How many acres/how many trees?

You can get lowballed any way you sale logs.....percentage or not. Its all a gamble to an extent.

ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE way for a landowner to sell timber!

Round here loggers make an absolute mess out of properties. I hope they don't there!

if you have a good contract and the professional knowledge (consulting forester) and teeth (performance bond) to enforce it, your risks are SIGNIFICANTLY lowered!!

We had a Consulting Forester selectively mark and estimate the number of board feet of lumber in each tree he marked. Listed the market value of each species and the total value of board feet for each species. Estimated a fair market value of the standing timber at $94,000. Sent a nine page contract specifying how we expected work to be done, the time frame, and the inventory sheet out to 15 logging companies. Allowed the loggers 3 weeks to inspect the woods if they wanted to do so. Received 10 bids back ranging for $110,000 to $145,000. They winning bid pays 20% when signing the contract and the balance before they move on the property.

We also specified in the contract how we wanted the woods, landings, trails and drives to be taken care of when they were done.

Do it right and you won't be crying later.

I’m in the timber and land business. Like real estate, timber values are local and regional. Some areas grow certain species better than other areas. Here in PA timber markets are way down from two years ago, but a couple species are up slightly from where they were a few months ago, which is nice. Black walnut is almost always a high value species. Like any tree, quality and ease of extraction dictate what the buyers can afford to pay. Definitely solicit bids and make sure you have a written contract that spells out the terms and duties of the buyer.

Still waiting for White Fir to spike. And waiting lol.

A consult may be even more important for the tree planter.
The right mix for the turf.
Trees are cute when little.

GLWH

New here. Been watching the timber/logging posts for a long time. Finally decided to chime in. White Marlin, why the hostility towards logging on percentage? Pretty much every logger I know who is independent cuts on percentages. Bought my Skidder 19 years ago this coming July. Other than the 12-13 DCNR timber jobs my cousin and I bought every job I’ve ever done has been on percentage. Haven’t had a problem with a landowner yet. Haven’t had to look for work in 17 years. All word of mouth. Only cut part time on weekends and holidays when prices are good. Just curious if you had a bad experience?

oh, I can see why loggers like the percentage deal...no real risk on their part. (and this isn't about bashing loggers).

I am talking about from the landowners' perspective/interests. signing up for this type of contract requires absolute/complete trust in the people doing the work and those paying for the product, with very little to zero recourse.

The landowner is trusting the logger to tell him how many mbf's he cut/sold, what the quality of the logs are, how much the logger was paid by the mill, etc. etc.

some mills have better markets for some products than others...should the landowner be penalized with a lower check because that particular mill's market isn't the best?

an imperfect analogy: how about you sign over the title to that used Tacoma you have. I know a guy who's looking to buy one. And when I sell it, I'll give you half of the money I get for it. After all, I'll have some money in this too (transporting the truck to new buyer, new title work, etc.). I think you'll be happy. well, no...once you sign the title over to me, you'll have no say in the sale price. how about it?

just some of the reasons...

and that's just on the timber SALE end. if you're talking about long term forest MANAGEMENT, that gets into a whole nother aspect ...

Scaled/graded logs for a company after I got out of forestry school. Some loggers would ask for blank log slips but was company policy to not give out blank slips. Some loggers would change the log slips to show more softwood vs. hardwood. Percentage was 33% on hemlock/white pine and 50% on hardwood logs. Not the best way to sell timber.

Your analogy is crazy !!! Sign it over.
You do know the timber guys will sell it where they get the best price. 50% means more for them if they sell it for the highest price. There is a "bill of sale" for each log sold that any mill worth a hoot will provide . How do you think they know how much to pay both parties.You ever follow behind a load of logs? You see that bar code stapled to the end of each one. Well around here anyway.

my analogy isn't perfect, but it's not THAT far off...you've given the logger the right to cut and haul your trees, with no idea what you just sold them for. (he'll let you know later)

once the tree is cut and gone, you don't get a "do-over" or a "no-sale".

wouldn't it be better to KNOW what you're selling and for what price BEFORE the tree is severed from its roots and gone?

You can always have the buyers come out to the landing to quote a price,....... but you better have room to lay them out.

it's still [essentially] too late to "no sale" them; after they're at the landing.

if you've got buyers coming to the site anyway, how about they cruise the timber on the stump and submit their bids BEFORE they get a contract?

Your 100 % correct about once the logs leave the yard. I sell all my logs based on what buyer has the best prices at the time. First I sort out all the veneer possibilities and Danzer Veneer from reach road in Williamsport has a buyer that comes to the landing and picks out what he wants. Some days it’s 20 logs, some days it’s 2. 100 dollars more for the log gives me 35 bucks and the landowner 65. When cutting hard maple if it’s not good enough for veneer. Leather stocking out of New York will buy a lot of the good stuff on the landing for baseball bats. 60 to 80 cents better than a prime log price. Wagner lumber, Dwight Lewis and Two rivers is who I sell most of my logs too. They bring a truck with them and buy all the logs off the landing. They write me a separate check and the landowner a separate check on the spot. Don’t have to worry about w9 or 1099 with the landowner. I have the landowner on-site everytime I sell. If they don’t like the price or scale they can refuse to sell it and we can have someone else come. All 3 of these companies will print out a sheet showing every log, every species, how many board feet per log, price per log and average. My Skidder hasn’t ran in 14 months right now because timber prices are half what they were a year or 2 ago.

Most loggers are honest in their business dealings. A few are not. Down here it was once a common thing to pocket what they called a "stow load". This is where a load is hauled to a different mill and the landowner never knows about it. This isn't considered stealing, it just pays for equipment is their mentality.

Also, there have been cases of the loggers cutting a tract of their own timber at the same time that they are cutting yours. The mill will take their word for which tract it came from. Proving where a load came from later is extremely difficult.

Also, the loggers can sort poorly and put some higher value products on a lower value load and cost the landowner alot of money while theiy got an extra load out this week.

Or, a stand of timber can be high-graded and your future growth sold today for pennies on the dollar.

All these scenarios have happened. The first two are illegal, the second two are perfectly legal and happen every day.

My point was that the owner could get bids before they leave his property where any shady stuff could happen.Im not sure Im smelling what your stepping in? I dont care how a guy sells it, just saying that is an option.

I understood your point, and I'm not insinuating anything...other than once they're cut, you don't have a realistic option to NOT sell them to someone.

if bids are received for standing timber, the landowner knows the amount BEFORE the trees hit the duff and the logs are gone. they can make a better decision on whether or not to go through with the sale.

I agree, there are many other things that can go wrong doing it that way. I always paid cash up front. The last job I did was basically a salvage operation and I didnt want to tie up a penny on it. So I offered the landowner a percentage deal. Didnt have many people look at the pile, and was rather happy with the price paid.