Very cool thread.

WHSKR: understood, and no hard feelings on my part...I'm very hard to offend anyway. Your explanation shows more where you are coming from. I also understand your logic regarding queen rearing going a more "natural" route. However, it cannot be disputed that keepers raise queens to display characteristics that they desire through selective rearing, such as it is. If you are not into that I can understand, but others might be interested in the subject. I personally only bought queens to try those that were displaying hive characteristics of the "hygenic" nature. I can't say one way or the other if I am sold on it yet.

Lastly, since you understand their importation to the US, then you also understand that we have imported non-native pests and diseases. We can wait for natural selection to produce a strain of European honey bee that can survive the exotic threats (unlikely to happen in my lifetime or yours) or we can intervene at some level. You mentioned some of them. Of course, we could all switch to African and Asian honey bees and hang it up with Europeans... I'm guessing we all try and find ways that fit within our own personal standards and belief systems. I know how I see it and how I keep my bees.

No beekeeper wants to lose their bees to pests and disease.

To follow up on the swarm trap entry. Here are a couple of pictures of swarms which were attracted last season:


And here is a swarm being cast and moving to the staging tree:

And an example of extreme swarm collecting. Kind of hard to shake them loose when they are wrapped around the main trunk! They moved in eventually.

I tried early on to order southern bred bees and I had no luck getting through one Ky winter. I was raised on small farm that was way out in the boon docks. There were always honey bees around back in the 60’s and 70’s. Was able to purchase the little 60 acre place about 15 years ago and there were still some of the little black looking bees around. We have been successfully catching swarms and obviously expanding from the hives that seem to do the best in regards to survival. They are not the higher honey producers as Italian or more yellow bees but they are ok. Some can be a bit aggressive when conditions are challenging. But we have not lost a hive of these lines of bees this winter and we had a darn good one. Extended cold and lingering winter bite in the air and thus far a very cool spring.
They seem to winter well and not lose contact with their stores. I have been in may of them by now and most are building up very well at this time. They r packing in pollen fairly well on the few flight days we have had.

And one more about overwintering nucs. I am by no means claiming to be an expert, but here is how I decided to do it this year. My design is my own, however it is based on seeing what other well known beekeepers are doing. So, the measurements are based on standard lang equipment and then I figured out how I wanted to build it. Basic concept is to house 6 five frame nucs, all deep frames, in the same "hotel" with room on top for jar feeders and a layer of insulation for the winter. Lids must be separate to work one colony at a time and the upper cover/expansion top needed to be separate pieces so I could add a second story of deep frames when I wanted to. I do not have that part pictured. Each second story is independent of the others. Worked fairly well.



And here are some pics of it in action:


There are two entrances on the long sides and one on each end. Mesh screen to close the door with, which doubles as a landing pad, and a piece of flashing for an entrance reducer in the winter.

Always nice to see bees well up when you pop the top:

And on that picture you can see where the jar feeders sit on top. The mesh keeps the bees in as I swap feeders.
This five frame nuc got moved to a 10 frame deep 10 days ago.

When the three frames of brood emerges the colony will not fit in the 5 frame nuc anymore.

There is much which could be discussed concerning purchased bees...either nucs or packages. I don't really want to get into that discussion. Back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s the common bee (according to the historians) were the German bees. Many believe that there are remnants around from those strains. Could be, I don't know. What you describe fits with their temperament if I remember correctly. Not great honey producers, can be feisty, and swarm a lot.

The nuc pictured above is what is happening here now. My bees moved with me from the north. I have both bees caught here and ones caught up north which survived MI winters. Colony above was reared off my "MI" stock. I checked again on Sunday and they were very active even though it was 55 and very windy. Loads of pollen coming in.

Love the bee motel very interesting

Because I didn't start them early enough many were actually only 3 frames worth and still made it through this winter. A couple got robbed out and died when I moved 25 two story hives back to the yard, but overall they did very well.

WHSKR - I share your same feelings about bees. I just didn't want to type it earlier as I get tired of arguing with some that feel like they HAVE to chemically treat their bees or they will die....God created them and knows very well how to take care of them. Without man, they would survive....and likely better. We get the benefit and enjoyment of hive manipulations and I thoroughly love watching bees pack in products in the hive and us being able to harvest their efforts. For me, it is very calming to sit and watch my bees come and go.....

Has anyone in Missouri or north started splitting yet? It is still getting below freezing and I am checking the inner covers and making sure they still have food but haven't wanted to open them up and split yet...

Unless you are buying mated queens the splitting should be based at least in part on drone abundance. I only had flighted drones in one hive two weeks ago. Also, you would need a good window of acceptable weather for the virgin queens' mating flights. My guess is that you would be best off to wait two to 4 weeks yet. That said, you should look into the hives before making a decision.

No local queen breeders here have them available at this time and probably won't until sometime in April.

That's my report for coastal NC...

Is it fair to say that, while understanding the principles of integrated pest management, anyone who states "only one way to" do such and such is going to miss something by unequivocally discounting one strategy for dealing with problems and relying only on another? Food for thought...

I will reiterate, "some form of treatment" does not indicate where I stand on the subject of "chemicals". I am for the open discussion so people can be informed of all theories and principles and be able to then decide for themselves.

Given my training (please don't take this wrong as it is all in fun) I feel that I should point out that I could list the chemical name/formula for sugar...or water...or vinegar...all of which fit in the strict definition of "chemicals". Seriously, all in fun. Also seriously it is important to give a more exact name to what we might be discussing. Eg: formic acid...and then there is no confusion.

No I have not, March came in like a lion 26 degrees today. On sunny days I saw a few bee's out of the hive but didn't want to open the hives and take that risk. It's hard for the hive to warm back up in this weather we've been having.


B

I'll relate on how my opinion has changed over the years regarding treatment.
Back when varroa first came in it wiped my Dad and I out. He has since passed but we bought packages and over the next few years treated with apistan, coumaphos and tactic alternately. It seemed like the only way at the time. It also seemed like the bees did not do as well. I always thought to knock the mites down you were making the bees sick and so production suffered.
When varroa came in it killed off all the wild bees here or so we thought. After a number of years though we did start to notice a few wild bees that were apparently able to tolerate the mites through natural cleaning behavior and more prolific swarming. I started collecting these swarms and at the time there seemed to be no other beeks in the area so I was getting nothing but the wild varroa resistant stock. I decided to quit treating and let the good survive and the weak die. I was now a firm believer in not treating. This went on and the bees seemed to survive better every year. My best colony is now at least 15 years without treatment. I would catch swarms every year to replace loss and slowly adding a few hives.
Then beekeeping became popular and every Tom Dick and Harry decided they would get bees. Of course they started with packages and I believe this weakened the genetics of the survivor bees in the area. Things went downhill for several years before I decided to start treating again. I am back in the must treat camp again. I am using formic acid treatment and so far so good. Looks like I have 100% survival in my two apiaries as of now. Still a month or more before things start to happen here but from what I can see it is encouraging.

This article was just posted today in our area. sorry for it's length I couldn't do a link.

New beekeepers are being ripped off when it comes to bees all across the northeast. Here are a few examples, first let’s talk packages. If you are receiving a package of bees from your local supplier, where are those bees being produced, often the supplier does not want the beekeeper know and may be somewhat vague, because it may provide too much specific damming information. If you are planning to have a package of bees placed in your hand the second week of April, those queens are being produced today, grafting, egg, or early larval stage, orientation flights, mating flights, and finally a laying queen. Now take a look at the weather where your queen is coming from, if you know where that is, probably Georgia. At the time of this writing March 6th the weather in Georgia is in the low forties, now take a look outside, it’s about the same weather here, just how much work do you plan to do in your bee yard today, that’s right none. Good queen breeders take queens from or off brood of their own making to make sure the queens are in fact mated and this takes time, about a month to be exact. A lot of virgin queens are sold to beekeepers in packages and nucs; the producer is hoping she can be mated under your care. Virgin queen acceptance rates are low at about 75% and furthermore, what are the weather and drone populations like here in April, oh yea, sometimes not so good.
Further, what is a #2, or a #3, or a #4, old school had the figures reversed it used to read 2# or 3# and occasionally 4# of bees and the reason for this was to save space in an ad, hence money. It is still being done to save money at the expense of an uneducated consumer, you. I still cannot name names but the information is available for all to see and no matter what your local supplier is telling you, if the producer, and if you know who that is, is selling #2 or #3 you are (not) getting 2 or 3 pounds of bees and this is common practice today, especially from our southern suppliers. You the beekeeper, purchasing a package of bees are being ripped off in the following ways; you may not know where your bees are coming from deliberately, you may be receiving a virgin queen and if it is too early in the season, you are. You (are) deliberately misled about the weight and volume of bees in your package. You may have to replace your queen if she is not accepted and if she is accepted this will at best prolong the start of your season if the queen is a virgin. Some local producers are suggesting you keep the queen you received with the package until local queens are available and then replace her, what are they actually saying? I think I know! This is why I say you the beekeeper are being ripped OFF when purchasing a package of bees from some suppliers!
As if you are not depressed enough let’s talk about how you the beekeeper, is being ripped off by the nuc industry. Nucs have long been touted as being better than package bees and in some cases this is true, but not most. Quality nucs are dependent on several factors, as in the #2 or #3 package bee boondoggle, no one actually knows what is in a nuc unless it is discussed between buyer and seller. So what are you the beekeeper actually getting when you purchase a nuc? Is it a 2 frame, 3 frame, 4 frame, 5 frame and exactly what is on the frames, mostly honey the sellers wants to get rid of, old pollen from last year, old worn out comb, are you getting some disease with these frames, this is always a major risk for the beekeeper. If this is not readily discussed by the seller deception may be at play and buyer should ask appropriate questions, if the buyer is informed enough to do so. The Ohio Department of Agriculture (ODA) states that the brood in the nuc should be of the queen on the frame, is it. Is this a queen from last year or even the year before, or a queen you purchased, or a queen you produced, or is it a queen in a cage that has not even been introduced to the nuc as yet???? You cannot produce a queen here in Ohio and have her on 3 or more frames of her own brood in the month of a typical April. If you do manage to produce a queen here in the first of April she (cannot) be well mated, again because of weather and possible drone populations at that time of year. When are you the beekeeper receiving your nuc? A good three pounds of bees will catch up with any nuc in a month if the package was installed in April. We tell beekeepers that they will need to add a second deep in a month’s time when buying a good 3#’s of bees. So this means that a package of bees installed by the 3rd or 4th week of April will be on TEN FRAMES by the 3rd or 4th week of May and that is when many of you will get a 5 frame nuc when a good package is already on 10 frames. Many report of receiving their nucs in June and nuc in June, or later may not be able to get up to speed before winter and will not produce a surplus of honey. Is your nuc produced in Ohio, some nucs are brought into Ohio from other states illegally, where American Foulbrood is rampant and Africanized bees are found? I cannot believe the ODA still allows colonies, packages, queens, or nucs to be brought into Ohio from states like Texas and Florida where Africanized bees are known to be a problem.
There is money to be made in producing and selling package bees and nucs and queens this is not likely to change anytime soon, for several reasons. One, there are not enough quality package bee, nuc, and queen producers available to meet the demand and this has produced a lot of snake oil salesman looking to get rich. Two, it will take an educated buyer who demands transparency, honesty in live bee sales to turn this around, are you there yet? Three, when beekeepers finally decide to keep bees in such a way that the need for such a volume of bees is no longer needed from outside sources, this is the right direction, take control of your own beekeeping! I don’t see any of this happening anytime soon and until then expect to be ripped off, make demands of your supplier or take your business elsewhere. Weigh your packages before and after installation and if it is not as advertised, do not be a part of the problem, confront the seller, and ask for a proportional refund back relative to the deficient amount of bees. If your queen is present and not laying within ten days ask the seller about replacement and this goes for nucs as well as packages. Good suppliers will have queens available and work with you about replacements, unless they are a fly by night operation.
I cannot divulge specifics as to why this article is written but trust me, there are many reasons!

Danldo. Much info there and much thought provoking information. It is common knowledge to know 10 and 10 of thousands of nucs and packages of bees are sold every year to the same large buyers year after year after year. There should be a honey bee interstate from coast to coast paved with dead bee bodies.
Finger, when I speak of treatments I most always preface that with “harsh”chemicals. Which I mean miticides, and antibiotics and such.
The more natural products used for various management practices are not nearly as potentially hazardous to the bees, the honey or to those who consume bee products.
I am so glad you started the thread to share info and all of us will gain from each other’s experience.
I think it’s to early up here in Ky and Mo to split as our weather has not settled. I have inspected some hives on a couple 65 degree days and there are no drones yet and not much capped drone cells either. Remember 24 days to hatch drones and 16 days to hatch a queen. The weather must be fair for a queen to successfully mate. earlier in a post I mentioned the word patience and working with the nature of the Bees and this is the type of thing I am referring too.
I can have a 1000 queens hatched in just over two weeks and sell them to folks but they are not good queens, bred and laying and inspected for brood patterns and all the things that take time and patience working WITH the nature of the “bee and the colony”
Waiting for a good population of Drones and a well bred laying queen and thus a better colony.

Going along with this thread I was wondering how you all move your hives. Do you have a lift set up of some kind? One of my major issues is I'm by myself all the time in the bee yards, I don't on the land where my bees are and was looking for ideas on moving hives as more areas open up for me.

Thanks
Ben

This time of year they are at their lightest . Usually two strong backs. You can slip a solid board between the deeps. And later close up the bottom at dark. And then lift one box at a time. You must make sure the bees can get some air, vent them especially in warmer weather.
I have use a set of “truck dolly” and wheeled them up on a trailer with a ramp.
I usually use a lifeline and call a friend.
I don’t move many two deep hives and usually decide which yard I want a hive in while it is still in one 10 frame box.

Does it matter when stacking supers if frames are set perpendicular one box over another?

For storage or on the hive? If storing then no, but if on the hive then yes-and the boxes wouldn't line up correctly anyway.