Several PM's have made feel I should answer this question publicly.

Q) "What would you suggest is the best way to learn to properly call coyotes ?"

A) I would strongly suggest spending time with someone who is experienced in calling coyotes.
By that I mean, very experienced ! 10 years would be a minimum.
Doing otherwise can teach one bad habits that will end up costing you in the end.
It's always better to learn from others mistakes than to go out and make them on your own.

That said, if that isn't possible, then I would read, watch and listen to everything I could about calling coyotes.

The late Bill Austin had a series of audio tapes, 'The Call of the Coyote.'
Bill was a master at calling coyotes using calls to mimic their own language.
He knew what to say and when to say it and what they said in return.
I would urge anyone who wanted to learn from the best, to get his audio tapes.

One might just Google the above for more information.

The late Vern Dorn of Wyoming also had a series of calling and denning Videos out on VHS format.
It is, I believe, still sold by O'Gorman Enterprises, INC in Montana.
Some unbelievable footage and info on western coyotes.
Yes, it's in VHS and most people don't even have those anymore.
Probably the only set back.

A lot of good calling DVD's out for fur hunters and also a lot of good mouth calls.
Chris Lyons,( a T-Man member on here who goes by lynoch, I think ) is said to be one of the best callers around.
One might seek Chris' advice.
Never hurts to know too much !

I didn't follow directions very well, "March is for denning season"

From what I've read and people told me that eastern yote dens differ at times from western yote dens, meaning here in the east, or should I say piney woods of east Texas, the dens could be tree root ball from when it blew down and fell back over creating a hole in the ground, or even a thicket that provides enough cover, old buildings and barns so on and so forth, even though I have spent some time in the woods I have never found any dens, but then again I could have walked within 30 yards of one and not known it, I have talked to some of the older trappers around here about dens, and they said sometimes you can smell them and sometimes you don't, but one thing they all said that was in common is look for buzzards around the area where you suspect a den may be, any one have any experience on finding eastern dens or have some of the same experiences

There are some up this way, a lot who are hounders, who go out at 3-4 a:m and use a siren to locate them by listening to the response. The theory is that is the time of night they are back at the den, just before heading out for the morning hunt. They call for a response, then quit before "moving" the coyote. Mark the spot and come at daylight with the dogs and hit the fresh track.
I was along one time with some many years ago who did it that way. Not sure if it's the best way but it may get you closer to the unknown denning area.

This is a very good point here coyotes open den. They have their pups in thickest, old hollow logs, stump blow downs, old buildings and evan beaver lodges that are above water. Their den location once the pups have their eyes open can be a hay field. They move the den daily sometimes multiple times a day. Another point LT forgot to mention sometimes coyotes have subordinate female or two running with the mated pair. When you disturb the denning area they immediately begin to move the pups while either the male and female or evan the male and a juvenile yearly protect the the denning area as a rear guard. I agree with Boone and LT until you learn coyote vocalizations do not use them... I have been calling for 30 years and very seldom use a challenge. I do like the pup distress and a location howl. But I do not set up immediately after locating because I feel you bump into the coyote once you get them agitated and moving. Better to wait and let them cool down and forget about you then move on them.

I didn't "forget to mention" it sparky, I'm just hoping somebody else will add to what I say...

So, thank you for bringing up a very good point !

Good to see Mr. Dorn mentioned LT! He was a very close friend of my father in law and family. We were talking about him just last weekend. I have seen some Dorn dogs flat confound many a coyote for sure.

I use fawn bleats too. One time I was bleating away snuggled up against a tree trunk with a rose bush next to it. All of the sudden the rose bush hit me in the head. I rolled out away from the bush and a saw a doe had come up and kick at me while calling. She stood there giving me the evil eye for about three seconds before she backed up a little. I don't think she liked me laughing at her. Fawn bleats work well for me. I usually call a little and wait. Usually call about 45 minutes or an hour if I think I should be getting some action. A decoy helps.
When I find a den I have to move in right away like Lt Grey says- the land is cut up so much in my area that I can't follow and might not ever find a litter again. Sometimes it can take till fall to find them again. I get calls once in a while in towns but the rules won't let me shoot or trap in town unless I use a cage so I usually hunt for the den and try to get them to move out and away from the place where they have been making trouble. There are a couple large cemeteries in town that have coyotes living in old brush /junk piles. I even saw a den in an old crypt one time. They are always in the same areas. Usually no one complains. The ones that live close to town travel into town for the easy pickings. They use the railroad beds to take short cuts.
A lady helping at a local wildlife sanctuary decided to pet one the coyotes there. It bit off one of her fingers.
When it gets warm out check your sets early in the morning before the sun gets up. The animals get hot fast and can die of heat stroke. It's bad press if people see a dead animal in your trap.
I've never had dogs. It sounds like it would work pretty well.
Anyone have any experience with mountain lions? I have only ever seen sign one time. It came to a dairy farm where I was working and jumped over a fence into where some bucket calves were. It killed one and jumped back over the fence with the calf. The fence was about 3' high. It somehow was able to carry the calf quite a ways before setting it down. I tracked it for about 1/4 mile in the snow but having no gun I stopped.

I don't have enough experience to contribute much, but I sure plan to keep a sharp eye on this post!

MikeD

I have ran Mt. Lion since I was old enough to walk. It would be child's play for a lion to pack off a calf. Best way to deal with a predation issue with lions is by the use of hounds. I would bet the lion in Illinois are not as dog wise as some of the ones around here.

Lion are really just BIG cats and curiosity really does kill the cat. They are easy to trap if you can put your attractant in an area they are working in. I don't know the travel patterns of the lion back there or if this particular lion is a sub adult, adult male, adult female, female with cubs etc. All of these factor in to how they pattern. One would think if this lion found an easy food source it will come back. Lion very very seldom eat carion. They do, but usually only when dang hungry, so using food bait is a waist of time. They believe in killing it themselves. They will bury some kills and re visit their stash, especially if they are rearing kittens. If this lion snatches another calf and drags it off, leave it alone and set some WELL anchored blind sets. I do not recommend the use of drag for someone who is not well experienced with lion. They can and do attack if cornered. They can kill a human without effort.

If you have more info or details on this specific lion I would be happy to try and help with info if possible.

I've used fawn bleats/cries to fill many a doe tag. Especially, if I see a doe off in the distance with a young deer. For some reason they usually come right in and start huffing and puffing.

That being said, when I hunt coyotes, I typically do not use fawn in distress in the fall unless I can see the coyote is hung up and unsure. But, by that point I am just trying anything to get him to close the distance a bit.

Thats interesting that you mentioned these other baits. According to a friend last year they had a yote trapper on their hunt club that was using marshmallows for bait.

Grapes are toxic to dogs. So you may not have to dispatch a coyote if you use them...lol

I'm not trying to step on a lot of toes here but to even remotely suggest that a predator trapper doing animal damage control work on stock killing coyotes should use grapes and marshmallows as bait is down right laughable.
Sure, I will admit that a coyote can at times be taken on unusual baits, as a coyote will eat most anything.
But to suggest we go after stock killers with carrots and watermelons...I'd have to see your credentials !

Comments like that don't even belong on serious predator control post.
You might catch a coyote on a sweet bait now and then but you won't make a living as a predator control trapper doing it.
Randomly catching a coyote here and there on a bait is one thing, making a living as a control trapper with a carrot and a grape as bait ?

Here is how you do it,
Go out on the ice and dig a hole with your auger. Then sprinkle peas all around and make a line with peas up to the hole. Then hide behind a snow bank and wait for the coyote to come up to your set, then jump out and kick him in the icehole..lol

Man, I've been doing it wrong then...

Now LT don't tell me they don't let you protect them there watermelons. That is priority here gotta protect the watermelons.

Yes, but do you want me to set a trap by every watermelon ?

Or would you rather me put some watermelon down a dirt hole in a field pull of them ?


Neither is how I would catch coyotes raiding a field...

Actually sweet corn oil works well in water melon field. But a trick that works here is to use fish oil on a watermelon that the coyote already broke into. Cause more than likely a coon was the actual first culprit. And gang set a watermelon field can lead to a very destroyed watermelon field.

Lots of things work but none in that situation will work better than finding where the coyotes are entering and/or exiting the field and put in flat sets / trail sets with (fresh) coyote droppings.

Dry fields leave a lot a lot of tale tale sign in the dirt.

I pick up fresh dropping throughout the year and freeze them.
I have also dried them and also have re-hydrated them.
I use plain rain water and do it right at the set.

Coyote use defecation as a form of communication more than many trappers realize.
Meaning, quite often, they do it with a purpose in mind.
And that is to let others know who was there...and why.

My thread : "What droppings teach us", showed in detail that very thing for those that read it !

Ok the months April through August. All joking aside. There are only two main priorities for coyotes feeding their young and protecting their young. As LT mentioned above Sign and Location. I think he had a thread, Location Location and Location. In that thread he had stated that coyote do not go long distances for lure and that you had to almost make them trip over your set. I can attest to that when I was helping another student do her masters degree work in college we did a study on lure and bear and coyote response. Bait wise Sardines, bacon and bacon grease got the most responses on our bait line store bought lures were so, so. On coyotes and bears both, the wolf urine got the most attention with mountain lion next. Coyotes also responded favorable to bear urine. But wolf urine during the times they were raising pups would get the most response. Clint Locklear has also stated that in the summer wolf urine will "get into the mind of a dominate male coyote faster than any other product". I have used wolf urine to target the Alpha male before. It will not work well on the subordinate coyote real well but it will make the dominate male work a entire scent line. But the main thing LT teaches and re-teaches is Location! That is one lesson that people get lazy and forget. If you keep your basics down and work the sign that is how you nail the coyotes in the off season.