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Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: The Beav] #8024124
12/18/23 04:49 PM
12/18/23 04:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,430
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,430
east central WI
Originally Posted by The Beav
I'm no fan of the offset jawed trap.

There's NO CIRCULATION In a critters foot with any trap. The foot swells up and that's all she rote. A critter chews on It's feet because there Is no circulation and no feeling.
The difference In the lock up factor between offset and a closed jaw trap In so minimal It dosen't make any difference.
I don't understand outside lams. When the trap goes off on the foot the Inside bottom edge of the trap jaw Is the tightest on the foot. Inside lams will help In this situation.
Swiveling will help with ligament and tendon damage but I don't see It helping with foot damage.


I mis remembered on the lam's, the #2s are INside laminated. Here's a pic.

[Linked Image]

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024130
12/18/23 04:59 PM
12/18/23 04:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,884
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,884
Wisconsin
That will work.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024131
12/18/23 05:01 PM
12/18/23 05:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,023
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R Offline
trapper
8117 Steve R  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,023
Wisconsin
I have no where near the experience as Swamp Wolf nor have I had to consider damage for live markets. But in my experience for fur trapping the differences between closed and open is insignificant compared to differences in swiveling and use or non use of shock springs. Three or four swivels (6 or 8 j hooks) and shock springs are easier on feet. And a 24 hour check.


Steve
WTA
NRA
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024135
12/18/23 05:09 PM
12/18/23 05:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,884
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,884
Wisconsin
10" of chain with 3 swivels dosen't let the critter get much of running start. So you have minimum foot damage. I don't see where a shock spring makes any difference In this situation.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024139
12/18/23 05:12 PM
12/18/23 05:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 220
Ohio
B
bleeohio Offline
trapper
bleeohio  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 220
Ohio
We'll have to agree to disagree on the swiveling not helping with foot damage. Back when we used to have a good amount of fox here, both red and gray, i learned early on that once the chain bound up and they kept twisting and rolling that's when bad things happened. Once i started adding more swiveling points, it was a whole lot easier on the feet. Again, i use both os and non os jaw traps and can't say one is better than the other as i've had pullouts in both. Most likely due to operator error.

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024144
12/18/23 05:16 PM
12/18/23 05:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,023
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R Offline
trapper
8117 Steve R  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,023
Wisconsin
I think the foot has less tendancy to slide when the critter jumps if the spring absorbs the shock. Having said that, I only have them on half my traps. I also think a wolf can pull out easier if there is NO shock spring. Just my observations.


Steve
WTA
NRA
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024146
12/18/23 05:18 PM
12/18/23 05:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,740
Wisconsin
Scott__aR Offline
trapper
Scott__aR  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,740
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by k snow
Been getting a little more serious about canine trapping. I am running a mix of modified Duke 1.75's, 2's and MB 550's. All closed jaw. The dukes are out side laminated. I'm noticing the 550s are a little rough on feet, at times. Would offset jaws help with this? The traps have the stock chain, plus a swivel, 10 more inches of chain and a swivel at the double stake attachment. Mainly targeting coyotes, with the occasional fox. I've read that coon can pull out of the offsets, not too concerned with that, in today's market, but may weigh into my decision on what to buy more of.

Any input is appreciated.


You didn't say whether the 550s were 2 or 4 coiled ... You don't need 4 coils to hold coyotes with a 550. But you may want 4 coils if your coming up thru frozen cover.

Offset jaws are not the best choice for clamping on to tapered feet; but coyotes don't have tapered feet. Offset jaws will allow higher levers which generally means a better lockup based on lever/jaw geometry. Closed jaws will actually have slightly more force with the lower level position. As an all purpose trap I would go with a closed jaw trap.

All my canine traps are set up having a swivel at the center d-ring, enough chain to add a second swivel just outside of the frame (3-4 links > cut the standard supplied chain in half), attached the other half of chain and supplied swivel to the second swivel, then add whatever termination desired: shock spring, extension, or/and anchor hardware. Multiple swivels near the trap (3 or more) reduce foot damage better than jaw type in my opinion.


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Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024153
12/18/23 05:28 PM
12/18/23 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,077
East Central Wi.
coyote addict Offline
trapper
coyote addict  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,077
East Central Wi.
All my 550s are closed jaw, 3 swivels , set up for double staking. I had a dozen that were 4 coiled , didn't take long to take the 2 extra coils off. 4 coils unnecessary in our part of the country.. I have switched over to all 550 closed jaw traps for Coyote.


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A Shotgun. A Rifle and a 4 Wheel Drive.. A Country Boy. Will Survive
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024156
12/18/23 05:29 PM
12/18/23 05:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,884
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
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T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,884
Wisconsin
I looked at a few shock springs and I don't see where a fox could close that spring. And I'm not sure a coyotes could when you have a short chain set up. You also have to consider the weight of the trap hanging on to that foot that will cause foot damage.

When i trapped for the live market I used 175 Dukes with Inside lams.
There were no coyotes only reds and greys.
I found that soft catch traps cut off circulation more then a closed jaw laminated trap. That rubber kind of warped around the whole foot. And that gave me more dead footed fox. Those fox were held by the buyer for awhile before being released In the pen.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024185
12/18/23 06:10 PM
12/18/23 06:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 3,833
Wisconsin
G
Guss Offline
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Guss  Offline
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Posts: 3,833
Wisconsin
I use close Jaws and don't worry about feet damage.

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: Guss] #8024216
12/18/23 06:40 PM
12/18/23 06:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,430
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,430
east central WI
Originally Posted by Guss
I use close Jaws and don't worry about feet damage.


I use the hides for craft work, having good feet is important to me.

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024243
12/18/23 07:01 PM
12/18/23 07:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 533
GA
C
canebrake Offline
trapper
canebrake  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 533
GA
I have JCs shock springs on all of my canine traps. I like them and I personally wouldn't set a foothold trap without one.

I don't think they help with foot damage. But they might help with shoulder damage and toe catches.

The main thing they do is keep pressure off the trap and stake. JCs have a 75 pound pull so that's 75 pounds of pressure taken off that trap and stake.

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024284
12/18/23 07:32 PM
12/18/23 07:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 220
Ohio
B
bleeohio Offline
trapper
bleeohio  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 220
Ohio
I've never tried the shock springs. I'm a shortchainer with most of that being swivels so they don't have any room to get a running start. Not sure if i would benefit from the ssprings. I do think that live market trapping is a whole different ball game and if i did that i'm sure i would try whatever i had to to get good results.

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024287
12/18/23 07:34 PM
12/18/23 07:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,894
Frazee, MN
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backroadsarcher Offline
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Frazee, MN
I have both and they both work as long as you are targeting canines. Mine are 2 coiled.

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024324
12/18/23 08:02 PM
12/18/23 08:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 623
Wisconsin
L
Lance Squires Offline
trapper
Lance Squires  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 623
Wisconsin
I use the MB-550's wih the offset. Absolutely love them.


57 years trapping. It's who I am. Every day is still as exciting as it was when I was a kid but a little more work.
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024344
12/18/23 08:17 PM
12/18/23 08:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 534
Pennsylvania
K
Keystonekiller Offline
trapper
Keystonekiller  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 534
Pennsylvania
I've played with a few brand traps an offset or not the 550s they just pretty much bed themselves something to consider for k9 trapping all trapping for that matter

Last edited by Keystonekiller; 12/18/23 08:18 PM.
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024771
12/19/23 07:24 AM
12/19/23 07:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 154
CONNEAUT LAKE, PENNSYLVANIA
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BRONZEBACK Offline
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BRONZEBACK  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 154
CONNEAUT LAKE, PENNSYLVANIA
Closed Jaw...I add a mid-chain swivel.


"Life's Too Short To Put A Price On Fun"
Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024792
12/19/23 07:50 AM
12/19/23 07:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,507
Pennsylvania
elsmasho82 Offline
trapper
elsmasho82  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,507
Pennsylvania
In addition, a little off topic, but why are the 450’s called cast jaws and the much bigger ones called laminated. Is it basically the same concept? One can clearly see that they both have wide closures

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: k snow] #8024866
12/19/23 09:34 AM
12/19/23 09:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 871
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 871
Northern WI
That’s why some say teeth are more humane, foot can’t slide and a small wound to reduce swelling. But they look and sound bad to the bunny huggers.

Re: 550, closed or offset [Re: Yes sir] #8024872
12/19/23 09:36 AM
12/19/23 09:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,589
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
trapper
ky_coyote_hunter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,589
Kentucky
Originally Posted by Yes sir
OS "look" more humane

^ Right here is the real answer....Never owned a OS trap, never will.


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