Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6181492
03/08/18 07:02 PM
03/08/18 07:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,474 Wisconsin
Muskrat
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,474
Wisconsin
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You're probably going to get lots and lots of sharetime on this one. I'm on year 32 with longtail Go Devils, by choice. I know what I want out of a mud motor and the longtail satisfies that need.
And you'll have fellas who will say surface drives do everything they want and need.
I'd suggest you find some folks who have 'em and beg for ride alongs. A couple different longtail setups, and a couple different surface drive setups.
Then once you decide on which one, do your homework on the best boat (length/width/weight) that will be served by the best horsepower.
Too many fellas I've known do not take that advice, think they've got it all from reading this and that on the internet, make their purchase, then play the bumpup game a year later or maybe even sooner.
IMO, two rigs will best serve the water trapper. And that's what I've got. From these 32 years of running longtails, I've settled on the Go Devil 9 horse Honda longtail on the back of a 14' Alumacraft V-bow. You can get more payload into the front end of a V-bow and still get it up on plane than you can a flat. Real nice marsh/small river rig.
The other rig is a 16' Alumacraft T16XL that has the transom beefed up to 20" with aluminum plating. On that sets a 35 horse Go Devil longtail. Lightweight boat, plenty of payload in the front end, and that 35 pops it up on plane right now.
Go Devil is all I've ever run, and have had no problems with the rigs all these years except once a 23 horse came with the wrong fitting to the tank and I had to replace that. Otherwise, regular maintenance and keep the prop out of the sand and you've got a rig that will provide you with years of dependability.
Go Devil motors I've owned: 5 hp, 5.5 hp, 8 hp, 13 hp, 18 hp, 23 hp, and the 35s I've got now, the other on an 18' foot flat for duck hunting and fishing.
Look 'em all over. Talk with fellas that own and run 'em . . a lot. And listen to the others who post on here and why they like their rigs.
Just don't rush into it. And have fun!
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Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6181508
03/08/18 07:27 PM
03/08/18 07:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,424 williams,mn
trapper les
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,424
williams,mn
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Different rigs for different applications. I bought my small SPS longtail in the summer of "13" and it serves me well on small water. I would like a bigger rig too, and haven't bought one yet. Bigger water takes a bigger motor. Surface drives are spendier and a lot more hp than my little rig. Money was an object, still is .
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6181752
03/08/18 11:34 PM
03/08/18 11:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,424 williams,mn
trapper les
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,424
williams,mn
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I've picked up an old 48 x 16 riveted Jon I'd like to put something bigger on. That would let me run the Rainy River safely, I cant do it with my little rat rig...here is a pic of the small rig. Shallow water, small waves only with this 14' Montgomery Wards type boat.
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6182249
03/09/18 12:25 PM
03/09/18 12:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,424 williams,mn
trapper les
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25,424
williams,mn
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Getting wore out from running a longtail while rat trapping is an issue.
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
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Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6182352
03/09/18 01:59 PM
03/09/18 01:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,425 USA-WI
Kre
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,425
USA-WI
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I have a surface drive. But, I have a boat made for a surface drive and I'm not sure how one would perform on a boat made for an outboard. My 23 hp SD pushed my 1548 at least 20 mph, which is nice because I have to make longer runs. I can adjust it so the prop barely licks the water when I'm setting and checking. It just crawls along which is nice.
If you're going to be using a regular boat, designed for an outboard, you probably should go w/ a longtail. But, my only experience is w/ SD, so what do I know?
I can say, I will never go back to an outboard for trapping. I'm done w/ sheared pins and busted up props. Air cooled is very nice.
Going on a ride along w/ someone is a good idea. I know it's intimidating when you don't have experience with either a LT or SD. It can be a big investment, so you want to make the best informed decision that you can.
Good luck!
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Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6182532
03/09/18 05:40 PM
03/09/18 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,091 North East Kansas
Marty
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,091
North East Kansas
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Do surface drives have reverse? I was hung up on tall tree stumps that were just underwater a few times with a flatbottom and a longshaft..Trees that had been inn the water for a few decades and rotted off at the surface. Maybe 10-15'of water.
To deep for the push pole and had to swim to shore both times with a rope and pull the boat off.
Having reverse is always a plus. Anyway ran 5 and 18 hp go devils, they ran fine.
E 'Honey Badger Militia' Sleep, the anti woke adote.
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Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6182613
03/09/18 07:12 PM
03/09/18 07:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324 AK
FairbanksLS
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
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I had a Go Devil longtail with a 23hp Kohler on a 16x48 Jon boat. Had a grab bar and it was a fight in the rivers I used it on and had limited maneuverability.
Sold it first chance I got.
I'd buy another but it would be on a smaller boat and less than 10hp.
Last edited by gray dog; 03/09/18 07:13 PM.
formerly posting as white dog
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Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6182992
03/10/18 03:38 AM
03/10/18 03:38 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,973 South metro, MN
Calvin
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,973
South metro, MN
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I have 3 surface drives. two are 14 hp units (same unit) for my rat boat (1442) and a 28hp unit is on the 1648 jon. They really run like an outboard where you can adjust the the prop depth and not have to hold it at the correct water dept. Sit down or stand up...whatever you feel. I opted out of the hydraulic trim as the manual star wheel works just fine (even on the bigger unit).
Neither of my boats are designed for a mud motor. Both are just the standard riveted jons. I went with the riveted for both due to weight. I have a welded fishing jon and if you ever get that thing hung up, you need a crane to get it unstuck. I wanted a light boat that I could get out and free myself if I had to...or push pole off of something. If I were in a rocky areas, I might consider the welded, however....maybe.
As far as boats go, longer is usually better in relationship to mud motors...especially if you don't have pods (which I don't) Front end weight is a nice thing with mud motors. With the weight of the motor and a guy in the far rear, you'll want weight up front to even out your boat. Easier to do with a little extra length if you don't have traps or critters to do it for you.
As stated, some Surface drives have a clutch and some don't. Mine do and have been bulletproof. Let off the gas and it idles down and the prop stops spinning. Most of the smaller units are going to be direct drive without a clutch, however. If they do have a clutch, I would steer clear of electric clutches for trapping. Idling heats up the electric clutches and they can fail. Mud Buddy steered me away from their electric clutch once they understood I was a trapper and it would be idling a lot.
Marty...Yes, many manufacturers now make Surface drives with Reverse. The units look just like an outboard nowadays. But it's only the larger models, last I checked.
Another consideration for any mud motor or boat combo is payload and type of use. A little forethought into what kind of critters (how much a days catch will weigh) and how far one need to go to get there in back is essential in picking a boat/motor combo. I won't go coon and beaver trapping in my rat boat. I also won't trap rats all day out of my big boat. fighting a big boat and motor in a rat slough will wear you out. Just food for thought.
Last edited by Calvin; 03/10/18 07:11 AM.
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Re: Mud Motors-Surface Drive or Long Tail
[Re: BBarnes]
#6183254
03/10/18 11:40 AM
03/10/18 11:40 AM
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 156 Minnesota
MN live bait
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 156
Minnesota
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I owned a 37 gator tail for a year until I tore up the alumacraft i put it on. I couldn't afford the right boat. Big mistake as posted above. I trapped minnows with it and had a 50 gallon tank in it. Those motors are very impressive and pushed that weight like nothing. Game changer in getting to fresh minnow ground. I plan on investing in there new gtr XD with the correct boat. With the low horsepower surface drives out there I honestly don't see a advantage to a long tail. Just my person opinion
Last edited by MN live bait; 03/10/18 11:41 AM.
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