If we were digging into a cave in the winter, where there were bats napping, that would be us going in on there territory, and it would be stopped by the state. Our homes are ours, and we should be able to protect them/and ourselves.Anyone who thinks we are bad guys for doing so is dreaming in color. Wisconsin wrote the bat law that way.
I dont understand why you would choose to protect the bats over our own species when it comes down to it. I truely dont believe you do. I honestly believe you should have been in the White House with that politically correct statement.

Mike,

Which statement, just for clarity.

It was Daves post I was referring to HD. I am not a bat hater, nor am I a bat hugger. I worked for the federal govt. for 15 years, and had my fill of people scared of there own shadow when it comes to pretty much anything controversial. Its no wonder our country is in the shape its in. Everyone wants to politically correct whether they believe what they are saying or not.

Thanks for the clarification Mike,

I assume most folks would agree that the "issues" people have with bats in their home fall generally into one category.

1) Fear (rational or otherwise)

2) Potential Disease Risk (rabies or histoplasmosis)

3) Damage/Odor (insulation/wood/urine/droppings)

I know there are other tweaks to each of these that concern other areas but these are usually the major issues.

I guess my thoughts boil down to if the people have bats in their home and notice it in winter during some movement
or noise/scratching, other... What stops us from waiting until spring?

Is it that the people are so afraid of the bats being the building over winter, and then can't we seal them out of the internal
structure without causing any possible harm in the process?

I've had clients as I'm sure many of you have especially those decades into this work, that are so afraid of bats or the single
bat in the house that they sleep in the bathtub (I had this just this year) or they cover all their electronics and surfaces with
drop cloth because they think even one single bit of guano is enough to kill or injure them (again this year).

I also had a client who wouldn't even take my card, which has a pic of a bat on it, but by the end of the day she took all my
cards and was completely changed over from being so afraid of bats to understanding why they were using her house and
how exclusion was going to make this right again.

I don't discount that there are some situations that occur that make it necessary to exclude even during winter, my proposal
is just that the best practice if we think bats are hibernating would be to at least attempt (as we do for maternity season) to
get the folks to feel safe and secure until we can exclude at an opportune time for bat biology.

Again, the people are safe, the bats are on their way, problem solved....

I do think we are going to see changes to laws and regulations, it is a natural consequence of looking for ways to minimize any
further damage to bat populations in a time when so many uncertainties exist.

Big brown and little brown bats of course are two that most folks work with as excluders that use caves and have been found
with WNS or suffer severe losses. Losses have been greater to little browns but the big browns are impacted. As populations dwindle
biologists and researchers will be looking for other ways to track and study remaining populations, and those that choose wintering
in homes could be of high value due to avoiding the G. destructans fungus.

If states list these species, along with other uncommon structure users the impact could be immediate to the ability to do what has
traditionally been acceptable. Right or wrong, much like Ron's thread on the single bat holding up a bridge project, laws can prevail
where logic seems to have left the building.

I definitely don't believe people are wrong to want to protect their home from any manner of issues, it is the largest investment most
people make as we all know, my hope is we can find better ways every year to mitigate bat issues while educating the public.

I believe this is where our profession can and does shine. Educate the homeowner (public), while solving their problem in an effective
manner.

Ok, gotta go do some proposals before the wife catches me eating up my day!

Justin

In winter months my phone rings less( Mainly because I live where I do) And some folks do refuse to do bat removals after Dec. However I don't mind. I actually charge less because of the fact that I am not getting 15 calls a day. I make it clear to them that it may be spring when the animals go out. I also figure that with all the homes side by side, if they do venture out and cant get back in, they will more than likely go to the neighbors, just like in the fall. The bats actually do know the neighborhood, raccoons dont have the market cornered on having multiple hang outs.

Mike it is a good point and we all know examples of roost switching bats, which some species are notorious for big brown included.

I always think not of the core group on T'man who might have many decades of experience with a particular species, but about guys/gals
who are thinking of starting a company or lurking.

If they are in a more remote or rural area and see what seems like good sense that the bats will roost switch, they might not take the right
action, which can happen anyway, but I'm always thinking about the folks who aren't commenting even more than those who are like ourselves.

I also think part of what has shaped my opinion is the folks who have done decades of bat work some of whom are on this forum and do
not perform full winter bat exclusion, versus partial seal ups and then valves/exclusion in the spring.

It makes me wonder when anyone who knows these folks considers them serious guys with tons of great methods, why we can't adopt the
same mentality and model and succeed?

We are obviously all able to do what we want to do within our laws, it just seems strange that so many get by without doing the winter exclusion
work and yet the clients wait till spring.

Anyway more than my .02 -

Justin

Justin, I agree that a newbie should find a mentor to learn from in the beginning.Sometimes in the efforts to protect a customer, it really is better to do nothing than to do the right thing at the wrong time. After they round the corner they will find themselves smoothing out the rough edges and developing a system of there own. We dont really live in the information age, we live in the misinformation age, where manipulators use all types of media to get people on board with some sort of agenda. I trust myself to do the right thing allot more than I do following some advice from Joe Schmuckatelli in a differant climate than I am.( Not talking bout you Justin so take the paranoia cape off)
I will entertain the views of others in the industry as long as they dont go all NWCOA on people and start jamming there ideals down the entire countries throats as if we all live in Nebraska.

I do agree, 1 size doesn't fit all states, all bat species or wildlife species for that matter and thus complicates all folks somehow getting on one
page. I do believe most folks have good intentions, the misinformation era is correct though, the amount of things people can "learn" that you
need them to "unlearn" is immense.

In my area there was a statement made by a local official that there were approximately 120 coyote within an 11.3 square mile urban area.

I'm getting to help unravel that one for them, but just another example.

Dialogue is never a bad thing and I don't ever expect to agree 100% with even 15-20 people let alone my whole industry. I tend to fly my own
direction and when it lines up with others that is a bonus, but when it doesn't I pitch my thoughts out there and if embraced great, if not, I move
on...

I like that "cape of paranoia!" lol!

Just for proving the "misinformation" point Mike, check out this great pic of a "fruit bat" I was called to pick up last year! Poor pallid bat didn't know
what to do with the fruity baby food this guy provided after his cat attacked the bat on their porch.

He thought about keeping it too, which is a whole other story.........

You got "fruit bats" out your way as well, imagine that. Here I thought only Georgia had the rare north american fruit bat.
I'm glad you cleared up what's in that little container I thought it might be honey mustard or sweet and sour dipping sauce.

Dipping sauce! I hadn't even thought of that aspect!

What disturbs me even more is to look at some “professional” web sites that display a fruit bat as their only bat picture. Some also display a sugar glider as a flying squirrel or other animals not found in their area, e.g., a diamondback rattlesnake from a site in the Northeast part of the country. I have received many calls for fruit bats here too.

Several customers each year seem surprised that the bats in there home are insectivores, and do not subsist on human blood.(Just lucky I suppose) To top that off are the ones who think bats will turn to dust and die if they go out in the sunlight. Some folks even ask what my bat detector looks like. I try not to laugh at them. Once again, being raised in the misinformation age shows its ugly head.

Best statement I've seen for a while.

Becomes so obvious as mentioned regarding the ridiculous things people will ask or "tell us" relating to their animal issues. They have "learned" so much by reading the wrong info online, they think WE are the ones who are nuts.

As far as this entire post and somewhat derailed direction (people verses animals), I can't say I've read anything in this thread where anyone is actually placing saving an animal before a human. If so, they are seriously twisted and should get into another line of work.

At least 95% of the time a bat issue can be dealt with while protecting the residents (human) in conjunction with positive bat conservation. I don't lose any sleep over the other 5%. As Mike says... it's our home and WE are #1 on the list.

Sadly, it's when the DIYers deal with things the ratio is reversed. WCO's are the best thing that's ever happened for bats.

AMEN

I usually just carry a cross, a mirror, and a bunch of toothpicks made out of ash to plunge into their tiny little hearts.

Dont forget the garlic Paul!

Dang it, I always forget something. No wonder I'm the oldest guy ever to be asked to appear in a twilight series.

...and holy water! Don't forget holy water!

Dave,

I don't think anyone really knows (wns found in any structure dewelling bats). There have been bats found with wing damage from structures, but can it definitively be stated that it was caused by WNS or was it something else?

To the best of my knowledge there hasn't been a lot of (or any for that matter any) research on WNS and buildings to date. I'm sure this is an area where research will be focused but it is a matter of funding. There just isn’t enough money to go around for everything that needs to be done.

Some of the issues with doing research along these lines is finding a hibernacula in a structure, not being able to physically see the bats during hibernation, bats grooming the fungus off of themselves, and successful capture of the bats as they leave the structure to name just a few. Then you get into the physical characteristics of the fungus with temperatures, growth conditions, survivability of the spores, length of exposure for infection, cross contamination with other bats, etc. Just think about how much research like this costs.

I did hear about a test they are using that is similar to a gunpowder residue test (they swipe the bat with a q-tip and if it turns purple then G. destructans spores are present), but I don't know how successful or widely used the test is.