07:58 AM
02/06/24 07:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,885
SE Kentucky
K
kytrapper Offline
trapper
kytrapper  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,885
SE Kentucky
If you trap long enough you’ll find some lures made by the same man a little different than say 20 years ago. I guess it depends some on the man. Nose aging varies between people. Whatever Bob says bank on it. 👍 I don’t know how these guys develop a lure line in a lifetime. Hats off to them.

Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8071799
02/08/24 11:26 AM
02/08/24 11:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 930
AR
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Preacherman Les Offline
trapper
Preacherman Les  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 930
AR
In the beginning Russ was still making them, but using Sterling (under contract) to be the sole distributor. Apparently this has changed to full ownership of the formulas?
This was a long time ago so I could be wrong or just bad memory.

Re: Old Russ Carmen [Re: Willstoup] #8072490
02/09/24 07:27 AM
02/09/24 07:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
You only need a few good scents. Not a drawer full. If you make them yourself the biggest problem is quality ingredients.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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