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quail #7743381
12/14/22 09:43 AM
12/14/22 09:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,640
De
C
coop Offline OP
trapper
coop  Offline OP
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,640
De
Any solid data on where our eastern states bobwhite quail went? They've gone from a healthy population to none in 25 years or so... predator protection, pesticides, habitat loss??? DE years end hunter data listed not 1 wild quail killed statewide, but yet we still have a season with a 5 bird limit.

Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743383
12/14/22 09:48 AM
12/14/22 09:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,247
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,247
Alaska and Washington State
^^^^^
So much for "wildlife management".
You need to go to a State game commission public meeting and call them out on this.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743385
12/14/22 09:51 AM
12/14/22 09:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 510
Arkansas
W
WhiteCliffs Offline
trapper
WhiteCliffs  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 510
Arkansas
Predation first and foremost and then loss of habitat

Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743417
12/14/22 10:33 AM
12/14/22 10:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Eastern shore of Maryland
M
Muddyrat Offline
trapper
Muddyrat  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Eastern shore of Maryland
As the others have already said habitat and predation is huge problem. Also farming practices have to change It doesn’t help killing every insect in the fields as that is a key factor also for the chicks when growing . There is a property that the state bought near me that is around 700 acres that is in habitat restoration and the quail have made a comeback some in that property. I don’t think buffer strip’s around field edges help them much IMO as that creates ideal places for predators to concentrate and hunt.

Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743442
12/14/22 11:21 AM
12/14/22 11:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,798
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
trapper
SJA  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,798
Western Shore Delaware
De's Red Fox and feral cat laws and habitat loss! mad


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743456
12/14/22 11:43 AM
12/14/22 11:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,585
coastal ny
G
gcs Offline
trapper
gcs  Offline
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G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,585
coastal ny
Used to have a lot here, not so many coons and feral cats. Now theres plenty of coons and feral cats and no quail.....habitat hasn't changed that much.

Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743506
12/14/22 12:57 PM
12/14/22 12:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,678
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,678
Georgia
Predators are just a small part of the problem. Quail need bare ground with a good mix of grasses and forbs adjacent to cover. And they need this habitat over large expanses to maintain healthy populations.

The type of habitat found in native pine savanna ecosystems.

Today we have second and third growth pine/oak forests with a huge influx of non native warm and cool season grasses, most being sod forming.

Predators just pick off whats left after they've lost the habitat needed to survive.


[Linked Image]
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743521
12/14/22 01:11 PM
12/14/22 01:11 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,985
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Online content
trapper
Wanna Be  Online Content
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,985
SW Georgia
Habitat
Predators (land and aerial)
Fire ants
Habitat
Bad weather cycles
Habitat

Our DNR has adopted a quail management practice on our WMA’s over the last several years and it’s showing. Hearing that Bobwhite whistle while turkey hunting during the Spring proves that. Manage for quail and everything prospers.

Re: quail [Re: waggler] #7743686
12/14/22 05:21 PM
12/14/22 05:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,773
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
trapper
DelawareRob  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,773
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Originally Posted by waggler
^^^^^
So much for "wildlife management".
You need to go to a State game commission public meeting and call them out on this.


https://dnrec.alpha.delaware.gov/fish-wildlife/advisory-councils/wildlife-and-freshwater-fish/

Please attend, you can do it virtually.


Who is John Galt?

You don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.

Semper Paratus
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743692
12/14/22 05:26 PM
12/14/22 05:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,773
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
trapper
DelawareRob  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,773
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Originally Posted by coop
Any solid data on where our eastern states bobwhite quail went? They've gone from a healthy population to none in 25 years or so... predator protection, pesticides, habitat loss??? DE years end hunter data listed not 1 wild quail killed statewide, but yet we still have a season with a 5 bird limit.


Yes, quail populations are non-existent. There are a few populations near cedar swamp and Bombay hook NWR. Fish and wildlife is trying to rebuild populations with help from outside NGO’s.

Rob Hossler is the guy to talk to about open seasons and why they aren’t closed. A lot has to do with them not wanting to take hunting opportunities away from hunters.

Causes are many. One being in my opinion is destruction of edge and row habitat from farming. They till all the way to the road or woods and give no place for quail to live. As well as using pesticides and herbicides to kill all their food.



Who is John Galt?

You don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.

Semper Paratus
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743723
12/14/22 05:55 PM
12/14/22 05:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
None in Nebraska either. Nor pheasants.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: quail [Re: gcs] #7743726
12/14/22 06:01 PM
12/14/22 06:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
M
MattLA Offline
trapper
MattLA  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
The largest factor in quail population reductions are because of habitat loss, but remember habitat doesn't just have to be on public land designated for recreation. It can be your back yard, your front yard, land you might own. The biggest impact is that humans mow way too much grass which kills their habitat tremendously. If you have quail, you need to just forget about bush hogging the grass at all and let it grow big.

It might sound silly, but look cutting grass is a waste of time and it does nothing to reduce snake encounters with humans. This is a myth that was propagated by the big lawnmower companies to do what? Sell more lawnmowers. We are now right at 12 months of me not cutting my grass at all front or back and the results are tremendous. Now how do we get to still use our land and get around? I cut pathways that I will maintain, but man it's 1000x better than wasting all that time cutting grass. The bird population has just about tripled, my rabbit population has easily doubled and my yard stays cooler than my neighbors by 1-3 degrees on average. The other thing too is that since I grow a good amount of the food we eat, my water usage was severely reduced in comparison because the grass being tall held in moisture a lot better, which kept the general area that surrounds where we plant stuff with a higher moisture level.

Before I cut my grass, I would always see this little non-venomous snakes, and I still see them. I have not seen a venomous snake at all, nor have I seen a big snake in general at all. My 3 kids and dog play in the yard, it hasn't been an issue at all and only has been beneficial in my mind. Just saying, the animals need the tall grass to thrive, and survive from natural predators, us cutting grass really low just makes this worse.

Last edited by MattLA; 12/15/22 01:50 AM.
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743766
12/14/22 06:53 PM
12/14/22 06:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,148
mo.
N
nate Offline
trapper
nate  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,148
mo.
Conservation and fish and wildlife dept.are corrupt just another government run pos.

Re: quail [Re: nate] #7743771
12/14/22 07:01 PM
12/14/22 07:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,798
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
trapper
SJA  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,798
Western Shore Delaware
Originally Posted by nate
Conservation and fish and wildlife dept.are corrupt just another government run pos.


Not necessarily corrupt, just getting management positions and politicians infiltrated by tree huggers, bird watchers, and anti-hunting personnel.


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743790
12/14/22 07:26 PM
12/14/22 07:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,492
South Ga - Almost Florida
S
Swamp Wolf Online happy
trapper
Swamp Wolf  Online Happy
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,492
South Ga - Almost Florida
Cannot replace controlled fire in quail management. It's the best, most efficient way to maintain quail habitat.


Thank God For Your Blessings!
Never Half-Arse Anything!

Resource Protection Service

Re: quail [Re: MattLA] #7743792
12/14/22 07:30 PM
12/14/22 07:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 615
Alabama
C
Coonman300 Offline
trapper
Coonman300  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 615
Alabama
Originally Posted by MattLA
The largest factor in quail population reductions are because of habitat loss, but remember habitat doesn't just have to be on public land designated for recreation. It can be your back yard, your front yard, land you might own. The biggest impact is that humans mow way too much grass which kills their habitat tremendously. If you have quail, you need to just forget about bush hogging the grass at all and let it grow big.

It might sound silly, but look cutting grass is a waste of time and it does nothing to reduce snake encounters with humans. This is a myth that was propagated by the big lawnmower companies to do what? Sell more lawnmowers. We are now right at 12 months of me not cutting my grass at all front or back and the results are tremendous. Now how do we get to still use our land and get around? I cut pathways that I will maintain, but man it's 1000x better than wasting all that time cutting grass. The bird population has just about tripled, my rabbit population has easily doubled and my yard stays cooler than my neighbors by 1-3 degrees on average. The other thing too is that since I grow a good amount of the food we eat, my water usage was severely reduced in comparison because the grass being tall held in moisture a lot better, which kept the general area that surrounds where we plant stuff with a higher moisture level.

Before I cut my grass, I would always see this little non-venomous snakes, and I still see them. I have no seen a venomous snake at all, nor have I seen a big snake in general at all. My 3 kids and dog play in the yard, it hasn't been an issue at all and only has been beneficial in my mind. Just saying, the animals need the tall grass to thrive, and survive from natural predators, us cutting grass really low just makes this worse.



When possible, please post some pics of what your yard looks like after a year without being cut. I assume at some point you will need to mow/bush hog to cut down sweetgums etc? I have some areas that I’ve let go like this but they had never been maintained much anyway.
Thanks


War Eagle!
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743798
12/14/22 07:34 PM
12/14/22 07:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,492
South Ga - Almost Florida
S
Swamp Wolf Online happy
trapper
Swamp Wolf  Online Happy
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,492
South Ga - Almost Florida
Yep^^^^

Grass...then shrubs...then trees. Every succession stage has its benefits for wildlife but quail need early stage...not shrubs and trees that will take over in time.


Thank God For Your Blessings!
Never Half-Arse Anything!

Resource Protection Service

Re: quail [Re: coop] #7743903
12/14/22 09:33 PM
12/14/22 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,321
PA
P
panaxman Offline
trapper
panaxman  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,321
PA
SE PA in the serpentine barrens, just north of MD state line, we had a good population through the 90's. I was a Park Ranger and saw them often. Im in northern Chester Co. now and out of the full time conservation work.

Re: quail [Re: coop] #7744034
12/15/22 12:05 AM
12/15/22 12:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
M
MattLA Offline
trapper
MattLA  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 986
Louisiana
The first pic is before and take note of the pine tree all the way to the right. In the 2nd pic that tree is in the center in front of my son. Where they are playing hasnt been mowed, its extremely thick and dense, but it naturally gets beat down. I dont think I will have to mow, I will just go cut the small trees down with my machete.

I say all of that, I would listen to what Swamp Wolf, Wanna Be and Warrior is saying. I am far from a quail expert and am not doing my yard thing for quail only. I sincerely just didnt want to waste my time mowing it anymore and was surprised at all the benefits it provides. Oh the last part is that somehow, some way it has reduced mosquitos, increased praying mantis. It also does increase locust, but they have been a staple for all the birds and our chickens. Do I have quail now? I atleast have a roaming covey that I can hear sometimes, the end of year 2 I will know more. There are feral cats in the woods....they need managing.



[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Last edited by MattLA; 12/15/22 01:51 AM.
Re: quail [Re: coop] #7744165
12/15/22 08:30 AM
12/15/22 08:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 330
North Central Kansas
O
Orlando Offline
trapper
Orlando  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 330
North Central Kansas
In north central Kansas, we had quite a few pheasants and quail up until maybe 2000 and then went for 10 or 15 years where the quail had disappeared. Later, the pheasants disappeared. Just a few years ago, the quail made a come back. Not so for pheasants.
I believe we have had as much change in farming practices as anywhere. So, I am hopeful that you will eventually see a rebound of quail.
Personally, I think it is a combination of causes including but not limited to West Nile virus, change in farming practices - no-till and herbicides, lack of edge, cool season grasses, and predation (racoons, skunks, possums, hawks)

On my ground, I probably have more later succession (trees) in some areas than ideal for quail as I like to have deer too. However, I do promote NWSG, plant shrubs such as American plum and fragrant sumac - which provide great cover and bare ground, and run cattle (which I think can be helpful if not everything is grazed completely. It can provide a lot of edge.) I also try to drop the hammer on nest raiders...although probably not as much as I should to be effective.

My 2 cents.


Nature is reckless of the individual. Aldo Leupold.
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