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#840436 - 08/18/08 03:55 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: ]
coondawg Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: SE Ohio

Quote:
I can tell you what caused Uncle Fester's hair problem, and the photoperiod is the least of his worries.
_________________________





It wasnt too many mating seasons was it? wink


Edited by coondawg (08/18/08 03:56 PM)
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Member Ducks Unlimited, OSTA, NWTF.

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#840460 - 08/18/08 04:20 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: coondawg]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 1970
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
Dairy farmers use long day lighting to trigger more intake and more milk but need to keep the non lactating cows out as they will not show a bump later. Goat and sheep breeders use light to manipulate estrus cycles. Cool weather is used many times to increase sperm fertility and that is why many seasonal breeding species in the temperate climates don't have successful conception during the early summer or warm falls.

Who is to say that the fox in MN has a totally different response hormonally to less day light than an Ocelot in Brazil.
Evolution is a complex proccess not just visiable things that we can phenotypically see.

Bryce

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#840464 - 08/18/08 04:32 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Fox Claw]
Hupurest
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Whisker Down


Did mammels continue thier normal fur loss - fur gain cycle during the last ice age? When the continent cooled did animals adapt and keep thier winter coats for longer periods of time?

My gut tells me that more than just daylight is at work, intersting though.


i BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE CALLED EVOLUTION, SURVIVAL OF THE FITEST. stupid caps lock.. anyways, either those animals adapted, either through evolution with the genetic traits of the survivors being passed down or the animals migrated to the climate for which they were suited.

I have caught Alaska beavers, which live in Glacially fed rivers, with a summer temp near 37- 40 degrees, and in october they are still blue, december, and they have primed up. So environment is not a factor in the primeness. However, the traits or genetic disposition for them to have a heavier coat even in summer has evolved, the primeness is still dependant on the light.

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#840483 - 08/18/08 04:45 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: ]
suredve Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 1292
Loc: mn
and god clothed them with animal skins.

just have to figure out what time of season it was.
smile
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my testimony...
gal 2:19-21 ol-kjv

http://www.alighthouse.com/thelighthouse.htm



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#840503 - 08/18/08 04:59 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: suredve]
Riverotter2 Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 625
Loc: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Around here it the Fish and Game Department.

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#840513 - 08/18/08 05:04 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Riverotter2]
kybeaverman Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 1318
Loc: kentucky
It has seemed to me that some years the fur didnt prime as quickly when we had exceptionally warm weather. I have also noticed that a few very cold frosty nights seem to cause the fur to prime up nicely.
However there is no question that the process begins because of natures law.

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#840593 - 08/18/08 05:52 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: kybeaverman]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14768
Loc: McGrath, AK
It surprises me that we still have this discussion each year. The science is clear.

The amount of sunlight received by the pineal gland, through the eyes, controls the release or non-release of hormones from the endocrine system. It is these hormones that begin and run the process we call priming. When spring is on the way, in the northern hemisphere, the light increase causes the process to reverse and we see shedding in our dogs and furbearers. Temperature has nothing to do with it.

Yes, altering light under artificial conditions will cause earlier or later priming or estrus cyles in captive populations.

Diet can have an effect on the quality of the fur but that is different from the condition we call'prime'.
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Mean As Nails

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#840668 - 08/18/08 06:34 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: white17]
tctrppr Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 313
Loc: Tyler Co. WV
"It's the PHOTOPERIOD -- the amount of daylight occuring each day."

He nailed it. Spot on!
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#840672 - 08/18/08 06:35 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: white17]
don Wolf Offline


Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5865
Loc: evansville Indiana age67
Yepper White 17, this ia an anual thing. White has this well written in short. You are 100% correct White 17.

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#841062 - 08/18/08 09:04 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: don Wolf]
Jack Kelley Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 248
Loc: Rupert, Idaho
Does anybody know how much daylight or lack of daylight is necessary before the pineal gland gets activated to begin priming process?
_________________________
Thanks,
Jack Kelley
Rupert, Idaho
58 years old

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#841080 - 08/18/08 09:12 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Jack Kelley]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14768
Loc: McGrath, AK
Jack; I suspect that it's a cumulative thing. In Idaho right now your daylight is shortening by about 1 minute per 24 hr period. At my house in Alaska it is much faster. Eventually we will be losing over 6 minutes per day of sunlight. Again, I suspect the effect adds up over time and is not an overnight thing. But you can see that in the northern latitudes we will get colder weather sooner than further south so nature provides a way (less light at a faster rate) to prepare the critters for winter.
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Mean As Nails

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#841120 - 08/18/08 09:26 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: white17]
RackDust Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 156
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa
Is the light going into the pineal gland effected by cloud cover, for example..Oct./Nov. nights which are overcast compared to long clear evenings...just a thought?
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#841635 - 08/19/08 07:22 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: RackDust]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 14768
Loc: McGrath, AK
No hard evidence but logically one would suspect that a cloud cover MIGHT have some bearing. Remember, we're talking about the UV part of the light spectrum and clouds don't have much effect on that wavelength. Remember your mom was right about going to the beach and getting just as sunburned on a cloudy day ?? Same deal here.
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Mean As Nails

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#842040 - 08/19/08 11:27 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: white17]
DFronek Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2332
Loc: N.e.WI. 45
Originally Posted By: white17


Yes, altering light under artificial conditions will cause earlier or later priming or estrus cyles in captive populations.


Fur farmers have been doing it for years for both pelting and breeding purposes.There is now a small pellet type pill that can be injected under the skin in the neck area of say a mink or fox that has the same effect as the melitonin(?sp) that will bring the fur into prime a month sooner.By doing this it allows the fur farmer a larger time frame to pelt when you have a large operation.Inject some with the pellet to get a jump on the pelting season.

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#842054 - 08/19/08 11:37 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: DFronek]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
why do critters prime up sooner in higher elevations, and is it true that you can place un-prime hides in the freezer to "prime" them up before selling ?
thanks in advance
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Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#842070 - 08/19/08 11:45 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Gary]
BigT Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 981
Loc: Iowa 39YRS Young
You bet I always pick up summer road kill and put it in the freezer! Primes it right up when the season rolls around!! smile
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http://www.kabeles.com

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#842072 - 08/19/08 11:46 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Gary]
DFronek Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2332
Loc: N.e.WI. 45
Originally Posted By: Gary
is it true that you can place un-prime hides in the freezer to "prime" them up before selling ?
thanks in advance


Only for possum,they never die.

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#842073 - 08/19/08 11:48 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: DFronek]
Nick C
Unregistered


PHOTOSYNTHESIS


LMFAO

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#842089 - 08/19/08 11:56 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: coondawg]
Tightchain Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 3346
Loc: S.C. Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: coondawg
So if we lock uncle fester in a windowless room all day will he grow his hair back?


ROTFALMAO I wish Fester was home to see that one
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Star Pupil of the Stancil Southern Speech Academy.......

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#842138 - 08/19/08 12:22 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Gary]
Fox Claw Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 806
Loc: backwoods N. Wi.
Gary, ain't you been following along? they don't. If fact, due to the curvature of the earth, at higher elevations the sun would rise earlier and set later. Therefore the animals would receive more light up there, hence they would prime later. It least that would be the case in order for the penial gland theory, as the sole determinate of primeness, to hold true. Right?

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