Victor #4 Jump with teeth

Wondering what it would be worth?if not worth much I might just grind the teeth off.don't know how to add a picture from my phone.

A fairly common trap. Price will range from $15.00 to $35.00

Strength of springs
All complete
All original
Readability of the pan
No damage or mods

Pan should say # 14. A # 4 is the same size but no teeth.

Hang it on the wall or build it into a taxidermy project.

Was wondering why no one told you that it is not a Victor.

Why is it not a Victor?

The Oneida Community and later A. T. C. made several brands of traps and the Oneida Jump was one of them. Each brand stands on it own. They never made a Newhouse Victor, they never made a Hawley & Norton Victor and they sure never made an Oneida Jump Victor.

If it is not Victor, what does the big V cut into the middle of the pan stand for?

Not 100% sure what it stands for, but i am 100% sure it does not stand for Victor. There never was a Victor trap co. An Oneida Jump is a brand of traps, Victor is a brand of traps, one trap cannot be both. They were made by O.C. or A.T.C. I have never been able to find anything stating what it stands for. All I have seen, is SEE THE V. Since there was no V in the pan of an Oneida Jump until the start of WW1. It could stand for VICTORY.

I'll bet it stands for "VERY"! The ones that I have are very good traps.

You may have something there. They are about as good as you can get for wolverine. May need a better chain though.

The "V" cut into Victor and Oneida Jump traps is a trade mark registered by Oneida Community and later by Animal Trap Comp. of America when they bought out Oneida Community's trap business. Oneida Community applied for the trade mark on 7 Aug. 1909 and received the registration on 4 Jan. 1910. In the application for the trade mark Oneida Community stated that they had been using the "V" continuously since 1 Feb. 1909. Neither the application or the registration states what the "V" stands for. In 1910 after receiving their registration for the trade mark, Oneida Community started an advertising campaign with a logo that said "See the V". In my opinion the "V" stands for Victor but it is only a trade mark for the company (Oneida Community Or Animal Trap Comp.)not the brand (Victor or Oneida Jump).

Thanks for the education, Piney.

Again Victor never was a co. Why would the O.C. slight other and better brands of traps and use their inferior brand as a trademark. Makes no since to me. I am old enough to remember Bill Boards with a huge V for VICTORY in WW11. I have a huge book on what happened on the home front during WW11. there is many pages with a V and it is states that it stands for VICTORY. I have axes that state the same thing on them. I believe that the Oneida Community used it as a patriotic gesture before they registered it as a trademark. Why didn't they put a V in the pan of an Oneida Jump when they first registered it? And not wait until the start of WW1?

I thought i was through with The V, but i thought of this. The Oneida Community made Military items in WW1 & WW11. They were a Patriotic Company. Google images for V for victory WW1

I copied this from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

World War I (WWI or WW1), also known as the First World War, or the Great War, was a global war centred in Europe that began on 28 July 1914 and lasted until 11 November 1918.

That is almost 5 years after Oneida Community applied for the "V" trademark. The "V" trademark has to do with advertising, Oneida Community's Newhouse trap was the top of the line and needed little promotion. How ever the Victor trap as a quality trap at a lower price had a lot of competition. By far the majority of Oneida's trap advertising was for Victor traps.

You forget about the Spanish American War, 1898. If VICTORY had nothing to do with it, then they wouldn't have waited 10 years (the start of WW1) to put the V in an Oneida Jump.

snakecollector states that the V stands for Victor, but not Victor trap. Sure would like to know where they got the word Victor, if it wasn't from their traps. If they got the name from their traps, then it stands for Victor trap. I still think they used it as a patriotic gesture and then decided to use it as a trademark.

Hope i am not running this into the ground. Could have put all i have said on one post if i had been thinking. Anyway some of the figures don't ad up. In the Parr & Andreski price guide it states that from 1890 to 1909 (19 years) the pan of a Victor had no V. And from 1909 to 1925 (16 years) they had a V in the pan. I have seen many more Oneida Community Victor traps with a V than without it. Going by their dates, !9 years with no V and 16 years with a V. it would should be the other way around. I will repeat myself again, i believe they used the V as a patriotic gustier before they registered it in 1909 and then put a V in the pan of the Oneida Jump at the start of WW1. (1914)

http://trappingsupplies.blogspot.com/2010/08/fascinating-history-of-oneida-traps.html


Doesn't explain the v on the pan but interesting history about Oneida Community.

That's a good read fiftynine. Thanks

I just gotta add: A Victor jump will always be a Victor jump in my mind. "Hard to teach an old dog new tricks"

Lots of people, maybe most, call them Victor Jumps. That don't alter the fact that neither O.C. or A.T.C. made a Victor Jump trap. I just wanted to get it out there so that people that hadn't given it much (if any) thought would know that they never made a Victor Jump.

Fiftynine must not have read where i said what i thought the V stood for. I thought i did a pretty good explaining what, in my opinion, the V stood for. As i said, i don't know for sure what it stands for, but i am 100% sure it don't stand for Victor. Its an Oneida Jump, and not a Victor. It cant be both. Look in any O.C. of A.T. C. trap advertisement and you will never see an Oneida Jump Victor advertised. If they made an Oneida Jump Victor, why not a Newhouse Victor, Hawley & Norton Victor, All steel Victor? Because each is a brand of traps and each stand on its own.

Pineywoods, I think it great that veteran collectors such as yourself can derive these theories as to the why, how, and when certain things happen in history and how it can alter the processes along the way. I think that is why there has been so much written about the history of the steel trap, but unfortunately a great deal of information has been lost or altered over time. I do find it a little odd that you pass negative feedback about the new trap collectors guide, on the premise of unclaimed information. Not to belittle your knowledge, but I would think that when a list of contributors such as: Parr,Andreski,Clark, Cords, Delavan, Dahms, Gipe, Harrison, Hamzy,Kelly,Langert, Lamontange, Lefebvre, Munro, Nohle, Precht, Stewart,and some other well known and respected collectors compile information and theories most of us are not going to argue with and treat it as theories and accept it as such not facts. Personally i think it is a great book I wouldn't say that I agree with everything as far as pricing goes but its the best I can find out there. Hats off to those fellows involved I can imagine they took some heat along the way I don't imagine all collectors can agree on values and Im sure they have heard about it.
Regards,

Mushrat You misunderstood what i said. The ones you named have been collecting traps for a long time. I think MOST of them try to get what they write correct. But not all of them. Anyway i wasn't talking about any of the Guys you mentioned. In fact i don't know who wrote the articles. If you will look, you will find articles on "what i consider off the wall" history of traps. No one claims these articles. If they won't say where they got there information. then they shouldn't print it. I know for a fact that some of the unclaimed articles are not correct, so the ones i don't know about, i don't know if i should believe them or not.

Well said mushrat.

Dang, Mushrat! Where are you when the books by Robert Vance/Ed Hutzel, men with a combined trap collecting, trap anything, related knowledge of close to one hundred years, are being trashed?

Don't grind the teeth. Remove entire Jaws and offer a trade for regular jaws. If no one else close to you, I have some reg. jaws and will trade.

Don't grind the teeth. Remove entire Jaws and offer a trade for regular jaws. If no one else close to you, I have some reg. jaws and will trade.

Wow, at first I though that you were talking about your personal teeth,
than I realized your were talking about teeth on the trap.

pick65

By the way Mushrat, did you get help writing this post? It sounds exactly like what someone i know would have written.

piney I have a trap with a v cut out and says victor on the pan...it is a jump trap inside a long....no 41....

some of the 14s were made with no 4 pans...then a no 1 was hand stamped next to the 4 to make them 15s....maybe this one got missed...

Peaver, its an underspring, but does it jump??? Does it say both Oneida Jump & Victor, or just Victor.

Lots of things i haven't seen, but i don't remember seeing a hand stamped one on a #14. I did know a Guy in Alaska back in the early 1970's that ordered some #14 jaws and put them in #4 Jump traps.

I've got an Oneida #14 jump w-hand stamped 1.

I thought all the 14 jumps had the 1 hand stamped. I think some newhouse ATC 14s came that way too. Or maybe I've been buying from some shady characters....

Surely, DiggerDale doesn't think that the O.C. and latter A.T.C. had workers hand stamping a #1 on a #4 jump pan to make a #14 jump for 70+ years. Also the #4 Newhouse with offset jaws go back to at least 1865. In 1887 they changed it from #4 with offset jaws to #14. IF any #14's left the factory with a hand stamped #1 it would have been that year. If so, the mold mark will be on the underside of the jaws close to the center and not on the leg of the jaws. It is highly unlikely that an A.T.C. 14 left the factory with the #1 hand stamped in.

Pineywoods , I had no help writing it. And unfortunately I guess I can't prove it to you either.....

mushrat, You don't have to prove anything to me. I take a man at his word until he proves that it is no good.

Pineywoods must not have read where I said ...

"Doesn't explain the v on the pan but interesting history about Oneida Community"

The Oneida Community, Ltd. expanded from game traps into mouse traps with the acquisition of the Animal Trap Company of Lititz, Pennsylvania, in 1906. Thereafter, the classic wooden snap traps for small rodents became Victors of the Oneida Community, Ltd. - See more at: http://www.trapperpredatorcaller.com/art...h.jaRhfgfG.dpuf

I always thought ATC bought out Oneida Community, but not according to this. Hey coonriver, 5 years ago I bought a bunch of 14 Oneida Jump V for victor victory varmint viva traps with the teeth ground off at a trappers rondy in Fenner, NY for $5 each. If they had the teeth they'd be worth what wiss miss said $15 to 25.

Am wondering if fiftynine lives on Fishook Road?

yes piney the 41 is a jump trap inside a longspring...it is Identical to a regular jump trap....

single anyway

pea, you need to look a little closer. It IS an underspring trap. It DOES NOT say jump on the pan. It CANNOT jump because it is riveted to the longspring trap. I do not see why you THINK it is a jump trap. Could you tell me WHY you think it is a jump trap?

I don't have much for 14 jumps anymore but I looked at one OC model and the #14 looked good. The only two ATC jumps I have both look like the #1 is kitty wampus. Five of five of my Newhouse ATC #14s look like the 1 was stamped separate from the 4. Seems like the more I learn the less I know....Dale

The #1 on the #14 IS stamped on a #4 pan. I don't understand this. They had thousands of traps per run of traps.It don't seem feasible to do that. The last #14 Newhouse has the #14 kitty wampus. The rest of the pans look OK.

I have my doubts that the #1 is hand stamped. It's positioning is too consistant. Looks the same on my trap. Same distance from the V, and aligned with the 4. I believe that when making the die, they either allowed for the V punch-out that is in the pan when making the #1 or just added the #1 to an existing #4 die? A stamping with the 1 out of alignment with the 4 could disprove my theory, though, and real quick like.



Edit to add: I took a closer, straight on look at mine, and it turns out that it's the one that I needed to see! The #1 is not in perfect alignment with the #4. That's what I get for thinking out loud ....

I spent many years in Alaska, and there are LOTS of #14 jumps up there. There is no collector value to them, so i never paid any attention to the stamping, so i guess i shouldn't be discussing them. I was just going by logic. One thing for sure, on the #14 jump posted, the stamp started out as a #4. The #4 is centered on the V. If it had orig. been a #14, the #14 would have centered on the V. But i stick to my guns that it is not a VICTOR.

PINEY.....I think it is a jump trap because its the SAME thing as an underspring....its a type of trap....not an "action" of a trap......and it says onieda victor on the pan...and inner trap is IDENTICAL to the same size trap that "onieda" calls a jump and blake and lamb calls an underspring.

pea, you are sadly mistaken if you don't think the word Jump on an Oneida Jump means that it jumps. The base is also a spring, and when the trap is tripped, it jumps and gets a higher catch on the critter. I say again, the inside underspring trap on a #40 or #41 does not jump and the pan does not say that it jumps. The base of the inside trap is fastened to the base of the outside trap, therefore it cannot jump. Also i have a Blake underspring trap that has a cast base, therefore it cannot jump. All underspring traps do not jump.

I spent thirty five years in Alaska. Drove every road up there that i could get over in my two wheel drive PU. looking for traps from 1971 to 2004. (i didn't look for traps the first couple years) There is a road out of Wasilla called Fishhook Road. Since he uses fishhook, Alaska as an address, and he thinks it is weird for me to think maybe he lives on fishhook Road, then i think it is weird for him to think it is weird. Hope i didn't use weird too many times.

What kind of traps did you like to look for, Pineywoods?

Most anything rare. I have had a few pretty rare traps over the years. I have slowed down the last few years. I mostly look for Cast Iron mouse and rat traps from the 1800's and very early 1900's. I have collected axes for several years, but the last couple years i have been able to find some supper rare ones, so i will have to add axes to what i collect.

If I had been up there looking for traps when you were, I would have been looking for bear and wolf traps. Just thought that you might have had the same Idea.

I like old axes, but rarely run across any. Did find a small Plumb not too long ago. I've always hoped I'd find a trade axe with my metal detector, but it hasn't happened, yet. Thanks

I did mostly look for bear traps the first few years. I found out that i could trade a common bear trap for small traps worth MUCH more, because of its size. One of the many swaps i made was a #5 ATC for a Campbell (3 1/2 size) trap. People that saw the swap thought i was crazy. Well the campbell is worth maybe five times the #5. Never turn down a trap because it is small. Also, i did look for wolf traps. I had about three dzs. #114 O.C's at one time.

Interesting stuff, Pineywoods. Thanks for sharing.

Three doz. #114 O.C.'s?? Have you seen what the #114 ATC's are selling for? Around four hundred is what I've been seeing. I'd like to see what a nice O.C. would fetch.

The #114 OC's are not listed very high in the new Trap collectors Guide. I saw them go for twice what they have them listed for six or so years ago.

Pineywoods, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the Newhouse traps, and I'm hoping that you might be able to answer a question for me ... Is there a Canadian model #114? Thanks - No.4

Yes there is a #114 Canadian. Oc Pat Date, Made in Canada under the pan, square ring on the end of chain, no NY on the Pan or so very light it is virtually un-noticeable.

Could you show a pic of the location of the made in Canada mark? Is it on the bottom of the pan or what? Thanks, Tom

Thanks, Cat Trapper. Yeah, that's pretty much what my Vance guide says about them. I couldn't find the trap, in my Parr guide, so got curious.

It is stamped on the underside of the pan, 48s also were stamped underneath....

Thanks, the description of it being under the pan is a little vague.

No.4, I don't see anything in Parr's first book on the 114 Canadian either. Is this a made up trap or what?

Kind of makes one wonder, huh?

Its not a made up trap, if i knew how to post pics on here I would.
Thanks

mushrat, Do you mean Parr and Andresky left out an important trap in the Newhouse line TWICE? Maybe it is hidden under a different heading. I couldn't find it. I noticed they have a 114 listed with number 4 springs. I didn't think they would fit with the larger jaw posts.

That's another one that I was wondering about. Maybe someone has a pic of one?

Check cascades post on 114 traps.

Just in case that post gets buried ...

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4643061/114_Newhouse_traps#Post4643061

Thanks!

Are there any differences between #114 and #4 jaws, besides their height? Are the #114 jaws not any thicker/heavier both where they attach to the jaw post, and where the top eye of the spring rests than the #4 jaws? I have a #4, but no #114 to compare it to ....

No.4, The 114 jaws are way heavier than a #4 jaw. And I believe the 114 jaw posts are the size of a 4 1/2. If it wasn't so cold in the garage I would run out and check to be sure.

What the heck are your collector traps doing out in the garage, Dale? Shouldn't they always be within easy reach?