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Re: Spike buck [Re: coonfinder] #6043287
11/02/17 05:42 PM
11/02/17 05:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,124
St. Louis Co, Mo
B
BigBob Offline
trapper
BigBob  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,124
St. Louis Co, Mo
Originally Posted By: coonfinder
https://www.realtree.com/deer-This is a pretty good article relating directly to what your asking.


Pretty good read.


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043299
11/02/17 05:55 PM
11/02/17 05:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 14,196
Michigan
T
Trapper Dahlgren Offline
trapper
Trapper Dahlgren  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 14,196
Michigan
you want to see bigger horns put mineral lick in spring they really work for me see a lot more bucks an larger ones

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043479
11/02/17 09:06 PM
11/02/17 09:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,479
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,479
western mn
There is NO WAY of knowing!!
The " experts" that get paid for writing about " their findings" do so in mostly an enclosed area with controlled conditions!
I see more and more every year where a good looking young buck at 3 years old never amounts to much more than he was 2 3 years later.

YOU CANNOT shoot the genetic potential out of deer in a wild herd !


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043534
11/02/17 09:59 PM
11/02/17 09:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,626
MB
J
Jurassic Park Offline
trapper
Jurassic Park  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,626
MB
Some hunters are the dumbest people in the world with the things they believe and tell people.
The ‘Once a spike always a spike’ is a retarded saying and if you say it and preach it, you’re retarded too.
Plenty of places with good cover, water, and all the food in the world will produce spikes and monster bucks. Can’t blame spikes on poor food when you have a bunch of 130”-200” bucks on the land.
It’s an individual thing. That spike could become the next world record if given the chance.

How many people had someone in their class super short in elementary then was one of the tallest in high school?


Cold as ice!
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043536
11/02/17 10:00 PM
11/02/17 10:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,479
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,479
western mn
Amen!


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043542
11/02/17 10:04 PM
11/02/17 10:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,984
rogers city mi.
J
jeff karsten Offline
trapper
jeff karsten  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,984
rogers city mi.
then why do the deer ranches cull their buck herd


olden tyred
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043556
11/02/17 10:24 PM
11/02/17 10:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,479
western mn
B
bucksnbears Offline
trapper
bucksnbears  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,479
western mn
Because THEY Can!


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Spike buck [Re: tlguy] #6043562
11/02/17 10:35 PM
11/02/17 10:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 56
Ohio
7
75grainmuzzy Offline
trapper
75grainmuzzy  Offline
trapper
7

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 56
Ohio
meat in the freezer.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043566
11/02/17 10:39 PM
11/02/17 10:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,909
eastern WV
R
Ridge Runner1960 Offline
trapper
Ridge Runner1960  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,909
eastern WV
depends on a lot of things, when a buck is 18 months old, his body is growing faster than it ever will again in his life, most area do not offer enough nutrition to grow body weight and antlers both. same as after a hard winter, before antlers start to develop the deer must put body weight back on, a buck will not attain the same antler size if the horns start growing in mid April as they would if they sprouted mid march. those little 13" 6-8 points you see after a mild winter would be a spike after a brutal one.
RR

Re: Spike buck [Re: coonfinder] #6043579
11/02/17 11:06 PM
11/02/17 11:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,712
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,712
Virginia
Originally Posted By: coonfinder
https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner

This is a pretty good article relating directly to what your asking.

No offense to you coonfinder, or anyone else for that matter, but I looked at those chronological photos of Reartree's spike and I question their scoring ability for each photo. But then they are in the business of selling every hunting gadget imaginable and are prone to exaggeration almost as much as a Michigan fisherman.
Another issue is that all knowledgeable herd managers would have culled that deer after its third year since it lacked the genetics to produce at least 10 points by that age. The remaining photos of ages 4,5,6,7, and 8 confirmed this.
OK so it ended up being a deer every single one of us would like to shoot, but over its 7 breeding years it polluted the herd's gene pool with its inferior genetics.
Are all spikes doomed to be inferior once fully mature? Of course not. Are most of them doomed as such? Very likely.
The best parallel has been brought up about knowledgeable cattlemen not choosing runts to become their breed bulls.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043583
11/02/17 11:08 PM
11/02/17 11:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,855
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
trapper
charles  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,855
Asheville, NC
I used to shoot them but no more. Give it a chance. Like others have said,he might be not be inferior, just born late and is catching up.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043601
11/02/17 11:26 PM
11/02/17 11:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,886
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,886
perry co.Pa
Like I said in the beginning of this
Can of worms and I think they are in catch 22's popcorn

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043641
11/03/17 12:46 AM
11/03/17 12:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,782
eastern shore of Maryland
gwc Offline
trapper
gwc  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,782
eastern shore of Maryland
They'll amount to something here,dinner on my familys table.Im out there for the meat mostly,so that is a good pile of tender meat.


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Re: Spike buck [Re: 52Carl] #6043660
11/03/17 02:26 AM
11/03/17 02:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 732
Oklahoma
coonfinder Offline
trapper
coonfinder  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 732
Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: 52Carl
Originally Posted By: coonfinder
https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner

This is a pretty good article relating directly to what your asking.

No offense to you coonfinder, or anyone else for that matter, but I looked at those chronological photos of Reartree's spike and I question their scoring ability for each photo. But then they are in the business of selling every hunting gadget imaginable and are prone to exaggeration almost as much as a Michigan fisherman.
Another issue is that all knowledgeable herd managers would have culled that deer after its third year since it lacked the genetics to produce at least 10 points by that age. The remaining photos of ages 4,5,6,7, and 8 confirmed this.
OK so it ended up being a deer every single one of us would like to shoot, but over its 7 breeding years it polluted the herd's gene pool with its inferior genetics.
Are all spikes doomed to be inferior once fully mature? Of course not. Are most of them doomed as such? Very likely.
The best parallel has been brought up about knowledgeable cattlemen not choosing runts to become their breed bulls.


I compleatly agree with you! But it’s also hard to judge a deer just from pictures sometimes. As for the other arguments that are presented. The deer from this article isint a high fence deer or in a “controlled” environment. That why I think this is a good argument. I personally shoot small deer if it’s the beginning of the season. During the beginning of the season I’m under the impression to just fill my freezer. But once I have a buck and a doe or two that’s when I start holding off to see if I can see or shoot a bigger buck. Just my opinion though fellas.


All life demands a struggle. Those who have everything given to them become lazy,selfish, and insensitive to the real values of life.
Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043694
11/03/17 05:55 AM
11/03/17 05:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,535
Saginaw, Mi
M
micheal Offline
trapper
micheal  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,535
Saginaw, Mi
I only eat the meat

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043734
11/03/17 07:22 AM
11/03/17 07:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,720
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,720
pa
Shot my share of spikes. Better eating than an old one.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043747
11/03/17 07:55 AM
11/03/17 07:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
Southern WV
A
Anglinscreek Offline
trapper
Anglinscreek  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 430
Southern WV
Eating a tender spike that provides 40 pounds of venison, instead of an adult doe that provides 50 pounds of venison, is silly.

Saying you cant eat the horns, but refusing to shoot does is silly.

Saying you just love to hunt, but end your season at 7:30 a.m. on the first deer you see is silly.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043761
11/03/17 08:31 AM
11/03/17 08:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,706
Ohio
Ronaround Offline
trapper
Ronaround  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,706
Ohio
in ohio around crop land areas we always have twins and triplets constantly. most on the 15 months and above generally have minimum of 4 points. problem is, we also have lots of Amish and we cant watch a 4 year old and above mature. As in others states spikes and buttons count as a doe tag. so more bucks down.
Meat is good but, I sure would like a 5-6 walk past more often.

Re: Spike buck [Re: jeff karsten] #6043775
11/03/17 08:55 AM
11/03/17 08:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,460
havelock, NC
Rye Offline
trapper
Rye  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,460
havelock, NC
Originally Posted By: jeff karsten
then why do the deer ranches cull their buck herd


Those "Culls" are 3.5 year old deer. They dont' cull 1.5 year old bucks. Thats an important piece of information to keep in mind. They've let that buck get to 3.5 and determine that the rack Genetics aren't what they want in the herd.


"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living; the world owes you nothing; it was here first. "
--Mark Twain.

Re: Spike buck [Re: AJE] #6043781
11/03/17 09:02 AM
11/03/17 09:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,460
havelock, NC
Rye Offline
trapper
Rye  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,460
havelock, NC
Meat hunting is one thing, and I don't knock anyone that drops deer for meat. I do it myself (focused on does for meat) With that said, I've heard the adage that you can't boil antlers long enough to eat - and it's true no doubt. Killing a mature buck is a challenge. That is why people chase the horns. To catch a well educated free range/public land buck off his guard and get a shot off, esp with a bow, is a feat. The measure of the buck killed is in the experience in getting him. The hunting industry is finally coming around to this concept. Rather than focus on these purchased hunts where they show up and kill a PY buck in 3 days - they are now focusing on following a buck for several seasons and watching grow up. Once fully grown, the chase is on.

Here in Eastern NC, we've had fawn drops recorded in every month EXCEPT Jan and Feb. This means our fawns are spread way out and not all go into the season with the same amount of growth time/age. We also have relatively poor wild nutrition. Add in dog hunting where the majority of the hunters are shooting whatever runs out of the woods you get a very high mortality rate on young deer. Additionally the increase in population of the coyote is severely hurting the herd because of the spread in the fawn drop. Rather than overwhelming the coyotes with food for a month or two, it's going on all summer at a trickle thus giving them a steady food supply.

For those that say killing a deer is too easy. I give you this challenge. Hang a camera in the late spring. Follow the photos until late August. Select ONE deer. Buck or doe and hunt that ONE until you kill it. In this you'll find the challenge of hunting a single deer. Killing just any deer isn't a challenge.. Killing one in particular is a different story.


"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living; the world owes you nothing; it was here first. "
--Mark Twain.

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