Please don't get this thread deleted.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/h...cZQM_story.html

Wow, that must be the first time that the Washington Post wasn't on the side of the rats.

USDA wildlife services doing gull work in VT

Your missing out sgs

Got a link?

Sorry about that

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/artic...ssey=nav%7Chead

Thanks for the link.

Cody, I'm not sure why you would want to call me back in.

I'm not missing anything that I can see. Burlington is three hours away from me. Under no circumstance would I ever be doing work there.

wildlife2 Ive been following your posts and this WS looks like they do good work, if they had an office near me I would apply.

Good enough for government work.

USDA Wildlife Services doing work in PA;

http://mainlinemedianews.com/articles/2011/11/14/main_line_times/news/doc4ec1f270bdc0b039230056.txt

Tried, but WP says they can't find the link/article. Seems it was pulled off their website.

USDA doing snake jobs in LA


http://www.wwltv.com/news/Large-snake-escapes-home-to-end-up-on-neighboring-lawn-133990223.html

Usda wildlife services soliciting work at deer check stations in pa

http://mobile.mlive.com/advbaycity/pm_29269/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=bt7hHhU9

bit of a reach huh? read the whole article, see where the usda employee asked if any feral hogs were sighted, likely common protocol at the check station to help dnr map feral hog spread, then he mentions that they want to "kill them all" again common invasive species rhetoric being spoken by any and all agencies with brain in their head.

not sure you struck pay dirt on this one wildlife

Hunters and trappers are now supporting USDA to do what they could be doing. USDA now taking away money from trappers.


http://m.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...template=wapart

looks like oregon trying to offset the costs of predator control programs that have been
going on for a long time, not something new, just a new way to pay for it.

Well it's nice to see the propaganda machine at work!

.

george, was simply stating that the post describing this as a new thing was inaccurate, is that propaganda?

That is the point; the people who are paying for are the people getting hurt by it.......That is what is new.

Seeing that it is a totally voluntary program, how are they getting hurt?

The USDA is even a villein in Hollywood now. Yes that's right The USDA is represented in a new movie "We Bot a Zoo " as the shifty bag guy. They say that the press and movies are a good representation of the times there made, and also the psyche of society, and of the people .

USDA Wildlife Services doing crow work in NY and PA

http://live.psu.edu/story/56979

http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/r...Dykr8Vgmrg.cspx

USDA Veterinary Services who oversee animal health including livestock, zoos and research facilities to name a few and are the federal oversight for livestock disease.

I just keep finding it hard to understand how these off topic posts that don't related to WS help the case? We bought a zoo? Really?

Everyone in this fight should be sure they know which branch of USDA the posts they are writing are about.

Yes Parker, it was Veterinary Services. You know that and I know that ,but all the people in the audience saw, in big letters on his truck and name badge was "USDA"

Now you know my history !, Here I am at the movies with my wife and 8 year old daughter. I just thought it to be Ironic. In a family movie the USDA is depicted as the Villein .
To tell you the truth. Mien and my wife's jaw dropped . And yes I did laugh out loud and and said " You Got to be Sh--ing me ,Hollywood is on them now.

PS - AR groups want all trapping and hunting ended, the govt. just helps them grab the most donor cash and hype!
This comment is why I stand by my statement! They are making all of us look like clowns. and the more fuel WS gives the AR's the closer we are to laws being pasted that will hurt the privet wildlife trappers!!!

Closing of 259 USDA Offices Raises Safety Concerns

..............and not one WS office-yet!

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/...s#ixzz1j3vOJ6Eh

USDA doing Mute Swan work in MI

I also ask the question why should you need a permit to control an exotic/invasive species??????

http://www.whitelakebeacon.com/news/2650...tat-restoration

USDA is doing pigeon control in TN

I guess USDA really respects the mou with npma.

http://www.wcyb.com/news/30299624/detail.html

pisses me of your training is only for airport personnel,,,,,,,,,,,,, ALMOST as bad as the usdaws,,,,,,,,,,,,!!!!!!@

Not all of them are. It is up to the host airport.

Think the writer missed the boat on how toxicants work. Either they are using alpha chloralose or 1339
One of which isn't a toxicants and the other isn't putting them to "sleep" at least not how most folks would interpret.
The multiple bids is interesting however the mou with npma doesn't cover all nwcos only those with npma membership in the area.

USDA Wildlife Services doing deer control in OH

http://www.wkyc.com/news/state/article/227860/23/Deer-population-burdens-Northeast-Ohio-suburbs

What do you think?

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/news/rep...ontrol-poisons/

Every time I get a no-brainer like this one, I end up being wrong. Maybe someone like Justin needs to comment on this one.

Paul,

the 1080 and sodium cyanide folks have been after this as a target of the AR agenda for many many decades.

here would be my .02 for the record (had this discussion with some AR folks on another forum not long ago, so
fresh in my mind.

1) 1080 in the US is only put in livestock protection collars. this for those in the know means that you only kill
the predator that bites the neck of that animal. if there is a more specific method of knowing you got the "right guy"
outside of seeing the event happen and pulling the trigger, I haven't heard it. these collars are expensive which means
they aren't put out willy nilly all over the countryside.

2) the dose is meant to kill that animal attacking, not cursory scavengers, etc... which is what the AR groups draw upon
to say this is a bad and awful chemical.

3) moving on to the M-44's, not only can agents of this outfit use them, but licensed applicators including ranchers in many
western states can as well.

4) there are more than 20+ rules that govern the deployment of these devices, which when pulled by the coyote discharge
the dose of sodium cyanide killing the coyote often within steps of the device.

5) the problems with both? well, frankly most of the dead canines of the domestic variety were killed by trespassing hikers and folks
who walked right past the mandatory signage or better yet, tore down the signage and proceeded to watch their canine companion
die in front of them.

I love my dogs, both of which died a couple of years back of old age, cancer related things. Both had been caught in footholds once
while on the line in Michigan with us, and both if I trespassed and walked past the "danger" "peligro" signage could have been lost to
these tools.

The bottom line for me is that the collar with 1080 is a no brainer, it is specific to the animal depredating, something the antis rail over
when it comes to widespread predator control with traps, snares and aerial hunting.

M-44's, yep this could result in another non-target pull, but the guys after these target coyotes don't want to work more hours to get
the same critter, so they are targeting with specific baits and lures and setting on sign and where damage is occurring,

Hope that helps provide some background for anyone not knowledgeable or on the fence.

Not defending the agency here, just stating facts about the two toxicants in question.

Justin

There were doing deer on the west side of are state ,clamed the city dint have the funding so the fed tax payers flipped the bill

paul, i should have asked, you talking about the deer story or the other?

You answered the right one, Justin, and as always gave a much better view of the whole subject. It took me way too long to learn that most questions have more than one answer. Even though sometimes I really don't like one of the answers; there is so much truth in the slogan: " YOU WILL NEVER LEARN A THING FROM SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH YOU."

USDA wildlife services get 90k for geese removal in pa.
Still think your not missing out on work?

http://www.centredaily.com/2012/04/11/3158466/airport-gets-ok-to-curtail-duck.html

USDA soliciting more work and critical of the local trappers and hunters.

http://m.wset.com/default.aspx?pid=2705&...type%3drssstory

Although the reasoning behind this legislation is sound, the wording may be to broad. USDA may use this to expand their power to compete against us.

What do you think?

SEC. 12206. CANADA GEESE REMOVAL.
http://www.ag.senate.gov/issues/farm-bill
(a) In General.—On a determination by the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration that the population of Canada geese residing on land under the jurisdiction of the National Park Service that is located within 5 miles of any commercial airport poses a risk to flight safety, the Secretary (acting through the Administrator of the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service), in consultation with the Secretary of the Interior and the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, shall—
(1) by the first subsequent molting period for Canada geese that occurs after the date of enactment of this Act, publish a management plan that provides for the removal, by not later than 1 year after the date of publication, of all Canada geese residing on the applicable land; and
(2) as soon as practicable after the date of publication of the management plan under paragraph (1), commence removal of Canada geese from the applicable land.
(b) JFK International Airport.—Not later than June 1, 2012, the Secretary (acting through the Administrator of the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service) shall—
(1) issue a record of decision for the document entitled "Supplement to the Environmental Impact Statement Bird Hazard Reduction Program: John F. Kennedy International Airport"; and
(2) commence consultation with the Secretary of the Interior to complete the collection and removal of Canada geese from the applicable National Park Service land to ensure that the removal is completed by not later than August 1, 2012.
 
 
http://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/newsroo...ratic-red-tape_  
 

Wildlife 2 where did it state WS was critical of local trappers catching coyotes? Also a bounty program is ineffective and has been proven to be a waste of money time and time again!

Maybe an actual bounty wont affect the population drasticly. But having a contest will; Prize money is all provided by the entry fees, and if you dont think contests mess up the population, ask any fisherman. Now we have to plant fish every year or there wouldnt be anything left to catch.

Mike NO offense but coyotes sure ain't fish!!!!! You know many calling contest where held in my old area? A pile and they had little overall effect on the coyotes period. Having a trapping contest or calling or both when most take place would have little effect on the coyote population for the means in which many portray them to do and or solve.

GOOD Coyote control for the most part is doing timely control in and around the areas that need it the most. Not creaming the crop and moving on. That solves no issues what so ever. Most contest are held when you have the highest population of coyotes ina year cycle, ina few days time even your not going to have any direct impact to due to dispearsal of thoise coyotes at these times of year. Kill coyotes out of an area in the Fall and winter and see how long it takes to fill in good coyote habitat.

IN the upper Missouri watersheds they have many walleye fishing contest and they have little impact on the population due to the abundance of great walleye habitat, food and rearing. Fishing lakes and ponds far different than a large river system.

I see where you are coming from, but dead coyotes dont breed much. We just gotta make it a popular activity to produce coyote corpses.The fur is pretty worthless by the time you trap and care for the fur, it is hardly worth the time. I dont know a bigger motivator, but Im always open for ideas.
I spent 45 days in San Diego trapping coyotes and tore em up pretty good back in 05 or 06. I havent had many calls up until this year in that area.

No less effective and no more expensive than Wildlife services!

Not sure what this is, but it is clear that USDA WS did not inform them that there are service providers in the private sector.  
A clear violation of their own directive.



https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&...06037f2731ca60c

Third paragraph

Look I'm not trying to get into a wissing contest with any of you, but when I read BS I'm going to state such.

Mike if you think in any good coyote habitat that you as 1 person on the ground trapping can have a true impact on coyotes for any length of time in and by itself so be it, but that goes against the grain so many times not even funny. Good coyote habitat fills in much quicker than many think, not months or years but can be measured in weeks out to 6 weeks most of the year, those are the facts. Specially when your trapping durring times of fur harvest!

Yes dead coyotes don't breed much but either do the majority of the pup's your trapping that takes place come fall and early winter in a healthy coyote population. Up until breeding and through it you will have dispersal taking place meaning kill all you want in Nov_ Feb and come March and April there will be more coyotes there! The ones doing clean outs and looking to set on a den. Habtiat selection by coyotes is a higher archy. Good coyote habitat will have fill in up and through the spring time! Again fact not fiction!

Plenty of people put pressure on coyotes all fall and into the winter with far more than a limited tool or two and come spring they are filled up with coyotes once again. Purely factual.

Wildlife 2 the cost part might have some merit, the effectivness does not! Trapping in and of itself is a limited means to reduce coyote issues unless working very small scale. If you have 5-6 sheep ranchers and they have 6,000 acres each trying to cover 30,000 acres with traps and charging either a daily fee or per dead coyote merely in the fall and winter your not helping them come spring lambing much at all. There is a reason coyote control people invest in more tools you need them to be efficant and to cover more than a guy or two with a few 100 acres of ground.

I guess I'm missing the paragraph please copy and paste Thank You.

Fur trapping and depredation control are so apples and oranges not even close to the same.

The fur trapping wasnt on the table for me weeds. I got 153 yotes in the first 30 days because they were forced into the city, and were causing major damage, even inside homes. A big fire pushed them into the city because that was the only place they could get a meal. They were in huge packs as big as 22 and real easy to target. I focus on items like these because they are a problem, and make me lots of money.
Not to say they wont fill in, but without an 8 foot fence, and another foot going underground i dont see anyplace being free of yotes.
Im sure the next time there is a big fire out there it will go nutts again. What I am trying to get at, is that I could care less about range coyotes. They were temporarilly in the city for a reasion, and so was I.

MIke you had a 1 in a million deal there fire moves all kinds of wildlife, but do you think it was your abilities that have kept you from going back or the fact no more fires concentraiting them as a bigger factor?

The point is one has to talk about range coyotes as that is the NORM of predator control, fires are not!!!!

I had a rancher where I kept his loses at a respectable rate of less than 5% annually,I can tell you for a fact fall/winter fur trapping isn';t what kept his losses down!!!! Never will.I had that happen as well, the same thing great coyote habitat burned up due to drought, 28,000 acres of prime coyote drainage his losses where higher because of it, that is the abnormal not the norm. You where working the coyotes because of people sightings, I was working to keep a 100% sheep rancher in business.Year in and out. It was never about the money for me if it where you wouldn't have people in the open range ADC workings, becuase I can tell you your never getting rich working for the program !!!!

2 different lines of thought one to bank as much cash as possible, the other to help livestock producers with their production numbers.

Bottom line until you added in the abnormal situation of a massive fire, you posted as such to give the impression that trapping in and of itself and you where the main reason there have been no call backs since 05/06. Was that your doing or mother natures? I can tell you it was mother nature and providing renewed habitat for prey species for those coyotes.

When ever someone makes statments as yours there is ALWAYS an underlying factor involved. Mange is a great coyote control tool but no one can say becuase of my efforts, it is mange that has lessened the phone calls and loss alot of the times. Take a "normal" period of time and trapping by itself is not benefical solution over all in the big scheme to portray such is well??????

Hey Mike, I consider you kind of an authority on Wisconsin and coyotes. As many as we seem to have and also considering both size and health, I feel that they are not nearly as big a problem as they could be. What's your feelings?

I do understand them, at least I think I do. I dont see them becoming a problem here as much for lots of reasions. We hunt and trap for one. That decreases the size of packs, and makes the whole (power in numbers) thing a factor in our favor. Fewer members means less able to have fresh wheels at the end of the line to take down bigger animals. They actually do drive prey to escape routes like we do, where a waiting one takes up the chase and finishes the job.
We havent had a huge catastrophy in the wild, pushing them to enter homes, or live on cats and dogs because thats all there is available. Out west they did just that, and it was realy crazy. Even little kids were getting chased, and some dragged around before the kids parent broke it up. One old man called me while his dog was dying in his arms. He tried to save the dog which was attacked while on a leash walking in broad daylight. As he ran home with the dog in his arms, a coyote was hanging from his bicept.
We dont have that here, at least Ive never heard of it. Our yotes are much larger, and smaller packs. There is always fresh roadkill, and no reasion to do such desperate things.
Farmers complain about cows getting bloody tails from them, but they dont wanna pay my fees; So they have cows with bloody tails.
Now weeds, I am not ever going to say that I am the bestest dog trapper out there, and I also wasnt backed into a corner to tell any aspects of that operation. I was pretty up front about the whole issue. Nor do I care how you do your little friendly thing with the poor farmers in yer neck o the woods. I saw a need, I took care of bizzness, and I came home. If mother nature is to thank, then thanks mother nature. Actually it was a firefighter I have to thank for it all. I guess he wanted some overtime and threw a match. In any event, I go where the money is( Cause I do this for a living) I dont hate farmers, but they always want something for free, and when they hear my prices and sound like they dont like it, I send them a list of local trappers. I wont waste my time with a cheep coyote job when I can do a bat job in half the time for 10 times the money.

Weeds, I was actually trapping that operation in june and july. Lots of hungry pups, and to the people there, a coyote is a coyote. Easy job to sell when they just found the family dog ripped up in the living room. Im not sure why you think putting pressure on yotes wont work, look what we did to wolves here 75 years ago. Still think its just a matter of weeks? Fact is, we need more people willing to take coyote control seriously in problem areas. Only then will we be able to control what they do.

Mike states like WI and others in the mid west don't have as many coyote issues as the west for many reasons, smaller land tracts more human interaction DAILY, less livestock and zero open range livestock production. WI along with states like IA and MO and others have a very large small prey base, unless talking north woods and then the wolves help limit coyote numbers and densities as well.

Other areas have that without fires, there is areas in the west where coyotes have sancutarys and they attack dogs and cats, Denver, Ft Collins and other cities have had issues with coyotes and local pets.

Most Ranchers and farmers aren't "cheap" as you say they need cost versus effect. They need to see the problem one that warrants the cost no different than when they apply a self tax to themselves to help pay for wildlife control like they do in many western states Mike. In WY every rancher pays 1.00 per head on cattle and sheep add that up statewide and they contribute alot of money for themselves, other states do the same. They can choose to receive services from private contractors or govt agnecies they pay into that with their money and have a stake in it.

I never heard of a "cheap" coyote job where I have worked. I don't see the people as a means of money for me, they are friends and neighbors and many great ADC western coyote men take the loss as hard as do the ranchers, different mind sets No right or wrong just different. It is a part of the western heritage been around alot longer than you or I Mike. I hope it continues on for many more years to come.

For the record most coyotes in the west are exploited coyote populations are not true pack animals most are made up of Ma and PA and offspring until fall then break up, they will gather back in heavy snow to work bigger game, but they don't have a true packing mentality like wolves. On spring dens it is made up of ma and pa and a nurse mate ussally a female from the previous year whoi is dry but that can change but talking the avg setup. Early hefier calvers will have large groups of coyotes in and around them but not true packing at all, just high coyote densities, but come denning time they are broken up defending their own niche in life.

Sure you have issues in your state to Mike with dogs and coyotes:

http://www.wkow.com/story/16446093/dog-attacked-by-coyote-in-madison

http://www.journaltimes.com/news/local/m...1871e3ce6c.html

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/111827339.html

I'm not going to argue about coyotes with either one of you because you both know way more than I do. What I will argue is farmers. THEY ARE CHEAP: I KNOW 'CAUSE I ARE ONE! You cannot compare ranchers to farmers. Ranchers are worth a fortune but may not have a lot of cash flow. Farmers have smaller acreage but still have their first communion money. Ranchers leave their kids a fortune in land. Farmers just leave their kids a fortune.

Coyotes dont always attack for food weeds. A january attack could indicate that a male is taking out the competition. Male coyotes do that in the real world. The differance between me and you is mostly that I didnt learn everything I know from reading and posting links. I have actually gone there and done that.
Smaller tracks of land: San Diego has thousands of acres of brush land to live and hunt. more rabbits and squirrels than anywhere ive ever been.

Intheweeds is the only one that seems to grasp that there is a huge difference in coyote trapping and control geographically. Midwest farm situations and California urban situations are not the same as open range western coyote control. Unless you have been HERE and done that, you have no grasp of the situation HERE. The big livestock areas and problems. Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, western SD, etc. I am one trapper, who used to work for the USDA, and now contract to my county privately, and I alone take care of over 3000 sq miles of territory and over 30000 head of sheep and close to that number of cattle. I'm not getting into your ongoing argument over WS, just talking specifically about what intheweeds has tried to explain about coyotes in western range conditions. It's different.

In the weed. The last link I posted was from your state. No comment?

Im not sure why you think putting pressure on yotes wont work, look what we did to wolves here 75 years ago.

Mike you can't be serious to think wolves and coyotes are the same can you? I can tell you they are not! If wolves had the drive to sruvive like coyotes we would all be in trouble!

Not putting pressure on coyotes but killing when the killing has the most benefit is "KEY". I hear too many that think fall/winter fur trapping or a bounty has the same effects as timely predator control, they do not most of the time.

I'm well aware why coyotes kill: food,agression, to protect territory and at times just for the sake of such.

I am a past ADC Trapper Mike worked for the govt, enjoyed it fully and learned alot through the years from some of the best in the business. Names most don't know because they don't spend their time on websites such as these. But excellent coyote hands for sure and know them well. When you chase coyotes all months of a year in areas of very heavy exploitation you get to see them at their best and their worst and you use their weekness to get rid of them in an efficant manner. I can tell you at times of the year there are other tools far more efficant than traps! AS Lobo Rojo pointed out when you cover 2,500-3,000 sq miles you sure keep busy and put in alot of long days, you learn you have to, to be good at your craft and also to keep the very people you work for happy.

You must remember in sheep country coyote tolerance is very,very low and they are pursued with every thing you can think of and then some. Yet somehow they still manage to survive and I can tell you if your only tool in your bag is the foot trap then your not going to be very effective. The more tools one has the more efficant one can be, your on a timeline as more loss means less lambs going to the sale barn come Sept and October. The sheep market is at all time highs and looks to stay there for awhile, your not going to hear less from these ranchers but more on livestock losses.

San Dieago is not open range Mike, and yet if you would have read what I wrote I was talking about the mid west. I know a guy who takes Bees to Cali every winter to pollinate almonds and he says you wouldn;t believe the numbers of coyotes he see's and how they have little fear of humans, a few years back he took his fox pro caller and while there he fired it up as 30-40 guys where working the almond fields and had 5 coyotes come within 200 yrds of him, weaving their way through all the tractors and people. A far different "bird" for sure. They see humans as a Positive not so much a negative in that enviroment, I would love to call that area!!!!! Opportunistic is what they are for sure! Coyotes in heavy persicution don't act like that very often or they wind up dead in a hurray!

Lost income laying dead on the prairie! Sad to see. Maybe to some others could care less, but I care as this country was founded and explored through activites as such. Alot of our American history lies in the west and the wars fought over cattlemen and sheepmen and the hardships endured. Where I used to live you could read and see photo's of the old days of long before auto's sheepmen trailing all their herds many days to get to a buying station to get them loaded on rail car and sent to the big packing plants in the mid west. Some weeks of travel all to get 1 pay check a year. A hard life but one with some satisfaction. I guess I have too much old west in me

Wildlife 2 without knowing for sure I'm betting a bird deal in downtown St Louis? I think it states they are all federal buildings as well correct? I see nothing wrong what so ever with them getting this MOU and contract. I mean it is vague as to what the workis and how it went about with the information you provided.

What did they do before thire reliance on the government in the 1930's?
I don't think the wild west was tamed by WS.
WS was created as a work program as part of the new deal.

Whats wrong with feds protecting there own buildings and forests?

If that is your logic why do the Feds put anything out to bid? Maybe the feds should raise the sheep and butcher them to. I'm sure they can do that better as well.

If they own the sheep, why not?

What agency do you work for?

1st. Civ. Div.

According to the sense of the senate USDA WS must not provide wildlife control when private sector sources are available.

Fine with me either way. I dont like doing work for any local, state, fed, govt. So, as far as I go, they can do there own wildlife control on the buildings and property they are responsible for. Not saying you shouldn't, If thats your bag then you should definately go after it.

What did they do before thire reliance on the government in the 1930's

You must look back at history to the dust bowl era and then what followed after that, you had increases in livestock from the early- mid 30's to the early 40's as much as 50%. AS the livestock numbers increased so did the need for control work.

You must also remember wildlife 2 many species have adapted far better thsn many have thought, how many years ago coyotes where thought as a western plains animal? Now every state is full of them and it goes on for other species. The open range is still the cheapest way to grow cattle and sheep due to many factors and to ensure a supply for our country and others. Anyone ever think what beef/lamb would cost without western open range production?

In western states the livestock numbers are higher than that of people!

intheweeds, I'm sure what you say about western beef verses cost is very true. I just think it's funny that on a trip out west we didn't get a single good tasting piece of beef until we got back to those good old corn-fed Angus and White-face in Iowa. When it comes to beef, us mid-westerners are spoiled rotten.

Paul I've lived here over 12 years and still haven't found a really good steak in a restaurant anywhere in this state, first they are over priced second most cuts are a mere tidbit. What they call the king cut at 16oz(before cooking) wouldn't even make a good sandwich. A real steak starts at 24oz and goes up from there. Come to my house and I'll go get some 24oz plus porterhouses doing a little marinade on them, BBQ to perfection which means a good red to pink center, baked taters, big salad, corn on the cob from the garden and your choice of adult beverage. Hungry yet?

Paul remember that western beef the majority goes to feedlots to get marbled and then sold to the large packers. Not to say ranchers don't finish off their own for in house use because they do. Also young grass fed beef is quite good! Also 90 day corn fed Bison and choice cuts are as good as most beef you will find in the store. Same goes for a nice wether lamb finished on corn and under 95 lbs some of the best lamb chops you will ever have!

I had some great ribeye from our local store when I lived out west, well marbled and corn finished.

Marinate good beef???? Really? I have always found it odd that someone would pay good money for choice or prime beef then mask that flavor with anything but light salt to be masking that great beef flavor!

Don't forget though that the anti corn crowd of beef consumers are willing to pay Great money for gras fed and finished Beef!!!! A great market for a smaller % of that open range beef for some that are willing to market as such.

Weeds, A marinade makes all the differance in the world on any meat. If a guy has time to let it sit for a couple days and drink it up. We all have our preferred way of eating. My favorite is like this.
Couple shots of soy sauce
Leamon juice (Go easy)
Palm Vinegar ( Half cup)
Jalipeno peppers
Black pepper
Whole ball of garlic
Cilantro
Onion
Ginger
Salt
Throw it all in a blender and make it liquid and soak anything you want in there for a couple days. Cooked over mesquite charcoal, NONE BETTER!

I think we're stealing this post. Who cares. Simple marinade doesn't change the over all flavor, a little soy sauce, a little olive oil and a sprinkle of Montreal Steak Seasoning(spicy preffered)let sit at room tempurature for an hour. I eat everything spicy, something ya'll don't know about me is I almost ended up living in Cabo San Lucas. I was engaged to a Mexican gal who's family owned an RV park there. I even owned a home there for a while. Today is May 5th Cinco de Mayo, Martha's 60th birthday, yes I almost married an older women. Do you know whats the best thing about older women?
They don't tell, they don't swell and they are gratefull as H*ll.
Now how did I end up in Montana? That's a whole different story.

Very interesting make sure you read the whole thing.
Some very good points. Usda gives anti all they need to make us all look bad.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/28/4450678/the-killing-agency-wildlife-services.html

they are just one of the biggest anti targets thats all, don't kid yourself, trapping, hunting etc... all on the firing line for antis.

best part, read the caption under the picture, if you believe that quote of "little danger to cattle" should probably find a new forum
to post on.

also gotta love the terminated employee jumping up now and running his mouth on the bandwagon where he's found new friends
in the anti realm to help him stick it to the govt.

Exactly HD, coyote numbers and calf kills in the western half of the US have a direct corrilation with one another.

USDA/WS has been on the anti's hit list for many years, nothing new or mind blowing there. To a degree the fed govt involvement in control work helps private trappers not hinders it!

Please tell me how it helps Nwcos?

I think the USDA should continue to help agriculture. Put that only makes up five percent of thier budget. NWCO should be doing the other 95%.

How does WS help ALL in the trapping business fur or otherwise? Look at the R&D work done under WS through the years, the scientific data that aids trappers of all walks of life. Also look at the surveys done on who Joe Public thinks has the most knowledge and expertise on wildlife in general, right or wrong in your Bias mind wildlife 2 it i sits with govt agencies be it fed or state.

WS and state game depts that are pro fur harvest/ pro control help all trappers in the public realm against the anti crowd, those are the facts!

I don't believe I have ever said anything negative about the efforts of state agencies. After all mammals are the responsibility of the states, not the feds.

wildlife2 the laws enacted in the early part of the 1900's do in fact make it a legal obligation for the fed govt to control some of the damage as well if asked by the states and ag producers to do so.

Some free advertising for USDA wildlife services.
No mention of private NWCO's. Does NH have a state org?

http://m.sentinelsource.com/mobile/featu...840421779d.html

Obligation or ability?

I've never heard of a state wco organization in NH. We do have a very small trapper's association though.

This article is certainly an ad by and for WS. I don't believe there are any feral hogs in NH. After more than thirty years of roaming the NH woods, I've seen neither sign nor animal. I've never met anyone who has either.

If you ever wandered the NH countryside in winter you would understand why I think feral hogs are just a fantasy here.

OBLIGATION IF ASKED FOR and some if not, but co op with many states Game and Fish on many projects.

So not a true obligation?

federal employees being paid to blog, what a good use of our tax dollars.
I'm glad we are paying our competitors to advertise against us.

http://blogs.usda.gov/2012/05/10/birdstrikes-at-homestead-airforce-base-down-90-thanks-to-usda/

Here you go wildlife 2 read up on the LAWS on our Books. Yes obligation by definition of the law.

Animal Damage Control Act
Animal Damage Control Act (7 USC 426-426c) -- The Act of March 2, 1931, (46 Stat. 1468) provided broad authority for investigation, demonstrations and control of mammalian predators, rodents and birds.

Public Law 99-19, approved December 19, 1985, (99 Stat 1185) transferred administration of the Act from the Secretary of the Interior to the Secretary of Agriculture.

Pub. L. 102-190(Div. A, title III, Sec. 348, Dec. 5, 1991, 105 Stat. 1348) and P.L. 102-237 (Title X, Sec. 1013(d), 105 Stat. 1901, Dec. 13, 1991) added provisions directing the Secretaries of Defense and Agriculture, respectively, to take actions to prevent the introduction of brown tree snakes into other areas of the U.S. from Guam.

P.L. 106-387, effective October 28, 2000, 114 Stat, 1549, amended section 426 of the Act to give broad authority to the Secretary of Agriculture in carrying a wildlife services program with respect to injurious species.

Where does it give them authority to compete against private companies?

I hate to agree with Weeds, but in my own opinion, there are people out there who cant affoard us. What are they supposed to do, live with an animal or bunch of bats in there house? I do some free work close by, but everyone isn't a softy like me, and I can't be everywhere. Im not talking about crackheads, or drunks. Just good people who are having a rough time, and now this... I think its a good thing that the feds can actualy help someone out instead of just talking about it.

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20120508/NEWS/120509811?p=1&tc=pg

Tman member jtrapper was involved in this one.
I know for a fact that ttown is served by at least four different WCO operations.

Mike, we as an industry can address that. I was recently part of a three company collaberation on a rat trapping and exclusion project for a non profit.

USDA only works for "free" or at a vary low price when they know there are NWCOs trying to get the work.

Where does it give them authority to compete against private companies?

The very essence of the law gives them that authority in many areas.


The Secretary of Agriculture may conduct a program of wildlife services with respect to injurious animal species and take any action the Secretary considers necessary in conducting the program. The Secretary shall administer the program in a manner consistent with all of the wildlife services authorities.

Mike your a level headed person for sure! Not evryone can afford private contracts and people pay the fed govt taxes as well, what does our fed govt do with these tax dollars? Also for many the cost versus effect is more benefical having the govt ran program over a private paid to hire deal, NOT ALL but plenty of it does work better for various reasons.

Also states have the authority to ask for or deny any help from the govt as well.

Oh gee, I guess the busiest airport in the world and a multimillion dollar internationlly known resort qualify as low income then and deserve the free services they have been getting.

Airports I understand them being security twitchey, but not resorts. So where do we draw the line and co-exist before we start getting huffy about the situation?

A true believer you are.

Warrior what does the busiest airport in the world have to do with the fed govt you ask?

Alot because ALL airports are under control fo the FAA, doesn't matter the smallest or the largest aircraft are a public safety concern and it all is under the control of the fed govt. Any aircraft related issue must be reported to our fed govt. It only stands to reason that govt entities would use other govt entities for work. Much of this is special permit stuff like migratory birds and the such.

Again you might see the largest airport as a cash cow and also the liability of doing such work would be very high. I used to be in the field of soil sterlization work and did some for Military bases, the insurance coverage they want you to have is very high and then it goes out for bid generally every 1,2 or 3 years and it got to be very competitive to the point no sense having the work for what "SOME" where willing to do it for! It was busy work for employees as the profit went away when the bid prices kept going down not up as input cost and insurance cost went higher.

Weed, I was asked to provide a bid. The two interesting items I learned were that WS, for reasons unknown, is no longer offering these services, and the fees charged by WS for these services, when they did do them, was ZERO. This was from two different entities.

In the weeds get your facts straight. Not all airports are controlled by the FAA. Some are, others by the state, and believe it or not some are private.
There are hundreds of thousands of private companies that provide a variety of service the the aviation industry.
I can't imagine they are all doing it for no profit?

On USDA they like to say the work it to specialized or insurance is to high. That is just thier attempt to make them sound better and to scare client from using us.
Usda will charge over 200k for a project when we are not in the picture. If they know we have the potential to get the work USDA will only charge 20k for that same project. Is this ethical?
Simple FOIA requests have proven this fact on several occasions.

Wildlife2:
3. What airports must have an FAA Airport Operating Certificate (AOC)?

Generally, airports in any state of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any territory or possession of the United States serving passenger-carrying operations of an air carrier certificated under 14 CFR Part 121 and 14 CFR Part 380 must hold Airport Operating Certificates if -
Scheduled passenger-carrying operations are conducted in aircraft designed for more than 9 passenger seats, and
Unscheduled passenger-carrying operations are conducted in aircraft designed for at least 31 passenger seats,
The authorizing statute exempts Alaskan airports that serve air carrier aircraft with less than 30 seats from Federal airport certification requirements. To learn more about the certification of Alaskan airports, review Alaskan Airports.

Also, any such airport that either leases from or shares its facility with the U.S. Government, such as the Department of Defense, must obtain a Part 139 Airport Operating Certificate for those portions of a joint-use or shared-use airport that are within the authority of a person serving passenger-carrying operations defined above

Wildlife 2 we are talking this issue sure there are alot of private companies doing all kinds of work in the US I have no doubts and keeps america turning for sure.

Show me where I can find the same scope and job with a 10x's cost differance for the same workload?

Will always be some variance doesn't matter private or govt, I could list 100's or more on the private side as well, give me a link where one can see the same work and time involved with a 10x mark up by WS. I would love to read any FACTUAL information on this you have.

Warrior I think if you would read the laws you might see why they didn't charge a matter of public safety. WS also does mandatory wildllife assements at airports as well, any major work done at an aiport needs a wildlife assement doen and they do charge for such. Not alot but they do charge and has to be completed as your talking fed tax dollars involved in many cases.

I see you can can google info so look up any wha USDA has done in PA and you will see they are all over 100k some even 200k
Then look at states like NH and NE they are going for 20k
The work load is regulated by the FAA so the projects are exactly the same. I understand a variation from state to state but not that much. It is simply a result of the private sector being involved (able to bid) in one state and not the other I am Interested to see what spin you put on it.

Also not all airports need to be 139. Only ones with comerial traffic.

Not a lot haha.
I want some of you cool aid.

Hey guys, I'd like to sound off right here as someone who has been guilty of the same darn thing. Don't make a whole lot of fun of someone who disagrees with you. ( Especially if they seem to have more information than you do ) The guys that you learn from are not your friends; they are your so called, enemies.

You guys are loosing work in the windy city;

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=205369

http://defundusda.wildlifeservices.us/

Interesting

USDA wildlife services getting paid by tax payer dollors to do work in PA

http://www.equities.com/news/news-headline-story?dt=2012-06-13&val=164620&cat=headline

The project is certainly worthwhile but it's hard to figure why they need WS (or anyone else) to get the job done.

Can no one in the Pennsylvania Game Commission shoot straight?

And another one in mass

http://www.barnstablepatriot.com/home2/i...3&Itemid=30

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47892081


Here is your chance to protect the future of our industry. Call and write your Senator and Congressman and tell them you want wording in the bill that restricts the power of USDA WS.

Another 50k lost to USDA.

http://mainlinemedianews.com/articles/20...bb617102325.txt

Coyote work- Lost to USDA Wildlife Services in OR.

http://www.prd.state.or.us/news.php?id=1620

USDA WS taking work in upstate NY
also spreading false information about the availiblity of NWCO's

http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Canada-Geese-Ta-161261795.html

Gotta love how it was paid for by a grant from the EPA.

USDA wildlife services growing their power in MI


http://www.michiganoutofdoors.com/2012/07/support-federal-involvement-in-mute-swan-management/