buffalo gnats killing em

We don’t have buffalo gnats here yet Tracey.

To give folks an idea of the decline in turkey numbers here and in much of Northern Missouri.
We have always had mandatory checking (reporting) of harvested turkeys. The county that I live in peaked in the late 90’s at 804 turkeys in a spring season. We were between 660 to 770 for years. Today we struggle to check in 300 birds, with more hunters than ever, and more experienced turkey hunters than ever.
Just to give a little perspective………..

That's really tough. I used to travel to Knox County in the early 2000s to hunt with an old friend from Ohio. Couldn't believe the number of turkeys compared to where I live. Easy to tag out every year even for a novice like me. Hope it turns around.

Nice input Clay

Clay I don't know my counties numbers history but I would say it is similar and that 300 number would be even less if the hunter numbers were the same as late 90's early 00's. We can also add in more guns that shoot 50+ yards and stalking with fans. Electronic calls are of course illegal but I have wondered if any ever use their cell phone. Pretty hard to prove an electronic call with a phone.

Clay I read page 3 first posted then back to 2. To your post on page 2 I completely agree with all the observations you mentioned. I have been saying it for years now but something is going on. I too do not believe the habitat and predator theory, at least around here. Predator numbers were high when the boom started and peaked. I can take anyone to several spots that the habitat has not changed one bit in 5 years and turkey numbers went from having some to none. An unknown is having a huge impact on turkeys.

Plenty of spots here in NE Iowa had turkeys everywhere, not anymore. Barely hear gobbles anymore, every field had strutters in the spring , not anymore. More random hens without little ones wandering around. In the last few years, I maybe see a group or two of poults( I gravel travel a lot) and haven't seen a jake while hunting in 5 years.

When we first started hunting a small place in SW Oklahoma back in 2011, there was tons of birds. And according to the neighbor
That’s lived there all his life, those numbers were way down.

We have not even tried to hunt out there in the last several years, because there is not a huntable population to speak of. It used to be one of our favorite pastimes.

The timeframe of the use of neonic’s makes sense in species decline.

It's the farming practices/chemicals Monsanto/Bayer and the government the farmer's are puppets that sold out to big money, it's not predation it's not habitat loss its chemicals, first went the quail then then rats then the pheasant now you have song birds woodpeckers turkey rabbits butterfly bee's , all this predator/habitat is BS the only reason they can't figure it out and or fix it is because all the money behind it. Studies are about like our last few elections the outcome will be whatever the big guys want.

Sure may something about insects?
When I built my cabin 15 years ago, there were bugs/frogs by the gazillion.
Even though I'm only 100 yards from a river, mosquitoes are almost extinct now. Same as frogs.

Something has changed for sure.

Do they not use neonicotinoids in the northern states where turkeys are numerous?

This thread is interesting in that here in central Kansas it’s the same story, there were three to four hundred birds all around my place. Strutters everywhere and not uncommon to see forty fifty birds on almost every wheat field. I don’t think the neonictoids are it they have not been used for years well at least 2018. However there is a new class of insecticide that is a virus a live contagion that kills the bugs and thus it may be killing the birds. This stuff came into the market about three years ago and that coincides with the decline of birds here in Central Kansas.

This insecticide has to be refrigerated and kept viable rather than just hot mix and dump in a tank. I will have to look up what the stuff is again but I have been banging my head trying to figure out what is up. I thought drought and disease but the talk of insecticide jarred my memory of this virus crap insecticide..

Good question.
I do not know.
I do know that declining turkey populations do not seem to be as bad in states with relatively new populations.
Neonics are used many ways, but predominantly as a seed treatment that is systemic within the plant. It’s in the plant and the pollen.
Neonics have been banned in Europe for well over 10 years in an attempt to save bees.
It’s just a theory, but is one shared by many. Correct or not, something’s going on in the outdoors and it ain’t good.

Recent Tennessee turkey study just completed:

“ In brief, findings indicate low nest success and poult survival as a result of predation is limiting the population,”

https://turkeysfortomorrow.org/funding-critical-research-in-tennessee/

I think Nate hit it on the head. The farmers here spray because the sun came up, it's cloudy or anything else. They spray everything. Want you to have beehives next to fields and then spray and kill them. The Co-op here built a big facility with huge tanks and spray rigs,they load up semi's with big tanks and you see them and spray rigs everywhere.

The decline in wildlife is like the decline in row crop cultivators, they used to be used everywhere but the sprays and chemicals killed both off.

Also I believe spraying herbicide is responsible for cotton tail decline

Quail research has pretty much turned me against the results of research funded by outside sources.
Billions have been spent on quail research.
You see the results.

Can someone shoot me an example of a wildlife population decline that was turned around due to research discovering the cause?

Yes, we use neonicotinoids up here. Lots of people trying to outlaw them and typically use the honey bee for emotional support/backing. I don't see it having merit as I run about 70 hives next to farmlands that neonics are used. I know of a guy who runs 1500 hives in Manitoba on his Canola farm. He has a success rate that most of us would die for and uses plenty of Neonics right next to his hives...and it's not hard to kill bees.

Now I can see someone making an argument along the lines of "application differences" from state to state? ( If there's any difference). I'm not aware of any differences in application mandates....but I wouldn't be a person who would know, in reality.

Here in MN. (According to the DNR) we have not seen much of a decline in turkey numbers, other than sporadic talk...actually a steady growth of both turkey and hunters, according to the DNR.

Most of the turkeys in this state are located in the Southeast region where farmlands is present amongst mature trees/hills, etc. Last year we harvested a little over 12,000 turkeys in the spring season alone with more hunters than ever before. The DNR claims hunting has no effect on the numbers.

MN (at least where most of the turkey are) also have plenty of predators: Coon, skunk and of course coyotes galore.

When MN introduced Turkeys decades ago, I remember having some real hard winters. They didn't die off but continued to grow and expand their ranges

I don't pretend have any answers...and why I posed the initial question. Thanks for the comments. I find them interesting (in a good way).