Wasn't the first known slave owner in America also black?

Slavery was a way of life, all over the world, black, white, red, for most of human history.

So a bit on my military service. I served in the initial push with 4ID and was in Iraq 3 times. Each one I saw a people come out from under the burden of tyranny. Was I there because George Bush sent me, sure, did I see missiles and rockets, sure did, Were they weapons of mass destruction, that could have taken out my folks, yep. So I do feel justified being there. It was an honor. I liberated them. And I am glad we did it. I do know for a fact the government lies. I am a firm believer in "If you thought the problems the government caused were bad, wait till you see their solutions." I know for a fact any private entity can do virtually anything better than the government. I was also in Afghanistan and was part of a task force that was going to improve their telecommunication infrastructure. I am certain that we would have succeeded had the Grifter in chief not pulled my brothers and sisters out. I love this land. I know that the people in it are blessed to be so abundant and prosperous. I know there is an opportunity to give back, but the solution lies not in the state but in the people themselves. When I say I hate the concept of slavery, I mean it. In all its forms. It still goes on to this day. Mostly in the form of sex trafficking. I am a libertarian by nature but a humane one with deep-seated unapologetic Catholic Christian values.

Forgive my pontification Swamp but I am very proud of who I am and what I bled for.

JC

So by your measure, veterans of the Revolutionary War were also traitors.
I mean, after all the good King did for them, those lousy ingrates...

Bingo

Some day people might look back on what he fought for and want his memorials removed....... Time and place seems to be lost in history.

Let's take the RW as an example and try to find the cause for a "just war". Take into account that the RW was fought after extensive diplomatic missions had failed, and that the war was a last resort to expel unfair colonial-style rule. In essence, it makes a class of people subservient to another group. Sound familiar. The liberation of a group of people was the final rallying cry of the Union. It was codified by the toothless document known as the Emancipation Proclamation. So seeing as how yes there were awful people who owned r@ped, and persecuted other humans they deemed as their property, the necessary horror that was War was as just as war can be.

J.C.,
No need to ask for forgiveness for expressing your personal beliefs. They're your's. And my beliefs are mine.

We obviously have a very different view about the reasons the Civil War was fought. You're not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change your's.

Confederate soldiers that died fighting for what they believed in at the time are due some respect. Comparing them to Nazis and supporting removal of their statues & monuments is a disgusting way to face our American history.

J.C.

Name direct ancestors and kin that served, the units they were in and the battle record of said units.

When you can do that then maybe you can understand and honestly discuss the real reasons men fought and died.

Our nation did a horrendous job during Reconstruction. It built no bridges, forged no bonds, and had no impact other than anger and resentment. The actual soldiers were the only ones who forgave any of it and that comes with being a warrior. The state of our black brothers and sisters is still relevant in today's culture. Their space in our society is not what it should be. A great book on the variations in our America is American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America The book looks at how we were settled as a nation, some positives, some not so positives, but it puts no spin in the first chapters on who we are and where we came from. We can only repair the wounds we are willing to. Never forget history. I am adamant about not removing statues from battlefields. That is for historical reasons.

No different than ISIS destroying antiquities. Just as rabid.

JC, care to share your values on forgiveness? To hold bitterness towards common soldiers of a bygone era seems detrimental to ones walk.

I once did some research into two original sources of evidence for the cause of the Civil War.

If you want to know, without adding revisionist history, go read 1) the southern states' intent, as evidenced by their bills of succession in their legislatures; and 2) Southern newspaper editorials and articles of the time. They disclose--a dangnation for all of posterity--the true cause of the CW:

SLAVERY!

Some people use the code-words "states' rights," forgetting that the state's right their ancestors cared about was the right to keep black human beings as property.

Go, JC! Don't let them get away with it. Don't let them forget.

JIm

I would indeed. Forgiveness starts within. We have to forgive our hearts for hatred. Second, let us forgive as we would like God to forgive us. We must forgive our fellow brothers and sisters infinitely. We must instruct them on the error of their ways. Can I say I "forgive" the soldiers who fought for states to have the right to own people sure I do. Do I think we need their monuments honoring them in effigy, absolutly not. They are monuments to America's original sin.

No one seems to have a problem ot talk about how we Backes and put Sadam in power. We also set him up telling him we have no b intrest in regional conflict like his and Kuwait. Since he invaded then we attacked him. He was a good guy untill he started paying off his debts and selling his oil in a way he was told not to. Then he was a bad guy.

So you forgive the soldiers, yet a monument honoring these soldiers is unforgivable? Can't wrap my brain around that.

OK. Can you wrap your mind around the fact that these people fought and died so that their society, as written in their constitution, would allow people to be owned? Does that mean anything to you? Let's start there.

Well...JC and James are on the same page....lol

Your brain washed. Very few that fought owned slaves. Most were poor white farmers protecting the over reach the north was pushing. When my home is attacked I will defend it. You also seem to think they were well informed and educated . There were only news papers. News was slow and a very large part of the population could not read.

You are ok with killing Iraqis and afghans becuse you government said they are bad. But that same goverment is who backed them and helped put them in power to begin with. They were not bad untill they quit following instructions.

The people doing the killing and dieing are not the ones that make the decisions. They are just the pawns. I'm sure if you and those soldiers in other uniforms are more alike than different and only kill each other becuse you are told to. If my family or country is directly attacked I will kill them . But not a thing in the last few wars had protected our country or people. It's been nothing but powered and profits. But tell yourself whatever you need to. Geting rid of Sadam created a power vacume and created a lot of problems for the people.

What does a monument honoring fallen soldiers have to do with any of that? Does the word confederate offend you?

It's OK, in 100 years the JCs of that time will dig up JC's bones, smash his headstone, and level the area, as he was an anti Muslim bigot, who.went halfway around the world to slaughter innocent practitioners of the religion of peace.


Trying to view yesterday's events with today's lens is foolish.
Judging them by today's standards, well...

Great short post... hit the nail on the head.

What JC can't seem to understand is that those were different times. Owning slaves was common in many places besides just the southern US. Many people honestly believed that black people didn't even have souls... that they were a substandard species just a step above a caveman. They didn't consider them human beings in the sense they viewed white people. They viewed them more as livestock. Is that right? Of course not but it was how things were seen at that point of time in history.

JC is viewing things as people in today's world would view them, not as they were actually viewed back then.

But even still, why would people who never owned a slave and never would own one voluntarily rush to fight this war? Do you think they cared if Mr. Moneybags plantation owner lost his slaves? Of course not. They fought because they didn't want the Federal government to strip away states' rights. Alas, the Confederacy lost the war, and the Federal government has been trampling states' rights ever since.