Hey knowledgeable folks of the bait and lure section of Trapperman. I am just entering the research phase of bait and lure making. I recently picked up a small little R.E. Burt Lure book and a Kaatz Bait and Lure book. I’ve also seen online different Nelson bait formulas and entry level basic starting off bait formulas. I often see asafetida, valerian, skunk essence, or even urines in some. My question is this…is the purpose of commercial bait to be something the coyote wants to eat or are u just wanting to attract them? Do coyotes like the taste and actually want to eat skunk essence or asafetida? Or is it acting more like a lure at that point? I always thought a lure to get them to the set and then a bait (something they want to eat) to get the working and wanting what’s there, not filling their nose and satisfying their curiousity and leaving. I’ve seen asafetida, valerian, skunk, etc in lures as well so if ur bait has skunk, valerian, etc and ur lure has skunk, valerian, etc. could that be too much stimulus causing coyote to be unsure or nervous about what’s going on with so much odor going on with lure used along side a bait that’s full of scents as well? Should a guy use a more simple or palatable bait when using lure, use just a commercial bait that’s basically acting as a lure with all these different scents and no lure or am I missing something and tons to learn all together yet haha thanks sorry for the long post!

For the most part the things added to a "prepared" bait is to add increase attraction.
I doubt most secondary ingredients add to the "taste" of a prepared bait.
It can be argued a prepared bait could fall into the lure category.
Based off my experience the palatablity of a prepared or lure is not a concern for me. Probably be different if I was running getters or making a formulation for getters. They don't have to want to eat what's at the set to work it.
As far as what works best for you in your area and on your coyotes that's were experience comes into play a bit. Coyotes are the best teachers. Not all lures and baits work the same way and not all coyotes work the same way.
My line of thinking is most coyotes approach a set with caution and I want something good enough that makes them over come their caution. Food by itself in a spoonful or 2 amount doesn't do that consistently enough for me all of the time. Though I have found a few food items that are pretty good together.
You can use some of the "lure" ingredients and in the right amounts they can increase the the attraction and not hurt the palatablity of formulation too much. Sometimes other reactions will cause them to work a set harder than hunger.
My 2 cents

I dont generally use a lure at a baited set regardless. I use bait and good urine. Sometimes that is a prepared bait and sometimes just a chunk of meat. If I add a lure its some sort of gland. I think people get too hung up on bait/lure definition. I think a commercially prepared bait could be considered a lure, but you give it to them in quantities that are more attractive than a pea sized spot of lure that most use. Regardless, I personally want something that is going to create the most attraction at a set no matter the coyotes mood so I prefer the prepared baits to the simple natural baits.

As for palatibility of ingredients, Im guessing most wont take away from the general taste of a bait that has a base of meat and natural animal oils. Valerian is an ingredient that can be used in human food. It has a sweet smell. Skunk is probably used in small enough quantities to not make a huge difference. Something like beaver sac oil isnt palatable from what I have seen, but once again is used in small enough quantities it probably doesnt take away from the overall bait taste. Castor seems to be eaten very quickly if you leave it in tact on a beaver carcass in the woods.

This is just the opinion of an uneducated, wannabe, bait formulator so take everything with a grain of salt

Though I don’t make baits or lures I do know that for me, the highlighted part of your reply is on the money! Many have argued with me that a scent can’t change a coyote’s mood but I’ve proved it many times on video that it can certainly be done and it’s the key I look for when testing. Many scent manufacturers “think” their bait or lure can but the vast majority can’t do it but a small few can.

As far as the bait being palatable, I could care less! I don’t care if the coyote’s brain tells it to dig so it can roll on the bait or eat the bait because the coyote is suppose to be in the trap before either action is taken. IMHO and experience, it’s all about changing the mood, the “slap along side their heads” into a heightened state of desire, Like they need it, want it, gotta have it type of desire.

There are trappers, probably adc trappers who target & trap single coyotes, well that is my normal trapping. More often than not I’m targeting a single coyote usually on travelways so I can’t afford to miss it on it’s next cycle through which could take weeks. I don’t know it’s state of mind but if I want to catch that 1 particular coyote I need an attractant that will reach out and slap it alongside it’s head and quickly create a mood of high desire. This is what I call “gleaning” coyote and it takes a great, mood altering attractant in order to do this consistently.

Thanks for all the reply’s, very interesting to hear different views on the matter. Turns out I wasn’t too far off in my thinking these commercial baits are basically a lure. I’ve learned there is lots of filtering thru the misinformation in the trapping world. I’m onto analyzing baits and lures and putting more thought into what I’m using and why I’m using it when it comes to bait, lure, and urine. Thanks for the input on what u guys look for and expect out of a bait or lure. Makes sense it doesn’t matter what it is as long as it’s catching or getting a response. Time to find out for myself and do some testing!

Not all the time. For example, in the ADC field, when we are dealing with out-of-season work, we find that adding a little taste to the already palatable bait will many times make the control job go smoother, especially with the fox. Way back in the 1980s, When I started making my line of baits and lures, the reason was for my control jobs where the proven products for cold weather trapping were not working when dealing with human predator conflicts. Testing I could take a chunk of beaver and take a chunk of steak that was left over from the dinner last night, and the K9 would always take the cooked human steak. Add some mashed potatoes, and that would also be gone also. So that is why in 1987, I came out with my line of taste baits and lures. I made my baits and lures for my myJobs at first, and then I brought them out to the public ten years later. Here are some things you can try to see my position. Take your dog's food next to it. Take a cooked piece of bacon. And then take some mashed potatoes fixed the way you like to eat them, add a little brown or chicken gravy, put them out side by side, and see what happens as to what the dog eats first. Next, go out now here in the heat, where you have coyotes or foxes coming consistently. Take your beaver meat fresh and place it in a hole. Next, take cooked bacon and place it in another hole. Take a piece of beaver and fry it in bacon grease. Place it in the third hole. Do both tests a few times to see what conclusion you come up with. I did each test ten times, and for the coyote/fox test, I did it in 10 different spots to come up with the conclusion. As a side note, I have found that the ADC baits with taste prove to work just as well in the back forty in the winter on the trap line. But adding taste to your baits will increase your time and cost to produce your finished products. I also had to force myself to test with the mindset of only seeing what happens, and not try to prove a point to myself.

You nailed it Ron as always.

What confuses me I've tested quite a bit of cooked steak trimmings and scraps / fat from roast as we cook a lot of both and as stated the dog goes crazy for it, but I dont think in all my testing I could get a coyote to dig for them but any of my formulations I trap with in fall and winter will pretty consistently get dug even in summer. Not trying to cause strife but rather just sharing my experience. No trapping for me for the most part in summer just testing but I feel reasonable good in the idea if a coyote will dig for one and not the other the one he digs for has more attraction. I wish it worked got here because id have a good supply for at least my personal use.Again just what I've seen myself.

I will say bacon does have a good amount of intrest though

I have had very good field results from basically all the raw and cooked red/white meats, including all poultry. The cooked and seasoned meats/scrapes and fat trimmings always caught consistently. Fried items in grease or cooking oils always got interest.

A good trapper from Maine who has been discussed here off and on a few times has discussed with me vienna sausages on his line. He also uses a variety of lures and baits that he makes. He is a good trapper and knows how to roll for fox and coyote.

Jonesie a question, are you TDHP Wildlife Control?

They are different folks.

Thanks Paul

Me too Bob , when I have used table scraps for bait or pre bait I get more digging response than anything I have ever used. If I have a problem with a coyote not stopping to check out my set I can put out some scraps and its only a matter of time and they will check it out.

Why not start with food scraps first? I'd be in heaven if food scrap were the best thing I've tested. Save a ton of time and money and learning chemistry. Lol

I find it interesting how we see some different reactions. I don’t think I can recall ever seeing much if any interest in raw or cooked products here. Not that I’ve gone thru extensive list of them but table scraps or raw meats get about same response and that’s basically not very much interest.

Not sure why but as Seldom eludes to we have few critters particularly in the main trapping time. By then the thermal crew has been shooting everything all summer /fall and everybody has watched a YouTube video and is trying to trap something. And food is usually in endless supply. Maybe all that contributes. It can also be a challenge to put something in front of critter here as it could be 10-14 days before you see a visit. Even when that comes together its likely fir that critter to stall out and move a touch farther downwind vs deciding to look for a food morsel or average curiosity smell. Or at least that’s been my observations

The road is long, with many a winding turn,,,,.

No, I am ACP Wildlife Control Services and ACP / REDNECKS Pride Outdoors,

Adding taste is not always putting something into or on the base. If you take raw beef, chicken, or pork, it tastes different than when we put it on a hot plate or microwave and cook it without anything added. Cooking brings out the sugars and fats so that our human taste buds can taste them.

Here is another let's see what happens that you can do. Take whatever meat you want that you know works in your area. Cube or grind it and add your preservative fresh. Break it up into three portions. One portion is placed in the refrigerator to cure and stabilize. One portion is placed in a hot box that gets 100 to 120 degrees consistent until cured and stabilized. And the last portion just set out in the open to get the high temps, low temps sun, clouds rain until cured and stabilized. Take them out and put them side by side, and see what happens.

Thanks for taking the time to answer!