Don, that is my interest as well. Contrary to to some I am not seeing "black helicopters" everywhere. I am sure that to someone in charge somewhere it must make some sort of sense or fit the master plan and maybe I can't see the forest for the trees. All I can see from my little half acre of ground is that WS is a direct competitor to me and were the door open to me I could do so much more.
Could someone, somewhere please call me and at least let me feel that someone is even aware and concerned as I am. I'm not asking to be let in on the TOP SECRET plot to overthrow the USDA just something to reassure me that while I'm pecking away at my level to infiltrate the barriers to work somewhere someone is pecking away at the other end.
All this thread deleting and us'uns vs you'uns just creates in my mind bad thoughts about folks I think I should working with and not against.
This should never be about each other or groups or other such nonsense but how we are helping each other.

whats adc pro boards?

LT's site.

http://adcnetwork.proboards.com/index.cgi

That's what I'm afraid of. LOL

Don, David and others,

I want to post this just as a general info to anyone not too much in the know but also add some info for those who have been involved. There are several things in this thread that keep the wheels turning and I'm sure they do for many involved and those on the outskirts.

1) I am former WS (most of you know, some probably don't), having spent a decade in both operations, research and disease programs and serving in multiple states (MI, OR, NM, WA, AK) I've seen the program from many many angles.

2) I understand the competition issues that are of concern to nwco's and to a growing industry

3) I understand why WS isn't looking to just remove themselves from operation to allow private industry to attempt to replace them entirely.

4) I empathize with both sides and that won't change

So the things I wanted to address are as follows;

1) Meetings / Guest Speakers - I feel it is an offensive action to ask the same folks you want to remove from the ability to make a living at what they are doing, to come and speak, educate, provide training to an audience at either venue currently scheduled to have them there.

Just as a human being, the idea of having a guest speaker come knowing that the room is full of knives and daggers for his/her hide is frankly ridiculous.

Why then are they there? Because they are asked to be there and as I'm told they are providing a service they must render, whether they desire to be there or not. I asked this question recently of folks in planning for one of these conferences and that was the answer, because they must provide the service as part of their mission.

I still think it is horrible but know that WS probably doesn't worry themselves over it.

2) How do you change the current competition issue? Three options come to mind

a) change the congressional act they operate under to dictate a modified mission

b) get the management (admin level) to top down change the program from within to meet what nwco's want to see

c) get your district, or state level folks to play along with you within your state by working out your own deal or pushing
your local buttons.

3) I know that there are some huge contracts that folks want and many high profile deals that people want as well and that the industry
is growing in that direction where conflict will become more apparent.

I still believe that the average operator doing typical homeowner and commercial work will cross paths far less with WS than with the
several hundred competitors in some midwest and eastern counties.

Anyway, that is my .02 - I know why the debate rages on, but I think folks need to get realistic, and while I support any move politically
having someone on the advisory committee or even two people won't change the policy overnight, or even in a year or two, ask the anti's
that are on that committee about what they've pushed for and received and they are massive in member number and aren't fighting among
themselves like this group does daily.

Best,

Justin

The interface between competitors (whether it's two WCO companies or one WCO and one WS office) varies from state to state, or rather, from state director to state director. Some are underhanded and ruthless and feel it is in their best interest (job security) to disrupt/interfere/underbid any and all private WCOs in their area of responsibility. Call it arrogance, lack of trust, machismo, ego, whatever. Others understand the strengths and limitations of both their staff and those local WCOs and are willing to have a working relationship. I personally refer well over 100 calls to two of competitors every year, and even notify them when I'll be out of town so they know not to refer business back my way until then. The same thing happens between WS and WCOs in some locales, but apparently not in yours, Warrior, and that's a shame. There will always be competition, whether it's WS, PCOs, or other WCOs, but a working relationship benefits all, and raises the bar on professionalism and customer service, which in turn generates more business.
We in VA "thought" we had a great state director years ago and even invited him to our local "beaver camp", where the group would camp on some tree company land and trap for a couple weeks. During one of these camps this particular WS director found out a good portion of our leads and work came from the highway dept, so the next spring he secured a statewide contract with VDOT to handle all beaver work for them, cutting out 40-50 trappers that used to trap for the highway dept for free (or real cheap), and it has been that way ever since. Luckily he was transferred before any of us could get him alone and drop him to the bottom of a drowning rig. I can't say the damage he caused has been completely undone, but more and more localities are no longer contacting WS to do beaver work because their 3 or 4 operators just can't cover the state effectively like the old director promised VDOT. However, VDOT is stubborn and too stupid to decline renewing their annual contract. We (my company) have had a contract on some of their old stomping grounds for the last 5 years and WS will NEVER be able to take that away from us because we're just too d_mn good. We could be proactive and start proving our worth in other counties, but truth is, we have too much work just with this one city. If we ever want to expand our business and overtake other counties, it wouldn't be hard with our track record and glowing reports from current municipal customers.

It is not right for a govermnent to compete with private industry. However, until this industry comes together as a group of serious professionals, change is going to be an uphill battle. With the bickering among the groups and individuals...and documented on a public forum...really?

I appreciate the volunteers at NWCOA for their service, regardless of their personal positions. You have to have some passion to deal with the infighting.

Justin, do not worry, I will welcome the WS fella and I bet a few other guys will too. Now, how do we get that fiddle???

They go Because I have to, Justin that is not the full story I would suggest. The same reasoning is given when WS branches out and take over a large Beaver job that was begin conducted by Private industry. They say because I have to , this in regards to a request from any taxpayer they must respond. Truthful yes, also a great defense. WS is a Public program, ran by politics, always has been and always will. It will also ends by politics, if it ends. It has changed departments many times because of public pressure. It is the big picture that needs to change and until it does, if it does, the individuals need to be respected, communicated with and mutually benefited. One year I believe Bill Clay attended both big events and spoke to the groups. WS understands the benefit of public support. The division really has no need to be exist. Some of there functions are in deed governmental, majority are not. So boycotting them is not a fair or wise move. As some have mentioned above, we need to communicate and having a working relationship with those we can and do all we can as a group to redo the system. Pretty complicated issue and needs many minds talking and working together for any type of change.

Dave, you fiddle around too much now.

Okay guys: so how does one find out if Wildlife Services is doing any work in their area?

FOIA? Too busy to even care, though.

I was anti USDA WS before it was cool. I think it is always healthy to discuss them in public. None of us can compete with the public sector .

I remember not long ago few even thought the problem was as huge as it is in some markets. Keep TimJ, EricA, TrapperDon and NWCOA informed.

Everything USDA WS does is legal, not that what they do is right; this just means they have the federal authority to operate under the direction of Congress.

The kind of changes that need to be done will require taking a society that wants everything for free to want to pay for wildlife removal services.

Dave is right. Thats the Freedom of Information Act. It cost us well over $300.00 to get the info for work done in our state from WS for the last three years.
Don LaFountain

Don, I disagree. I was in Lexington when a lot of people ( including yours truly ) embarrassed the heck out of the president of the Humane Society of the United States. ( This organization is the most dangerous one in the USA, in my opinion )

Now maybe Ohio doesn't have a lot of competition from Wildlife Services and just wants them to tell us why other states do. But if WS is a problem in Ohio, who to better have as the Keynote Speaker?

Now if the NRA could get Biden as the Keynote, wouldn't that be something to witness?

I haven't been able to find out if WS is costing any private jobs in Wisconsin, but if they are, I will certainly recommend them as our Keynote Speaker for WWCOA.

Why were two individuals from WS invited to speak at WCT this year? Because of the knowledge they have and are willing to share.

Dr. Joe Caudell is more than qualified to speak on his two topics, zoonotic diseases and firearms. He is one of the zoonotic disease biologists that happens to work for WS. He is also one of the four individuals that created the WS firearms training program. With more and more projects requiring firearms, it only made sense to invite someone with the experience to discuss their usage in a wide variety of settings and species usage.

I was first introduced to Andy Montoney back in 2005 when he contacted me about a meeting he was participating with concerning the rabies barrier break in Ohio. The reason was he wanted help in getting test animals from the Ohio WCOs to determine how far the barrier had been broken. Since that time I have spoken with him on multiple occasions and while I don't agree with 100% of his views, I sure can appreciate them. Last year he spoke at WCT about Form 36 which requires WS to review actions taken and recommend solutions in order for a WCO to receive the permit to resolve issues with protected birds. This year he will be talking about incorporating shotguns into wildlife control. I am very happy to have both of these individuals as speakers, giving their time and knowledge making better operators out of the attendees.

As you can see, even through both Dr. Caudell and Mr. Montoney work for WS, their presentations have very little to do with their employer. The time and place to deal with conflict issues is during meetings being held specifically for that purpose. What I don't want to see happen is the exclusion from events of qualified individuals just because of their employment. That is a door that once opened would be very, very hard to close as it must include everyone from speakers to attendees allowing for even more separation in our ranks.

Good answer Eric. We all tend to put people in one classification and that never works. I think the fact that we are involved with actual people way more than we were as fur trappers, puts a different prospective on people in general.