Rather than post separately, though I may do that late tonight when I've got more time.

Lots of wildlife disease issues come up on here and of course everyone has their own take
based on their level of experience, training, education and of course actually contracting or
knowing someone who has contracted a disease, parasite or pathogen.

Here is the least you should know and think about in order to assure your health, the health
of your family and that of your clients.

Nearly 75% of emerging diseases are zoonotic (transmissible from wildlife to humans). This
means that while your doctor or practitioner may know the local diseases, they may be completely
uneducated and unaware of the symptoms and signs of something that just entered our local
wildlife communities.

The best way to treat all wildlife is as though they have the possibility of passing you a pathogen,
virus or parasite. If you use proper PPE, or at least gloves while handling a carcass or cage trap
with a live animal, you lower your chances of problem dramatically.

Everyone that hunts, traps, fishes or camps has all kinds of stories they tell with lots of nostalgia about
how they have handled thousands of critters, or their dad did, or the guy they worked for did, and they
never got sick or contracted any issues.

My response to that is twofold:

1) many wildlife diseases and infections present in humans as a simple cold or flu that require no further
testing. this means you could be infected or be sick many times over but your immune system may be
such that it fights off the new invader.

2) the "luck" of those you know, does not ensure your luck and as you age and are exposed to more
direct contact in close spaces, attics, crawlspaces, etc...you may become closer to being the guy who contracts
something that debilitates them.

I have 15 years in wildlife disease including bovine tb, plague, rabies, johne's disease, pseudorabies, swine brucella,
neospora, CWD and a host of others. This experience has taught me that caution is far better than what comes of
being cavalier and boasting about your immune system.

I know many colleagues who while having their bi annual screening in my old agency, had acquired antibodies to numerous
pathogens that they never realized they'd been exposed to, that could only come through the wildlife-human interface.

*****
I will relate a story that illustrates how the lack of proper ppe can kill you.

A young man who was excellent at his job and very educated about large carnivores, primarily north american cats was
working in the desert southwest with mountain lion. He found a lion that was dead and was a research animal (collared)
so he picked it up and carried it back to his vehicle on his shoulders the way so many carry such an animal. He performed
a gross necropsy in the garage of his home and within a day didn't feel right. He went to the doctor who told him he likely
had a flu or cold and sent him home....

Within 2 days he was deceased, found by colleagues in his bed. In the end after studying what had happened forensically
they identified he contracted pneumonic plague. This differs from bubonic the one carried and transmitted by fleas in that
normally cases in the southwest come from your housecat coughing in your face or similar situations.

In his case they determined that the way he carried the cat back to the truck and into the garage pumped the lungs, though
the cat was dead, essentially it was breathing right next to his face as he walked several miles.

There are two points here.

1) His doctor in an endemic plague state didn't recognize anything but the flu in this patient.

2) While we may have done something thousands of times without negative result....one thousand and one might kill you!

This was a tragic loss for his friends, family, agency and colleagues in research, he was highly respected and I've told his
story over and over again to my old agency staff and to anyone else who will listen.

Don't be stupid!

If you don't care about your own health, think about what a sick you, means to your family and their future!

Remember only you can protect yourself, your workers (which are often family members or friends), and your clients.

This is just a portion of what I thought about writing, but I hope it hits home for some who don't already take good
care of themselves.

It is less about how many animals have what diseases or parasites and more about the level of exposure and your
individual immune system.

Don't throw away your life by dismissing a $16.00 box of nitrile gloves or a good respirator and some training.

Thanks for listening.

Justin

Thanks Justin. I wish there was a "Like" button for posts like this.

Thanks Eric, I've had years of trying to convince "old timers" and trappers to protect themselves as you know.
I always think that if even one or two folks decide to change what they are doing, then I performed my role.

I agree about the like button, of course, I'd also like a dislike button!

Justin

Thanks, Justin. I think your point needs to be driven home to each and every one of us. I'd like to add to the discussion that knowledge is powerful stuff and just might be what saves your neck. I had a customer that contracted typhus from flying squirrels and like the case you cite was diagnosed as having a severe case of the flu. The usual anti virals were administered but it was not until he was into kidney failure that a specialist from the CDC was called in. Fortunately for my client the specialist was very familiar with third world diseases and zoonotics and made the right call just in the nick of time.
Now what if that had been one of us without access to the CDC as we have here in Atlanta? By knowing what it may be you can better advise your physician on what to look for. Or as in another case I studied that happened right here in Georgia. A herpotologist collected an eastern coral and in handling it received a bite. Upon presenting at the ER his story was dismissed out of hand as to being bitten by a coral snake, it was only when he was rendered unconscious that the physician began to believe his story. The long and short was that the family of the herpotogist literally had to instruct to ER doctor on the required protocol and where to obtain antivenom.

We should all be aware of the nasties out there and share that knowledge with our immediate loved ones so that plan A the doctor knows or plan B you inform the doctor or plan C your significant other can speak for you.

Okay, here's the problem with many of us old timers. ( I'm just speaking for me, not everyone ) When you're brought up on the farm and have seen so many different diseases and disgusting injuries, you become mentally immune. I am reasonably sure that I have been in contact with any number of things that could have ( And maybe should have ) proved fatal.

The reason that I don't worry about my life span is because whenever the Good Lord says my time is up, hey, I'm ready. The same is not true for my offspring. I worry about their safety and keep them informed on every new disease that you guys bring up. Every new disease that they're exposed to is the first time and they've not built up an immunity like I probably have.

The truth of the matter is, that everyone of us is a thousand times more likely to get killed in a vehicle and several hundred times more likely to get killed in a fall than any of the diseases mentioned. So if I don't take this as seriously as I should. at least you know the reason why. ( Of course, now that I've said this, you can be almost certain that I will contract some goofy new disease that no one has ever heard of before and ultimately croak )

So risk management is the key to survive natural selection? Great points on falls and autos...

I tend be "old school." Today, smeared my saliva on a bleeding scratch, with my tongue. Saliva is good for wounds. Dogs lick their boo-boos for a reason.

Thanks Justin. Your post is excellent, you have good writing skills.

Keep up the good work. Have you thought abought writing/publishing?

Paul,

Of course I am painfully aware you are more likely to die from any number of ridiculous things, slipping in the tub, falling off a ladder (theres a joke in there) and of course someone texting their way into your lane and killing you with their vehicle.

I guess for me the question would be, if I can prevent the one, but the other is more likely an accident that while I can minimize risk to is simply more prone to happen, why would I want to go from the one I can prevent with gloves, respirator, simple tyvek and other ppe?

I'm saying this in a lighthearted tone to you because I know that I've had the same discussions with other "old timers" in my outfit, many of which grew up on a ranch in the middle of nowhere and the idea some wildlife related or animal related disease could kill them is something that makes most of them chuckle!

However, again, just my job to say why go that way?

I am much like you even though I only just turned 40, I grew up in rural upstate NY in farm country and guess what I even drank out of the pond on occasion when the day was long and hot and long before I knew what giardia was. I cleaned the chicken coop without a respirator (histoplasmosis yay!) and I trapped, skinned, gutted, hunted and did all kinds of things that normal farm kids do.

Is my immune system stronger? The question is stronger than whose? My wife can get food poisoning from walking by a bad restaurant, I am more the billy goat type when it comes to food and we used to joke that I could likely eat a dog turd from the yard and not get sick but her picking one up with a glove on she'd still contract something. Unfortunately in her case, her immune system is bad and that has plagued her and us for the last 6 years following years and years of wildlife disease and field research for the govt.

I know the one thing that moves folks like yourself is your kids and their kids and their kids. If I was a salesman selling PPE products I'd do it by creating an emotional moment to show the stubborn folks that this isn't about them, that buying gloves is about little timmy and sally!

I should also have put this in the upper part of my first thread, but knowing wildlife disease means I talk about it with my clients and colleagues in a way that isn't meant to be a scare tactic, but rather an education to keep them on the right track.

Can you clean up mouse droppings in your cabin in the spring in NM without a respirator or watering the floor and surfaces down with mist?

Yes you can, but can you also contract Hanta? Yes you can!

I guess I posted because I've been watching the last few months the mentions of sick raccoons, and other wildlife and seeing the responses falling often into the category of speculation, not education or experience.

What I enjoy is the ability to communicate some of what I've learned as any of us hope to do, in the hope that it will help someone.

I do often take an adversarial tone with others in the forum, much because I don't want folks especially in regard to wildlife disease, to be putting the wrong information out there.

While there is a vast amount of info not known, we know tons of information, but it is often buried in places you can't readily access and many don't have time or inclination.

It was my job, so I had an incentive and it was something I loved and continue to love to discuss and research, so I continue.

Okay, thats the end of my good natured rant! Paul knows I appreciate his comments and they only allow me to further the issue with you folks.

Warrior - David - Makes a great point as well about where you live and the resources you have or don't have. In a similar instance this last summer I had a client who was bitten by a diamondback rattlesnake. Now I always figured here in NM where we have 37+ species of snake and 7+ are venomous that the folks at the hospital would know what to do instantly when you come in?

Guess what? She was told they only had 1 snake bite case in the last 6 years, so no one on staff knew what to do instantly. Furthermore, they made her wait 2 hours for anti-venom as the policy of the pharmacy within the hospital is that until they know you are in the room, even if you call ahead (she did) they don't get it to the ER!

Now this client was an educated healthcare professional nearing retirement and because she faced this situation, I now know that calling the Denver poison control center for info is superior to asking anyone in my own state!

That case taught me a lot and I always look to learn more.

I guess my point with the other things is that why not treat each animal like it could have something to pass to you. As Eric said, does it matter whether the prevalence of roundworm is 20% or 100%?

Since you can't tell by looking at the animal, you could have the 20% in your hand and not know it, or part of the healthy 80%?

I like others enjoy the devils advocate spot, but I hope that this is actually some good talking points for some folks. When the public asks me I am balanced in my discussion with them and I make sure they know I know that of which I speak.

As they say in media training - "stay in your lane"

I live in my lane, this is my life, this is my profession and I love what I do and the people I get to work for too!

(I always appreciate a good debate and as long as something is coming of it, great, whether your view is all critters are diseased, or that you'll likely die from something else, I'll still try to put good info out there for you or anyone else because it is what I do.)

Best to all!

Justin

Thanks Justin. PW is a smart guy which is why his teachers and parents always said [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] when he opened his mouth. The enternet has made people from coast to coast say the same thing:-/

Paul keeps it fun and light! I can appreciate that anytime! And I've met him, so I know how he "rolls!"

me too I'm just playin

Thanks for shareing ,I am always wondering the what ifs.All though like many on here, I do not come from a back ground of ranches , farms and such.I did do my share of skinning many a coon with my bare hands along with the small cuts that my knife would make on myself as a youngster...
I have spent many days since I entered into this business with the thought of it happening to me.Even though the books such as "Best practices" say you do have a better chance of dying from a ladder fall then exposure to a disease.I fear the disease more then the ladder.Better yet a healthy respect for safety all around.

Thanks Justin ...We all need a little eye opener now and then

I started trapping muskrats at the age of 10 even then I wore skinning gloves, not because of diseases but because I didn't like muskrat blood and fat under my fingernails. 45 years later I now realize what a trend setter I was, a legend in my own mind, light years ahead of the rest. Those first muskrats came out of what was basically an open sewer, at times you would see a wad of paper and a turd float by. I've probably been exposed to an untold number of diseases and just maybe built up an immunity. Unlike kids now that sit in front of video games and never see the light of day. They walk within a mile of a virus and catch it. I think the same goes for peanut/peanutbutter allergies. When I was a kid PBJ was a rare snack not a dailey meal. You never heard of that allergy back then, now it's so common you have to ask a client if anybody has a peanut allergy before you set a trap.

This has nothing to do with the topic but did anyone else notice how much easier it was to read Justin's post because of the spacing?

I am definitely going to try to do the same in the future. ( Maybe someone besides me will read my posts )

Does anyone know if there are any squirrels that are allergic to peanut butter?

Doesn't anyone besides me want to ask Salys what kinda sets you use for sewer muskrats? ( Turd set )

Salys, the kids today are building up an immunity from any disease you can get from TV or the Internet!

The number one killer of young minds is liberalism.

Sorry HD didn't mean to steal your post, that's just how Paul and I are.

YO - Heres a post that should be ptt as we love our fellow trappers- THANK YOU JUSTIN !

Thanks for the great post,very true and informative. When I was younger and living down in S. Florida ,we spent much of the time catching hogs with Bulldogs,for fun and profit. I was killing one to get mounted and cut myself pretty good, never really gave it a second thought. A few months later,I had a 105 + degree fever for better than a week, and was admitted to the hospital. They had no idea what I had,even after a bunch of tests, and began treating me for Malaria. I suggested since we killed so many hogs, why don't they check for Swine Brucellosis,but they didn't even know what it was at the time. Sure enough the next day they came back and said I was positive for it. I spent 6 months on a high dosage of Tetracycline,and figure it is in remission now, but their lack of ever dealing with this type of thing almost got me killed. Now I take nothing for granted when sick enough to go to the doctor, and they are all familiar with what I do, and the type of animals and diseases associated with it.

Albert. I think that your post might be the MOST IMPORTANT POST THAT ANYONE OF US HAS EVER READ! We know way more about diseases

that might affect us than any doctor. nurse, or pharmacist! It's not their fault! They don't ever come in contact with people who

do what we do. It's your life and offering the treating physicians every opportunity to succeed is more important to you than anyone!

Albert,

Thanks for sharing that story. It does indeed ram home the point that it isn't just about contracting something, it is about someone recognizing it.

I know people that had lyme misdiagnosed for years and it diminished their physical abilities, I know others that have tested positive to a number of
things including brucella, but were not symptomatic at the time.

I think that it is the stance of the generations that came before me that folks are getting immune problems from sitting in front of the computer and tv's and while no one would argue spending time outdoors is healthy and tends to lead to good things.

I know too many people in my life that were born with autoimmune issues whose parents were always moving, outside and healthy eaters to boot!

Genetics, pollutants, chemicals and all manner of things behind the scenes are at play here. I have a slight allergy to bee stings, my younger half brother has life threatening bee allergies.

Have a cousin who has allergies to alfalfa and cats, his son when born had severe allergies (life threatening) to nuts, gluten, etc....

None of this was because they sat behind the computer, so while it is fun to suggest and put down the younger generations as computer glued unhealthy souls, in reality, biology is behind it all.

Diseases look for an find ways to enter our bodies and many are very poorly understood.

So protect yourself and your family,

Justin

Appreciate those who took something away from this thread and those that added to it.