General Trapping Archive


Home ~ Mission Statement ~ Trap Talk ~ ADC Forum ~ Trap Shed ~ Trap Chat
Trapper Tips ~ Links ~ Gallery ~ Basic Sets ~ Convention Calendar ~ Trapper's Humor
Fur Buyers Directory ~ Trapper's Tales ~ Words From The Past ~ Legends ~ Archives~Lure Formulator Forum
~Catalog~

Page 8 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
Hop to:
#851474 - 08/25/08 06:58 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Sullivan K]
Heavymetal Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/07
Loc: Downsville,LA
what if in stayed night time all year they wouldn't put on a heavy coat or would it just go by the amount of moonlight in the eyes lol just enjoying the post.

Top
#851504 - 08/25/08 07:16 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Heavymetal]
Lynxcattrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/18/07
Loc: Idaho
YUP...stupid simple....or is it simple stupid???? to understand... grin grin dont worry...we ALLLLLLL have brain ferts once in awhile....your's will pass HOPEFULLY sooner than later grin grin NICE thread to read thru...
_________________________




Top
#851541 - 08/25/08 07:33 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Lynxcattrapper]
johnsd16 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: MN-30
Well guys I've learned a lot, and now I'm super pumped since I have a big old one eyed boar coon in my woods I keep seeing on my bear bait (he only has 3 legs too). I guess he'll be DOUBLE PRIME come opener. SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!
_________________________

Top
#851620 - 08/25/08 08:08 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Originally Posted By: johnsd16
Originally Posted By: GritGuy
Your just having a hard time with this ain't ya John, LOL

No temperature does have nothing to do with a pelts priming up!


I'm not the one having a hard time with it. White17 is saying it POSSIBLY does, but either he won't outright say it or doesn't realize he's saying it.



You apparently misunderstand . I am saying temperature has nothing to do with it.
_________________________
Mean As Nails

Top
#851660 - 08/25/08 08:24 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: white17]
johnsd16 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: MN-30
Originally Posted By: white17
Originally Posted By: johnsd16
Originally Posted By: GritGuy
Your just having a hard time with this ain't ya John, LOL

No temperature does have nothing to do with a pelts priming up!


I'm not the one having a hard time with it. White17 is saying it POSSIBLY does, but either he won't outright say it or doesn't realize he's saying it.



You apparently misunderstand . I am saying temperature has nothing to do with it.


Whoa, whoa, whoa, reeeeeeeeeeeewind. You said WIND "POSSIBLY" has something to do with it, but absolutely NOT temperature!

Now that is tooooooooo funny.
_________________________

Top
#851764 - 08/25/08 09:15 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Wind may have something to do with the fur being fluffy and coarse. I said I had noticed that in animals from windy environments. Dillon Montana, & Aleutian islands. I never said wind had anything whatsoever to do with priming.

If you want to continue to confuse prime with hair quality, go ahead.

Top
#851991 - 08/25/08 11:19 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: white17]
don Wolf Offline


Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: evansville Indiana age67
That is the reason I never posted on this topic. It is very clear that White is handling this in a professional matter. But he still has people trying to get him crossed up.

Top
#852018 - 08/25/08 11:45 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: don Wolf]
Wackyquacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: Corrales NM
The theory of light (actually dark) induced hair growth has been presented from about every angle possible and in physiological if not molecular detail and at dang near every reading grade level, i.e. vocabulary; yet you want it to be something else. How about YOU present a mechanism for altitude or temperature based induction. Something like maybe; at high altitude the pigment facillitated transduction of electromagnetic energy to chemical bond energy is slowed do to the gradual decrease / increase of gravitational pull from the moon that must occur as we approach the equinox. This reduction in rate of bond formation stimulates the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone)from the pituitary gland which causes fur to prime.



Edited by Wackyquacker (08/25/08 11:47 PM)
_________________________
Hard tellin not knowin

Top
#852140 - 08/26/08 05:34 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Wackyquacker]
merlin Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: NB
If that old coon were blind in both eyes he would stay prime all year round! LOL LOL

... and a blind dog never sheds his winter coat!!!

Top
#852212 - 08/26/08 06:59 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: merlin]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
LOL Joe !
_________________________
Mean As Nails

Top
#852278 - 08/26/08 08:19 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Wackyquacker]
johnsd16 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: MN-30
Originally Posted By: Wackyquacker
This reduction in rate of bond formation stimulates the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone)from the pituitary gland which causes fur to prime.




Oh my gosh, now you guys have really lost me. NOW the coon is going to ovulate. Whoa, I really don't get it now. Now you're telling me that the fur priming coincides with the coon breeding cycle.
_________________________

Top
#852303 - 08/26/08 08:42 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: white17]
Fox Claw Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/05/07
Loc: backwoods N. Wi.
Originally Posted By: white17
So lets not confuse pelt priming (skin side) with the quality of the fur. Two different things here.


I'm still following this post, its still intriguing. White17, great, informative posts. I think I read your post correctly, and I think your saying that the loss of daylight (and the insuing endocrine response) is what turns the skin side from blue to white. I can agree with this 100%.

Others here seem to be using a diffrent definition of "prime." Most people seem to be using the hair side at its peak of thickness and fluffiness, as the defining characteristic of "prime." Anyway, I just realized that your right, these are "two diffrent things" , completly diffrent things. This alone may be part of the problem.

Back to the Texas yote brought to minnesota. Let's say we brought a few truck loads of them up here and keep them isolated from the locals. Let's also assume that we kept them here for many generations. In the end, I think we'd all agree that they will have a thicker coat than the orininals brought from texas, but why is that? It's because each and every year, every generation, will have a few animals that develop a thicker, fuller, warmer coat on their own. These animals will be the likliest to survive and will be the most sucessful breeders. This slow adaptation, on a yearly basis, is what will result in the thicker coat of the entire population. Its natural selection, as a result of temprature, that will change the coat geneticly. Evolution proves that temprature has an effect on animals hair growth on a yearly basis.

As far as the time of year (within days) that the skin turns blue to white, I can't see how temprature would effect that. Other than the obvious fact that the further from the equator you get the colder it gets, and therefore the less daylight in winter. Sort of a "which came first - chicken or egg" argument. Seems like everyone here is more in aggrement than they realize, more a matter of syntax than anything else.

Top
#852423 - 08/26/08 10:36 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Fox Claw]
johnsd16 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: MN-30
Originally Posted By: Whisker Down
[quote=white17]
Back to the Texas yote brought to minnesota. Let's say we brought a few truck loads of them up here and keep them isolated from the locals. Let's also assume that we kept them here for many generations. In the end, I think we'd all agree that they will have a thicker coat than the orininals brought from texas, but why is that? It's because each and every year, every generation, will have a few animals that develop a thicker, fuller, warmer coat on their own. These animals will be the likliest to survive and will be the most sucessful breeders. This slow adaptation, on a yearly basis, is what will result in the thicker coat of the entire population. Its natural selection, as a result of temprature, that will change the coat geneticly. Evolution proves that temprature has an effect on animals hair growth on a yearly basis.



I don't think we'd all agree. I might, but no one else would agree with you.

Whisker........ I think I love you.
_________________________

Top
#852469 - 08/26/08 11:09 AM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16]
don Wolf Offline


Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: evansville Indiana age67
Ok I am going to make a input into this thread. Maybe I am wrong in my thoughts but it is what I have learned or thought I learned.
A hide in prime condition will have 3 parts to it. The guard hair, the underfur and the leather. From what I understand, the leather begins to prime in the month of Sept. This occurs as the summer guard hair and what little bit of fur the animal has, begins to shed. As the shedding process takes place the underfur and guardhair start to be replaced by new growth. As the month of oct. comes the leather on an animal goes from a blackish color in early oct. to a blueish color towards the middle of oct. Towards the last of oct. the leather starts turning a very light blue or slaty color and in some circumstances a light creamy color. As the month of nov. comes along the leather starts to turn a crem color which tells us the fur is becomming prime. As december rolls around , you will find allmost all pelts to be prime with the exception of a few animals that were lacking enough protein to build a good strong fur base.
after the month of dec. we will see a leather that is prime but the fur and guard hair or going downhill.
From what I understand the creamy color of the leather comes from the development of the underfur. From what I understand each filiment of underfur has a bulbous typ root to it. As the underfur is increased in volume it causes the leather to take on a creamy typ color. The colder or warmer weather causes more or less amt. of density or heaviness in the underfur.
Not only does the amt. of daylight have something to do with fur primeing but the amt. of protein taken in also causes fur primness.
In my own thoughts on the subject, I think the different kinds of food an animal eats can also cause a certain amt. of quality..
I know in this area that we have a bit of trouble with female coons that never prime durring season. I have always been told the reason for this was that the young coon had kept the mother depleated of her protein to help build fur, through their suckling.
I could go on for hours about this , but, I think I get my general point acrossed.

Top
#852582 - 08/26/08 12:28 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16]
Fox Claw Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/05/07
Loc: backwoods N. Wi.
I sure hope everyone would agree with that. Because if those yotes did not adapt then the entire theory of evolution would be debunked. The entire basis of science as we know it today depends on those yotes ability to adapt to thier changing environment. One yote in one season sure anit going to grow minnesota fur, but over many, many generations the texas yotes will display thicker, fuller hair than their ancestors. It will occur minutely and unnoticeably, but consistantly across the generations.

PS - If your a beliver in the "intelligent design" model all bets are off.

Top
#852588 - 08/26/08 12:31 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Fox Claw]
mark Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Logan County KY
Don, had you got in on the beginning of this, it would be on page 3 by now, and the other 150 or so posts wouldn't be here.
Folks, don't worry about it, trap what you got, don't trap before your fur is prime (mid Nov in most places), and let nature do what nature does.
_________________________
A "half truth" is still a whole lie.

Top
#852834 - 08/26/08 04:05 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: mark]
GritGuy Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Magna, Utah
LOL this thread is insane !!!!! Just goes on and on with continuing confusion about such a simple question with a simple placed answer!!

I can't wait to see it again next season!!! Might have more stuff in here with the moon and gravity,I like that it's a great digression LOL!!
_________________________


Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

www.wasatchwild.com

Top
#852836 - 08/26/08 04:06 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16]
Wackyquacker Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: Corrales NM
Originally Posted By: johnsd16
Oh my gosh, now you guys have really lost me.



That wasn't too hard; since that portion of my post was a total spoof...you got the last portion on estrus but seemed to have missed photosynthesis...pigment facilitated...

Again, if you disbelieve the relationship with hair growth and photoperiod what is your hypothesis to explain the observed changes collectively known as "priming"?
_________________________
Hard tellin not knowin

Top
#852841 - 08/26/08 04:08 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: GritGuy]
don Wolf Offline


Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: evansville Indiana age67
This question does get asked each and every year. It also ends up being long dragged our affair. But then we have new people on here that have not seen the answers in print.

Top
#853698 - 08/26/08 10:07 PM Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: don Wolf]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Don: I'll toss this in the mix in response to your post. When a pelt (skin) is black/blue, what we are actually seeing is hair roots because the skin in very thin while holding summer hair. As the priming process continues, the skin actually thickens over the bulb at the hair root in order to hold it more tightly. So what we are seeing when the skin is white, is actually thicker skin and an absence of visible hair roots.
_________________________
Mean As Nails

Top
Page 8 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

Moderator:  BlueRidgeTrapper, tmrschessie