Grounwalds fur buyers pays $3 extra for beaver put up. They said reason is they have a machine that fleshes beaver in 30 seconds. A trapper would be better off saving his energy to catch more beaver and sell skinned only. I put up a bunch for old time sake as this was first year I trapped spring beaver in years. I cut my time down after doing 15 and did a blanket in 14 minutes. That’s as fast as my 69 year old hands can go. I’m selling the rest just skinned. My hands hurt and my shoulders hurt I’m glad I did the ones I did as it brought back old memories. For $3 more each I surrender.

Where can I get one of those.

Fleshed and boarded in 14 minutes?

I wish , just fleshed in 14 minutes. I watched a guy on YouTube who catches over 70 beaver doing a how to beaver fleshing video. A blanket took him 40 minutes so that made me feel better about my 14 minutes. I know there are guys that can do blankets In under 5.

I read some older thread about beaver put ups, I can’t see how folks can board a big beaver in five minutes. I figure a blanket sized beaver is gonna have a circumference of 113” ( P= 2 x 3.14 x 18” ). Nails at 3/4 “ spacing is 150 nails. I’d have to put in 30 nails per minute, one every two seconds. I’d have every finger busted with the hammer after the second beaver.

A 1 1/4 or so between nails Is plenty.

Since they are buying beaver by the pound, why not only about 16 nails total? Plus why scape them completely clean, as long as the fat is off, leave that flesh around the head; it's all weight.

Or just take the $3 dock and not bother at all.

It would take me 30 mins plus to flesh one, I've never been good at fur put up.

My friends that sold to Groeny averaged quite a bit less than I did with my put up pelts at auction. I like putting up fur and for roughly $14 more a pelt I'll sell them at my local auction. Did sell my last batch to a local buyer and I should have just sold them to Groeny. I probably made a few dollars more than he was paying but not much. I didn't want to save the pelts till next year's auction so I sold.
I wish it only took15 minutes average for me to flesh a blanket. I don't time myself but that seems pretty quick to me.
I don't know anyone here that buys by the pound

If there is a machine that fleshes beaver in 3 minutes I want to see it. I believe there is a paul harvey version of that story.

Don’t matter how you itemize it. The averages and bottom line is all that matters. Influence you to think you only get $3 for a put up is another marketing ploy.

I clean skin so it takes me zero seconds to flesh a beaver.

It depends on what kind of beaver you have. If they're good heavies from places like N. WI, the UP, N.Minn, you can definitely do better than $3 by fleshing and selling to someone other than Groeny.

But, for most guys it probably won't matter much.

Where Groney really comes out on coon and beaver in the flesh, is dropping them all a size or two. Then it costs you more than $3.

I recall seeing a video of it on YouTube. They do half, flip it around and then do the second half. Slick!

Big… I use a loop stapler like the cable guys use for stapling the tv cable around in your house. They do not sink in all the way of course and a ground off screwdriver with a piece of metal tacked on for a prying point pops them out of the board in a heart beat when done.

Osky

I use to send to auction before the big one went bankrupt. We’re can a Wisconsin guy send to auction now? And yes it’s easy to drop a size when buying unprocessed beaver as they just quickly grab them and guess and it’s not in your favor.

As for 14 minutes to flesh a blanket I use a super sharp fleshing knife with very little pushing and I do the face with a scalpel super fast. 40 years of taxidermy has honed my skills but the guys who are really good make me look slow. I finally learned to sharpen fleshing knives which had always been a problem. Now it’s a breeze after watching a couple really good videos on it. Once you develop proper technique with fleshing knife the sharper the better. Wrong technique and your cutting holes.

So who is selling the beaver fleshing machine?

it's sec not minutes

Always interested me but don’t catch enough to matter but how long does it take to clean skin one

Danny,
I have previously watched the Groeny video. Wouldn't surprise me if it was custom made.

Having worked in manufacturing most of my life many companies build or have fabricated custom equipment for specialized jobs.

I can’t find any videos or advertisements for this machine. All that comes up is shaving machines which are not for fleshing. I’m going to ask Grounwalds when I sell about it.

I’m a clean skinner too but it takes me more time than rough skinning, if I remember right. I haven’t rough skinned in years.

If I was going to freeze for selling green I think a little meat on the hide would be better. I’d probably go back to rough skinning if I was selling at the Grony truck.

I used to clean skin but I can ruff skin and flesh much quicker

It’s close for me. Clean skin gets the nod when I figure messing with scrapings etc. I can also clean skin at camp without messing with beam or fleshing knife so hides are done and ready for boards when I get home.

I’ll look into a loop stapler…never saw one. I have an air stapler, but never used it on beaver….figured it would be hard to remove the staples. That sounds slick.

I switched to a brad nail gun after losing too many thumb nails. Faster and less painful.

On a good day I can rough skin a blanket sized beaver In about 8 min. I normally flesh the face when I'm doing the skinning. Ten or 12 min max to flesh It. Never timed the boarding of one.
Use to do the staple thing but found It took to long to pull the staples and you always left some In the board that had to be removed.. And If I ever left one behind I figure the grader would end up with a staple In his hand and that beaver would be down graded. LOL I noticed all those that clean skin seem to have to go back over the hide with some type of scrapper once the hide Is boarded. I don't have to do that.

I clean skin in about 20 minutes, used to faster but years are starting to catch up. I little touch up while boarding and it’s done. I usually figure about 45 minutes from first touch of the knife to having the beaver skinned, fleshed, boarded, castor taken, and gutted for freezing for cat bait.

GFW Scraping Beaver

https://youtu.be/miFlAp6TVlA?si=EV0RxRq-it8v2_19

I named that machine "The Market Killer" First it was for coon. That market is dead. Then it was for coyotes. That market is dead. Now it is for beaver.

Groeny has convinced some of you that put up fur is only worth $3 more. But that’s just his way of getting it for the low price he offers for skinned beaver.
Makes you feel good getting that money for skinned beaver while you laugh at others while they put theirs up.

$3 more for put fur is what Groeny pays. FHA pays a lot more.

I think both Boco and I both run over the pelt with a scraper lightly after it's boarded to pull out any remaining liquid grease or blood out of the leather. A couple of minutes worth. I did a demo at K. Falls in March and forgot my scraper so it was put up without the final going over. After dry it looks like most guys put ups.

I tried doing staples once but the first time I took staples out and realized how much more time that added to my pelt handling I s-canned that notion.

Fur graders and tanners hate staples. Guys dont always get em all out of the pelts and they slice fingers and ruin the shaving knives.

that video doesn't show the machine, I wonder if its a planer or modified planer? sounds like one

Google:" tannery fleshing machines."

If you are going to skin, flesh and dry, GFW is not your best option to sell. As stated, others pay more for finished beaver. GFW has a process that costs them approx. $3.00 to flesh, stretch and dry. It would not make any sense business wise for them to pay you more than their cost to do the same thing but other buyers who have not developed a mechanical process like GFW has are willing to pay more. GFW does buy some finished beaver but the percentage compared to green is small.

Would be interesting to know how their total beaver numbers compared to the total number handled by FHA. GFW processes a lot of beaver.

I think their machine may be an alligator fleshing machine?

In their video care is taken not to show the machine itself. LOL Don't want to give anybody ideas about getting their own set up.

And yes, Quiet, I also wonder how GFW's beaver numbers compare to FHA. I gotta think that GFW and other bigger buyers that have direct access to the felt industry do more volume.

That kind of reminds me of the old Wringer Washer concept for fleshing rats.

You nailed it buddy!

General question regarding fleshing......Lots of stuff made out of cowhide leather. How do you think is is fleshed? By Hand? Or mechanical?

I say mechanical and what GFW uses for beaver and raccoon is an adaptation of what is used to do cowhides. We could not afford leather products if it was not mechanized.

Most cowhides are shipped to China where they are processed into leather and shipped back to the US. It's cheaper than having them processed here.

peeler could do it............

Yep, sure. Why not.

All beavers are not created equal. This year’s beavers….they flesh super fast. Two year olds are really easy too. But the 50+ pound beavers don’t want to give up the gristle without a fight. I pretty much shave everything on them, except the edges around the belly.

I would still put my money on a mechanical fleshing process even in China and Russia where a lot of US cowhides go. And yes, it is cheaper but not just due to labor. They do not have the EPA and OSHA riding herd on the process and protecting the environment and the workers like we do. Not saying all regulation is bad but we do tend to over regulate and that drives up costs.

I think you could too if you used your toe nails.

I agree.

I didn't know that we shipped cowhides like that until I was visiting Dave Rodgers (Rodger's Hides and Supplies) years ago and he was working on a pile of them, turning them in a pile of salt. He told me they were destined for China to be tanned and then shipped back here.

I was astounded that it would be cheaper to ship halfway around the world and back for a tanning service rather than have it done domestically. He said it was for the same reasons you did.

It's probably because they can just go behind the tannery and dump the used chemicals out on the ground or into the bay and nobody says squat. Some of the leather coming back from China might be child laborers or prison camp inmates that didn't move fast enough.

Old Grant showed me there beaver fleshing machine back in the 90's while it was in use. It was that fast. The beaver were fastened to a metal grate looking thing and rotated threw a dryer. He told me it was made for them and what it cost at that time.

From the time the guy first touches the beaver to putting it back down fleshed was around 8 seconds not 30.

https://www.imdadinternational.com/hydraulic-fleshing-machine The red cylinder in the middle is the knife, the blades spiral out from the center. The bottom roller closes up and pinches the skin up against the knife, it's rotating down (fast). It also pinches the skin to the top roller; both of the rollers are feeding the skin back out as the knife is fleshing the skin.

So here’s a question as to whether the fur buyer saying you get $3 more is a ploy. If 2 guys show up at buyer one with put up beaver the other all unfleshed and they compare averages after selling and the put up beaver guy averaged $3 more only then it’s a fact not a ploy. Just wondering what you’re saying or referring to. Are you talking about selling at auctions?

You would have to be sure that the sizes were comparable though.

Ok , in this case they were identical because it was a planned test

Yep, that is very similar to what GFW uses. The hide is inserted halfway between the rollers/knife, the gap closes and the rollers feed the hide under the spinning knife to flesh half the hide. Gap opens back up, the hide turned around, the gap closes and the rollers feed the hide under the spinning knife to flesh the other half of the hide.

The machines are designed to flesh open skinned items and come in widths big enough to do cow hides. They can be coupled with conveyor or auger systems to catch and carry to waste meat/fat into a truck for disposal. Very efficient process.

The cutting blade is designed similar to the old reel type push mower I used as a kid. The old reel mowers were spiraled in one direction. The fleshing machines are spiraled in both directions from the center so this cuts from the center toward each side basically spreading the hide from the center toward each side. And the hide is always pulled under the blade by doing approx. half at each pass.

ploy /ploi/
noun

An action calculated to frustrate an opponent or gain an advantage indirectly or deviously; a maneuver.

Have you considered that this maneuver may allow the fur buyer the advantage of buying both put up and green more economically than his competition? Keeping the margin between green and put up minimal encourages sellers to opt for selling green which he can process cheaper than other local buyers, to his advantage. The few put ups that he does buy he gets cheaper since he is intentionally keeping that margin low. It also reduces the probability of no sales, since other options are much more limited for green frozen than put up beaver.

Those rascals! Some folks on here have most certainly been ployed with!

Makes sense what you say I worked for a fur buyer in mid 70’s. I saw him pull some super shady deals. One was to send one of his buyers with a 100 #2 red fox posing as a trapper. The unsuspecting buyer graded them much higher than they were and paid a $65 average when they should have been $45. His lack of true expertise cost him a bundle in the end. My boss was so happy he gave all of us in the shop a $100 bill. A $100 in 1975 was a lot of money.

What I want to know Is how they split a cow hide.

I'm sure we've all been ployed a time or two.

I saw the same thing. In the late 70s, early 80s, a lot of new buyers popped up. They got a line of credit from the bank, and started buying. Some were coon hunters, others were trappers. But few really understood fur grading and buying. One buyer got his hands on some southern rats, pawned them off on another buyer. Same thing with off colored, flat and Sampson fox. The real tip off should have been that these collections came from multiple sources….with different people putting up the fur. It should have been obvious to the buyer that they didn’t come from one trapper.

That video of the hides being fleshed, made me wonder how many arms and hands had been fleshed by the same machine.

In the late 70's bar owner turned fur buyer said he would pay $25 for any coon. I loaded up the early blue/slaty and dinks and dropped them at his place. A month later he was no longer buying coon.

Wonder how gfw fleshing machine work exactly an other automated stuff

Imagine a band saw horizontal instead of vertical. Knife edge instead of teeth. Table under the blade and it can be adjusted up and down below the blade leaving a gap for the desired thickness. Feed rollers draw the skin through the blade, part of the skin comes out the backside from below the blade, part of it comes out from above the blade.

What a world 8 seconds to flesh a beaver. I wonder what Jeremiah Johnson would think of that. I don’t like it it just seems wrong. I vote we make those machines illegal and while we’re at it also make fake chicken nuggets illegal to.

The reality of it is no one would process their own beaver if they really believed the were only getting $3 each for the process.
You could test the process by taking 20 beaver to the truck. Get the offer and then decline. Take the beaver home and board them. Now get 3 bids on the finished goods. Just sayin

If a trapper lives in an area with high quality beaver, the hardest part of the process is marketing.

I've put a a lot of beaver. 65 inch beaver will take approximately 65 to 70 nails.

I also worked for a fur buyer in Medford WI in the mid-late 70s. Those were wild times in the fur industry. We bought mostly dealer lots in the Midwest, and from a few trappers who walked in the door.
I'd be curious to know the town the fur buyer you worked for was.

Google "Alibaba" and on that website you'll see all the various kinds of fleshing machines for sheep/hogs that don't destroy the fur side.

Not so excited about 30 dollar averages for good beaver in 2024? It wasn't that exciting 30 years ago either.

30 years ago?

1994?

Decent ROI and time. Not so much now.

That wasn't my point though. I'd never intentionally, directly, sell to someone who says my green beaver are only worth 3 bucks more on average.

GFW likes to buy green and frozen because he nearly always gains at least one size over what he grades them at and lots of times two sizes. So it’s really costing the trapper more than $3 by not fleshing/stretching.

Eeyup

I think you broke the code!

I’m selling a bunch put up and 6 frozen I know how big the frozen are so I’ll see how he sizes them If he cheats I’ll walk and go to other buyer. I might go to other buyer first and walk then compare Groon price. We’re trying to decide between the to buyers so how else do you know. Of course that dosnt mean next time it wouldn’t be the other way around. It’s always a game if you’re after best price.

Sounds like fun.

This process is designed to discourage you from finishing. ( which generally doesn’t take much)

Likely be profitable to show your skins to someone that may have a greater appreciation for finished goods.

In most parts of the country Groney Is the only one buying fur.

Oakley is from WI. We have a few options. Wiebke, Barnes, Groenwold, FHA to name a few.

Most parts?

That's not true.

On another note, fleshed 20 beaver yesterday. Don't time myself often. 72 inch beaver 9 minutes. Did all 20 in 2.5 hours, the smallest was 60 inches. I'm slowing down in my old age.

That's mighty impressive Steven. You the man!

Wow, that's a heck of an average time.

To be fair I didn't board them, I helped with the last two.

I've never fleshed a beaver before but it still sounds impressive to me for timing.

That's a pretty Large run of Beaver..

Well with a size 3 hat and a 48 Inch shirt anything Is possible LOl

XL and XXL to be exact lol.

Someone is smarter than me and did the small ones.

AHHH....... the perfect beaver trapping partner!