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Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961406
09/30/23 12:38 PM
09/30/23 12:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,753
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,753
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Mando
Originally Posted by Garryowen
I used to work with auto engineers. I helped launch the Ford Expedition. They told me that they design for the ease of manufacture, not repair.

Garryowen

Using reverse engineering. Easy to build should be easy to take apart. Lol


nope it is easier to put bolts in from the inside to the outside as you build the chassis that way the impact wrench is on the outside on the nut
but then the gas tank goes in as the next step so sure it would be easy if the gas tank wasn't in the way

zip that nut off , but have to cut the bolt or remove the gas tank because there is not room


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961407
09/30/23 12:38 PM
09/30/23 12:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,104
St. Louis Co, Mo
B
BigBob Offline
trapper
BigBob  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,104
St. Louis Co, Mo
OR: Remove the bed on a PU Truck to get at the fuel pump, or make the Zerks, (grease fittings) Physically IMPOSSIBLE to get at! That's why Machinist's and Mechanics DETEST engineers!


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: T-Rex] #7961429
09/30/23 01:20 PM
09/30/23 01:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,380
East Texas
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BTLowry Offline
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BTLowry  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,380
East Texas
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
Originally Posted by Mando
Who designs a vehicle where removal of intake is required to change spark plugs? Idiots.


neighbors nephew is a mechanic was in a meeting with some auto company engineers and his co-workers , some of the guys are griping about how hard it is to work on some of these new ones , before the meeting starts and they are supposed to be on the same team.

one of the engineers states very mater a fact "WE ARE NOT IN THE BUISSSNESS OF REPAIRING CARS" then no more is said


let that sink in , they are NOT in the business of repairing cars at the manufacture even if the tech at the dealership is

thus everything is from the mindset of make it last longer than the warrantee and who cares if it can be fixed , the auto company doesn't make money fixing cars it makes it selling you a new one.


The bold above is false
Dealerships make more on repairs (body and mechanical work) than selling a car. Also selling tires, oil changes and various other "service" work.
I have known a few general managers and all told me the same thing.
For example, there is a book that gives repair times for certain things. Let's say for a plug change for a V6 F150 it states 4hrs. Now let's say the average Ford mechanic can do the job in 2.25 hrs. Guess how much labor you pay for? 4 hrs
That is why when I do need to pay someone to fix my stuff it is either an independent OR warranty work


Originally Posted by T-Rex
Whine all you want. Cars these days are much better than ever before. Sure some maintenance is more difficult, but consider the mileage and intervals.

If you don't like it move to Cuba, where they are still running classic1957 Chev's.



Originally Posted by T-Rex
Originally Posted by Mando
Who designs a vehicle where.....
Beancounters!

As for idiots; It is more likely to be the whiney consumer that the engineering team.


Auto engineer per chance?

And I know too many folks with new cars with problems to fall for "newer is better" so I will keep driving my 99 Tacoma

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961440
09/30/23 01:39 PM
09/30/23 01:39 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 837
Illinois
D
DRF Offline
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DRF  Offline
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D

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 837
Illinois
4 hours labor mechanic does it in 2.5 hours so is 1.5 hours ahead in pay for the day. This is a good incentive for them, however the rushing to get a job done and onto the next not so good for the guy who’s car is being worked on.

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: T-Rex] #7961522
09/30/23 04:10 PM
09/30/23 04:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,104
St. Louis Co, Mo
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BigBob Offline
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BigBob  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,104
St. Louis Co, Mo
Originally Posted by T-Rex
. If you don't like it move to Cuba, where they are still running classic1957 Chev's.

They ain't running them, they're just sitting, rusting, waiting for parts they can't get!


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: DRF] #7961530
09/30/23 04:23 PM
09/30/23 04:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,788
Beatrice, NE
L
loosegoose Offline
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loosegoose  Offline
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L

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,788
Beatrice, NE
Originally Posted by DRF
4 hours labor mechanic does it in 2.5 hours so is 1.5 hours ahead in pay for the day. This is a good incentive for them, however the rushing to get a job done and onto the next not so good for the guy who’s car is being worked on.

At the same time, if a rusted bolt snaps, and the repair turns into a 3 day ordeal, the customer is still only paying for 4 hours of labor.

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961537
09/30/23 04:39 PM
09/30/23 04:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,775
West Virginia,age 49
cathryn Offline
bvr-takr-upr
cathryn  Offline
bvr-takr-upr

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,775
West Virginia,age 49
Originally Posted by Mando
Who designs a vehicle where removal of intake is required to change spark plugs? Idiots.


I bet it was a man,lol grin


IF IDIOTS GREW ON TREES THIS PLACE WOULD BE AN ORCHARD !

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: loosegoose] #7961541
09/30/23 04:48 PM
09/30/23 04:48 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 837
Illinois
D
DRF Offline
trapper
DRF  Offline
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D

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 837
Illinois
Originally Posted by loosegoose
Originally Posted by DRF
4 hours labor mechanic does it in 2.5 hours so is 1.5 hours ahead in pay for the day. This is a good incentive for them, however the rushing to get a job done and onto the next not so good for the guy who’s car is being worked on.

At the same time, if a rusted bolt snaps, and the repair turns into a 3 day ordeal, the customer is still only paying for 4 hours of labor.

Bet that happens often

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: cathryn] #7961548
09/30/23 04:59 PM
09/30/23 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,024
MD
D
DaveP Offline
trapper
DaveP  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,024
MD
Originally Posted by cathryn
Originally Posted by Mando
Who designs a vehicle where removal of intake is required to change spark plugs? Idiots.


I bet it was a man,lol grin



Girl was too busy hiding the starter...

[Linked Image]

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: cathryn] #7961557
09/30/23 05:32 PM
09/30/23 05:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,492
WI
M
Mando Offline OP
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Mando  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,492
WI
Originally Posted by cathryn
Originally Posted by Mando
Who designs a vehicle where removal of intake is required to change spark plugs? Idiots.


I bet it was a man,lol grin

Lol. I bet you're right.

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961621
09/30/23 07:18 PM
09/30/23 07:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,462
Michigan
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Garryowen Offline
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Garryowen  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,462
Michigan
When the Plymouth Prowler was assembled the aluminum frame was first on the cart. The next part was the brake lines. I remember that because when I was a kid they would rust out and it was hard to replace some of them.

Garryowen

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961630
09/30/23 07:25 PM
09/30/23 07:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,872
meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
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E

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,872
meadowview, Virginia
On my 2017 Jeep Wrangler Sport the headlights come on when the key is turned to auxiliary and stay on until the engine starts. How stupid is that? Extra load on the battery with every start for no good reason. Intentional additional stress on the battery. I am trying to get in the habit of turning the lights on and then off before starting to defeat that design feature.

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961633
09/30/23 07:28 PM
09/30/23 07:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
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Gary Benson Offline
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Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
The idea is for a person to not be able to work on his own car. They want you to pay $200/hr labor to a dealership


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961651
09/30/23 08:10 PM
09/30/23 08:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,462
Michigan
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Garryowen Offline
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Garryowen  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,462
Michigan
When I was a kid. We had to change out the points and condenser, clean and gap the plugs and adjust the timing four times a year. With fuel injection and electronic ignition, I can't remember the last time I did it.

So maintenance has been greatly reduced. However, a Dodge Journey requires removing a lot of parts just to change the battery out.

Garryowen

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961653
09/30/23 08:23 PM
09/30/23 08:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,492
WI
M
Mando Offline OP
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Mando  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 1,492
WI
I found two f150's from the mid 90's. No rust and under 100,000 miles. I'm not a Ford guy but I might just have to buy one.

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961658
09/30/23 08:26 PM
09/30/23 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,946
Oakland, MS
Drifter Offline
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Drifter  Offline
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Posts: 11,946
Oakland, MS
2000 Tundra hid their starter under the intake.


Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.

Andrew Lang (1844-1912) Scottish poet, novelist and literary critic









Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .
Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961702
09/30/23 09:56 PM
09/30/23 09:56 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,129
alabama
BandB Online content
trapper
BandB  Online Content
trapper

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,129
alabama
He said the auto company makes money selling, not fixing. That's different from the dealer, which you referenced.

Re: Auto engineers not very intelligent [Re: Mando] #7961711
09/30/23 10:23 PM
09/30/23 10:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,490
Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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Posts: 2,490
Idaho

let that sink in , they are NOT in the business of repairing cars at the manufacture even if the tech at the dealership is

thus everything is from the mindset of make it last longer than the warrantee and who cares if it can be fixed , the auto company doesn't make money fixing cars it makes it selling you a new one.


The bold above is false
Dealerships make more on repairs (body and mechanical work) than selling a car. Also selling tires, oil changes and various other "service" work.
I have known a few general managers and all told me the same thing.
For example, there is a book that gives repair times for certain things. Let's say for a plug change for a V6 F150 it states 4hrs. Now let's say the average Ford mechanic can do the job in 2.25 hrs. Guess how much labor you pay for? 4 hrs
That is why when I do need to pay someone to fix my stuff it is either an independent OR warranty work

The AUTO COMPANY doesn't make money fixing cars. The dealership does, but other than their need for someone to sell the cars they make, the auto companies could care less about the dealership and how they make their money. Once the car is sold and any warranty they might give (not some third party extended warranty) is up, they could care less about the car. Unless it is absolute pile of crap compared to its competition, which will hurt future sales, they really don't care. And it has to be a pretty big pile of crap to get most people to switch brand loyalty, so even piles of crap sell, just at a little lower volume.

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