????? has anyone ever asked you how many NWCOA CEUs you have before accepting your proposal?

Sounds like someone has been doing a bunch of research.

First of all, I am now a NWCOA member and this is not criticism, just a fact. I have never heard anyone that was not connected to the

ADC business ever use the word or initials NWCOA.

My answer would be I don't know.

NWCOA used to publish a list of CEU credits for training conducted before 2012 but there is no current public listing that I am aware of. Then I'd explain that I'd received more than 150 CEU hours before the certification program had been changed in 2011 limiting the type of training that would qualify for credits. I'd further explain that NWCOA gives credit to training (articles, DVD's, on-line media, classroom, etc.) based on whether or not their certification committee determines that it is relevant to a wildlife control business, that the instructor meets their criteria, and that I can proved proof of reading/viewing or attending the class. This means that even though I found an article/book/DVD/TV show/training/etc. very beneficial, I may not receive any credit for it unless it has already been approved and quantified by NWCOA. In order to see if that particular training will be credited, I'd have to submit the training outline, instructor bio, and proof of attendance (or with books/publications/DVD/TV submit a special form that I filled out) along with a fee to have it reviewed. For any training I attend where I am unable to provide the required information, such as a trapping demonstration at a convention, I do not receive any CEU credits.

Then I'd finish with, why do you ask?

I can't say that we have ever been asked. However, I think college degrees make the point mute. The question from the custmer probably has more to do with educational qualifications....rather than just field experience. There is a lot of skill gained from the field....but from a customers perspective....if you can hire someone with both...why not?

Soon to be a CWCP too! Whoot!!

I think it would be a pro active selling point

"When shopping around for a bat expert, make sure the ha e certifiable credentials, like the nwcoa bat operator certificate"

Throwback,

Why do you feel that a certificate shows that the person is certifiable? Before this gets out of hand, I'm not picking on any particular training program, nor trying to promote my own, I'm just curious why you think this way.

For instance, does this mean that because someone has a hunting license, trapping license, pest control license, or heck even a driver license that it automatically makes them qualified or is it more along the lines of setting minimum standards? If it is minimum standards, then where do they start. Does it start with state requirements (business license than activity license/permits) or does it require the state to have an actual licensing program? If the state has a licensing program does that automatically make it the minimum or is something else required to do so and if so, who decides what that is? Will lecture only/Internet training suffice or does it need to be hands-on or a combination of both? Does a test need to be involved to show they understand the material or does there need to be an "apprenticeship" under a qualified individual/company, neither or something else?

I think that your viewpoint will be good as you've recently starting working for a bat company that does their own qualification/training from what you've previously posted.

I think I've got this covered. My wife says I've been certifiable for as long as she's known me!

Paul:
her opinion and .65 can get you a cup of coffee almost
anywhere!!!

Jerry Pickel

Hey Jerry, it's great to hear from you. It's been a while. But let's just keep that last thought to ourselves. I'm just getting over

the "dead animal in the garbage for a week" fiasco.

I have been doing this work for a long time along with my other professions. The only question we get asked more frequently then ever is if we are insured or not. And if so, they would like to see a copy of our certificate of insurance.

State licensing is required in many states or testing has been implemented to meet some type of accepted standards of credibility for our type of work. Any good trade field benefits by having a representing association in place. I think most will agree with that as long as things are competently forged and governed by qualified individuals with reasonable standards in place for their industry.

I would presume from my experience that most consumers feel you are qualified or you wouldn't be advertising or have logo's on your vehicle, dress code representing your trade and obviously your professional presence and knowledge determined along the way.

If resolution of the problem is professionally executed its all good for the average consumer.

However in some cases, looks and appearances can be deceiving as can ones abilities. A fact many of us have witnessed or experienced personally.

I am not considered a certified professional according to NWCOA standards. However, I have been doing multi specie ADC/nuisance wildlife work since the mid 1970's. Does that mean that I don't measure up or meet their standards? Not at all. However training and meeting some sort of standards is important to help prepare and educate our industry personnel.

For some it may seem advantageous in using your training background as part of your job selling program. I have never had to do that for our own business game plan. However if you feel it works for you then by all means utilize your shingle for credibility support.

I guess Paul and I would both be considered certifiable by many,.

Bob, I think you are right in your points. I also believe that the way the economy has shifted over the last 10 years, more degreed people are entering the field. Part of the draw is the lack of demand for degrees in all the other fields. How many students are stuck with tens of thousands in student loans....and $10/hour jobs? That being the case, potential customers are observing this when comparing service companies.

The nuisance wildlife field is becoming the new go to industry. It was once, not too long ago, a desired trendy profession to become a teacher. Then there was all the start up roofers and landscape business' that didn't require a degree to start up a professional trade.

Now there are doggy doo doo business' trending out there and pet sitters etc.. I wonder what will be next.

Well...this business is just complicated enough to make it tough to get going.

It is certainly a multi faceted unique required skill set as a matter of fact. Requiring a lot of time served to achieve all the levels of training and confidence needed to get the machine up and running well.

I have been told that my certifications made a customer choose me over competitors.
Certifications issued by nationally-recognized industry organizations (and every mature profession has one) simply prove to the customer that somebody knows his stuff, and often agrees to certain standards of integrity. Obviously, Bob, Eric and Wink know their stuff - some of the sharpest guys in the industry - but Joe Sixpack don't know that. He will, however, give credence to a "nationally certified" label.

To clarify, I don't think that the certs mean anything to be honest. Nothing is stopping me from opening cal bat school And handing out diplomas for cash. I just was pointing out that a company could be proactively promoting there credentials, meaningless or not. Heck, I tell people that I am a member of nwcoa, all that means is I wrote a check.

And yes, I am sub contracting for get bats out, and they trained in house and there were a few other things I had to Do, nothing strenuous either. On a side note, the deal there is going very well and I am still happy with them.

I see this a big reason for some to get certified. Paul, Bob, Eric and other older operators can show up and get a lot of respect, and people assume they know whats going on. For instance, those guys can claim the have been trapping for 20 years (Wink can claim to have trapped with Daniel Boone). I can barely claim to be alive for that long, so I really do have to explain myself sometimes. SOme certificates might help back that up.

references/referrals........

I personally believe in taking training and I like the idea of certifications that mean something.

However, and this is a big easy point here. If you are a good sales person and can sell yourself
and your services, the rest often won't be the deciding point. We all know people buy services
from hacks and those who have no honesty and integrity and won't come back when the services
fail, how did they get the job over the next guy?

You could say it was because they were the lowest bidder likely, but that isn't always true. In fact
I've have a number of these fine folks get jobs just because they were the first person the client called
simple as that. They were personable and earned the trust and got the job...

What I personally like about training is that I can acquire a new skill set or begin to learn a new field.

Just prior to starting this company I took bird barriers training (I had never installed or sold bird exclusion
or anything related before), I took Eric's Bat Management course (I had never excluded or worked with bats
in that capacity before) and I went to WCT and again learned about many things and services I didn't ever
work with before.

All of these were worth paying for for me personally. Maybe not for the next guy, maybe so. While we can
all learn by trial and error it costs a great deal of money to do so, it uses time better spent making more money
or with family and relaxing.

What I like about training is shortening the learning curve and I have to say that I never expect to be an expert
or have someone hire me specifically because I took a single training course be it one hour, one day or a week.

An avenue in life I've been working on sideline to what I do with wildlife and our primary company found me in
the presence of a craftsman who works with an art and skill that many look up to this guy for. He is a humble guy
and when I took his short course on this subject matter which was hands on and some limited classroom as well there
are many things I took away that I could practice and make money and earn a living on.

The thing though I will say here and many have heard it before in one form or another is that they say it takes 10,000
hours to gain mastery over a trade or practice.

Now while many things might not take that long, the point is this, I don't go to trainings and expect to come out and tell folks
"yup I'm an expert now, that class says I am."

I do like the idea I have a basic competence in the subject matter or the tools of that trade, however telling most folks honestly say
a bird exclusion client where I'm bidding to do a commercial netting job that is fairly complicated, that I took a one day course
from the supplier and they gave me a little piece of paper that says I'm a certified installer doesn't make me think the folks are going
to instantly think that is worth them picking me over a guy who comes in, sells himself and his products, can talk the talk and walk the
walk and impresses them and lands the job.

Yes we can all agree if nationally every homeowner knew an association like they know what popcorn and gasoline are, it is likely a stamp
or training from them would carry weight with the homeowner. We however have a fragmented industry and many opinions, many angles
and ultimately my clients do not know what my associations are that I belong to, none of them.

They don't know the wildlife society, they don't know NWCOA, they don't know the wildlife disease society, most haven't heard of BCI, nor
any other professional group I pay money to or have participated in training with.

I may refer to these various groups if germane to the discussion, but ultimately I am selling myself, my honesty, my integrity, my warranty of
goods and services sold and my personality as well. If they like all of that, I don't need to talk about anyone else or anything else in terms of
stamps, certifications, etc...

To summarize, I again like training, like the idea of certs and basic competency. The devil is in the details though, we all know anyone can be
fully trained, agree to follow standards, or what they learned and walk right out the door and do otherwise, it is the nature of any trade or any
profession, so in the end if your client is savvy to life in general and isn't a youngster, they know what matters is more often than not your word
and your commitment that they can see, read or hear in your communication.

Remember, basic competence earned in a classroom ultimately never replaces what you will see and do in the field itself, this was the same when
I was in college for wildlife management, when I worked for the feds as a wildlife biologist and researcher and in this career now running my company.

I pay to learn every day and I'll quote Eric on this one, "I haven't lost money, but I've paid a lot for my education."

I love this field because it is open, I do wish we had a larger group all under one umbrella working together for a common goal that works for all
but much as I hear everyday on talk radio, in the paper and on the tv, getting any large group of people to agree on any subject is a really big ask, everyone
has their own agenda and though you can get some to agree, getting enough to agree and join and make it matter to enough of our regulatory authorities who
issue permits, licenses and govern the wildlife we work with is a whole other issue altogether.

Thats my $1.25 on this subject, I will always be looking for quality training opportunities to add new skills and open my mind to new avenues for my business, I won't ever expect to leave any of them being so fully versed in the subject that no further learning need occur. This winter I plan to take at least 3 different courses that tie in to my business model each is at least $1,500.00 and come with certain certs and so forth, and they are from groups that are recognized nationally and even internationally, I will still come out and know I need to practice the skills and what I learned to head toward someday mastering them.

Okay, maybe $1.50......

Justin