General Trapping Archive


No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum


~Catalog~

Print Thread
Hop To
Page 9 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: don Wolf] #854015
08/27/08 08:14 AM
08/27/08 08:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,102
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,102
McGrath, AK
I hear ya. It gets tiresome with just two fingers


Mean As Nails
Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Wackyquacker] #854063
08/27/08 09:17 AM
08/27/08 09:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192
ID-40
J
johnsd16 Offline
trapper
johnsd16  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192
ID-40
Originally Posted By: Wackyquacker
Originally Posted By: johnsd16
Oh my gosh, now you guys have really lost me.



That wasn't too hard; since that portion of my post was a total spoof...you got the last portion on estrus but seemed to have missed photosynthesis...pigment facilitated...

Again, if you disbelieve the relationship with hair growth and photoperiod what is your hypothesis to explain the observed changes collectively known as "priming"?



Remeber light trasducting in vision is pigement facilitated also, not just photosynthesis. I do believe that photoperiod is the #1 most important factor in priming. My beef is with guys saying it is 100% the ONLY reason any of these changes happen, and completley discounting any other factor. If you know anything about science, and I imagine you know much more than a little, you know 100% does not exist.

Good to see this baby back at the top, I was getting lonely.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16] #854202
08/27/08 11:11 AM
08/27/08 11:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Corrales NM
W
Wackyquacker Offline
trapper
Wackyquacker  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Corrales NM
[quote=johnsd16
Remeber light trasducting in vision is pigement facilitated also, not just photosynthesis. [/quote]

Here in lies a major part of the problem...selective "reading". You can make a legitimate argument that vision involves pigment facilitated energy transduction but you CANNOT make the further argument that bonds are formed...synaptic events are fundamentally electrical...light stimulation of the retina causes a "burst" of electrical activity (electron flow) to the brain conducted via neurons. This is so far removed from carbon fixation that it isn't funny.

The triggering event (environmental signal) for "priming" is the lack of photo stimulation of the retina. If you have an alternate mechanism to explain how gene expression relative to seasonal change occurs, now is the time for you to bring it forth. You see this IS how science progresses; evidence for a hypothesis has been presented; IT stands until new or other evidence disproves the interpretation. The ball is in your court.

You need to tell us what "sense" receives which environmental signal; taste / smell, touch, sound, site or something new possibly gravitational pull or changes in the magnetic field.

Since there is a direct and obvious link between the amount of solar energy striking any particular region of the globe and ambient temperature and since photoperiod change is both continual and gradual, it has been hypothesized that by monitoring light, individuals can effectively forecast and thereby adapt, in an efficient way, to specific changes in their environment. They grow a coat in advance of winter, shed their coat as the warmer spring approaches and grow a lighter coat for summer...as the days get shorter (gradually cooler) and get longer (gradually warmer). Some critters even change coat colors on a seasonal basis. The same goes for reproductive cycles, torpor and migration to list only a few; it’s all about light as the signal and adaptations that optimize behaviors relative energy conservation! These hypotheses have been well studied with the concomitant accumulation of mountains of supporting data; some of which have been reported in this thread, albeit with varying degrees of diminished factual accuracy and copious applications of mythology.

Now then, if you wish to continue with your denial of photoperiod and animal behavior, science demands that you come forth with a different hypothesis and supportive data.


Hard tellin not knowin
Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Wackyquacker] #854461
08/27/08 02:48 PM
08/27/08 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192
ID-40
J
johnsd16 Offline
trapper
johnsd16  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192
ID-40
So let me get this straight, now you're saying that electrons flow during neronal activity, WOW, that's a new one. I have always been taught that it was ions, not electrons. Hmmmm, interesting.

The movement of ions, (not electrons) causes a change in the membrane potential, during neuron depolarization. All of which is separate from what happens to pigment in the retina.

You really might be on to something here.

Speaking of selective reading, I do believe in my previous post I say that I agree that photoperiod is the #1 reason behind all this priming business.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16] #854486
08/27/08 03:13 PM
08/27/08 03:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Corrales NM
W
Wackyquacker Offline
trapper
Wackyquacker  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Corrales NM
You REALLY need to go back and review your basic biochem.


Hard tellin not knowin
Page 9 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Moderated by  Wolfdog91 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1