Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: cat4fish]
#6439618
01/25/19 10:20 AM
01/25/19 10:20 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050 Mass
TDHP
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
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Quality lure and bait makers are a dying breed and a dying art. JMO...Trappers and trapping are a dying breed and art. Take a look at posts through out the forums and actual people who trap. I know many guys who trap and work for trapping companies doing adc work. More and more rely too much on bait and lure rather than their ability to actually set a trap and set themselves up for success. There are folks out there with shelves of "proven" bait and lure made by "experts", and still looking for that "authentic" batch of goodies because their trapping ability is lacking.
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: cat4fish]
#6439735
01/25/19 12:14 PM
01/25/19 12:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369
N.C MO
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I do agree with knowing and understanding your target animal and understanding location. A location is just a spot if it don't have a interesting smell to generate the foot movement.Ive never felt as if a yote or most any predator besides a coon or grinner was working a smell for hunger only.Sure food odors demand the biggest interest.Although in my eyes curiosity and desire to wear it trump food on a regular basis .Most of the best authenic no longer available to day originals were high powered curiosity scents. I agree with cat 4 fish the chemical make up is what my attention goes to now.And as stated experience will still be the most rewarding teacher. Most any odd smell will attract a big part of the yotes but a smell that keeps them coming back repeatedly until caught is the ultimate goal.Which im sure is the goal of any bait or lure maker pro or novice.Im surprised you older pros don't give a week school on bait and lure formulating. Making my own stuff makes me pay considerable more attention to details at sets compared to a proven smell.I've never understood what good knowledge is if it goes to the grave.Passed on knowledge becomes a legacy.Im serious about the bait and lure formulating school!Free labor to aid in some of your nasty tasks.Bob id clean mink glands for a day for a weeks worth of dos and donts. A legal contract to guarantee your secrets stay secrets as long as you or your name was attached to a product.Wouldnt be unheard of
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: cat4fish]
#6439863
01/25/19 03:05 PM
01/25/19 03:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369
N.C MO
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GOOD ADVISE TDHP the good thing about being a novice failure isn't as big of a deal.All learning curves require failure. Those failures are still are still a success. I feel learning what not to do is as important as the ladder! Being on a uneven playing field I always felt as if I was imposing asking advise from a guy making his living from his skills
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: TONY.F]
#6440373
01/25/19 09:32 PM
01/25/19 09:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,222 MN
yukonal
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,222
MN
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.I've never understood what good knowledge is if it goes to the grave.Passed on knowledge becomes a legacy. I agree, Tony. Lots of great recipes have gone to the grave with the formulator. I guess most lure makers would rather try to sell their formulas when they are ready to call it quits. There is a bunch of sharing on this forum. I've learned a lot over the years...and have tried to share my knowledge, as well.
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: cat4fish]
#6441857
01/27/19 10:34 AM
01/27/19 10:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,452 Monroeville NJ
Jonesie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,452
Monroeville NJ
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I think we as trappers get to worked up on the animal working the set hard that we miss trap placement, and I mean with not only foot holds but also cable and cages. Yes we want the bait or lure to keep the animal there so don't take this out of context, but if the trap is in the right position then how long does it take to catch the animal? We all have seen vids on this site of the target animal that comes in and gets caught on the first or second steps before they even start to work the bait or lure. or go right into the cage with out circling it. The blind set be it a foot trap, cable or even a cage trap, placed where the animal is going to walk first and foremost, then bait or lure added along with the visual of a hole or cow chip, dead stick what ever, all work together to trigger as many senses in a positive, is what catches the animal. That sounds simple and to folks doing this stuff for years and have learned it, well, it is simple. But perhaps like Bob stated, taking years to learn it, we have forgotten when in the beginning it wasn't simple LOL. I am showing my grandson many things and I have to keep telling myself this stuff is complicated to him because he is not thinking on the same lines at one season of trapping as I am with trapping for 50 years. Is valerian a good ingredient? Yes in the right formulations and with the right intent. but just like every ingredient it ain't going to work all the time. NOTHING DOES.
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: cat4fish]
#6445312
01/30/19 11:11 AM
01/30/19 11:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369 N.C MO
TONY.F
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,369
N.C MO
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jonsie in a perfect world you are 100 % correct! Sometimes I hit the sweet spot dead center but other times. I get a predator that forgot to read the manual so I need the extra steps Im guilty of relying on a smell to much.. Not to get them to a set but keep them at a set. Hardly ever do I use what is considered a true ldc . I lack a good cat population but my tests have shown predators show attraction towards valerian.Sweeter smelling meats pair well with valerian from my limited testing
LIVE LIFE LIKE THEIR IS NO TOMMORROW
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: TDHP]
#6447608
02/01/19 09:35 AM
02/01/19 09:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,648 Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins
"Trapperman custodian"
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"Trapperman custodian"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,648
Goldsboro, North Carolina
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If folks who use nothing more than a chunk of bait and urine or just urine that's processed today whether cut or not and can double the catch rate of many who do use bait and lure, what does that say about authentic ingredients pertaining to ingredient lists in bait and lure vs knowledge of the art of trapping and luck? There may be more to it than knowledge of the art of trapping and luck. The biggest factor I've found is population density of the target animal. Where the target animal has a high population, they will be attracted to most anything. Where the target animal population is sparse, they are much more wary and inclined to be much more finicky. Where the population of the target animal is sparse, knowledge of the art of trapping becomes much more important
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: cat4fish]
#6447670
02/01/19 10:32 AM
02/01/19 10:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050 Mass
TDHP
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
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Sir, I knew the animal population comment which is true would be the next issue when it comes to catch rate, but like any other excuse..it could only be used for so long before the individual has to look into their ability to 1 find the animals and 2 set themselves up for the catch. I can bait a dirt hole or drop a chunk of bait in my yard and have zero visits from animals if they aren't there, even using some top notch lure. Same could be said for bait and lure in the field to get responses, even though the lure claims to call animals from miles away. I've seen zero activity on what most say is the best ldc on the market along with a commercial bait that is supposed to be the best in the country according to others and I would assume they are using top notch ingredients if it's the best in the country. Even if the animals weren't in the area, they sould've been due to the calling power of them ingredients..as they claim. Both you and Mr Jameson know your stuff, I get it and respect it. So, I guess the only question is why are there so many lures that claim to calm the animals down and get them to drop their guard, but still have trappers filling shelves with bait and lure and still continue to fail on their targets when they have animal tracks walking right by their set by a couple feet? One would think if these ingredients can call an animal from a mile, it should be able to get an animal to at least stop to take a whiff of them authentic ingredients...right?
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: cat4fish]
#6447698
02/01/19 10:53 AM
02/01/19 10:53 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445 Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
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There are so many variables to weather an animal is attracted or not. I agree population density is huge, but sometimes the animal is just not in the mood, period. Doesn;t matter what magic potion we use. When I'm thinking of trying a new attractor I ask the maker one question, Will this stuff stop every passing animal? If he says yes I walk.. Place the set within 3 feet of the line of travel , both sides. Bed the trap where the target wants to step. Then wait.. If they are using that location you'll catch, eventually.
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: WHATS your opinion of Valerian now ?
[Re: cat4fish]
#6447864
02/01/19 02:35 PM
02/01/19 02:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445 Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
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Animals are alot like us, some like this or that some don't. In low population areas it takes variety to get results. Ive trapped in both high and low, low populations is a bit different. They'll never be just one or even two. It also changes with the time of year. The lure that works for some trappers won't work for others. But, there are some that are pretty darn special.. No I ain't naming those LOL
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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