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Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges #8088291
02/28/24 04:06 PM
02/28/24 04:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 182
Georgia
W
Wiz Offline OP
trapper
Wiz  Offline OP
trapper
W

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 182
Georgia
All,

The US Fish and Wildlife Service is currently taking comments on a proposed rule for the management of the National Wildlife Refuge System (NWRS).

The proposed rule specifically addresses prohibiting predator management on the NWRS but also notes that recreational hunting and fishing of predators is not considered predator management. It is unclear as to whether trapping is considered as a part of recreational hunting or not or if this only applies to APHIS Wildlife Services in their roles on the NWRS. In addition, we all know that predator management is important in managing predator populations both on specific properties as well as adjacent properties so this rule could have impacts to nearby areas.

The comment period is open until March 4, 2024.

The following is a link to the proposed rule. You can submit your comments by clicking on the Comment link in the upper left side under the title.

Proposed Rule: NWRS: Biol. Integrity, Diversity, and Environmental Health


I am encouraging everyone to submit comments on this proposed rule as there have been 17,000+ comments already submitted and the few I've read are saying predator trapping is evil with all of the same misinformation that we typically hear. If we don't comments, perception is going to be we don't care.

I submitted comments on behalf of the FTA today and am willing to share the pdf if anyone is interested.

Feel free to reach out if you have any questions.


Jason Wisniewski
Fur Takers of America

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8088311
02/28/24 04:32 PM
02/28/24 04:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Oregon
O
Oregon Beaver Tr Offline
trapper
Oregon Beaver Tr  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Oregon
Thanks, Jason for the heads up. One factor that most trappers fail to recognize is the importance of submitting comments on unnecessary anti-trapping rule changes that will negatively impact the science-based management of our nation's natural resources. There is a movement afoot nationally to ban public lands trapping and this is another effort to restrict or outright ban a science-based activity. From nutria control, to protecting the upland bird and waterfowl nesting success our state and federal wildlife area managers must have the best tools available. Trapping is just one of those tools!

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8088351
02/28/24 05:44 PM
02/28/24 05:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,332
texas
L
la4wd54 Offline
trapper
la4wd54  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,332
texas
Thanks for posting

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8088369
02/28/24 06:13 PM
02/28/24 06:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,853
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline
trapper
west river rogue  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,853
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
Commented on it

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8088379
02/28/24 06:30 PM
02/28/24 06:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 400
OR
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wws Offline
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wws  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 400
OR
Commented

wws

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8089030
02/29/24 01:00 PM
02/29/24 01:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 169
MN
S
Seek Offline
trapper
Seek  Offline
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S

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 169
MN
I’ll be commenting, thanks for posting.

When I was a kid, I submitted a bid to trap a NWR. If I recall it was rather inexpensive and gave me access to literally tens of thousands of acres. The only thing I could not trap was coyotes because refuge management believes (and still does) that coyotes prey on foxes and foxes eat ducks. Raising ducks was the primary mission of this refuge, so no coyotes were allowed to be trapped. It’s still that way.

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Seek] #8089040
02/29/24 01:12 PM
02/29/24 01:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,955
east central WI
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Dirty D Offline
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Dirty D  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,955
east central WI
Originally Posted by Seek
I’ll be commenting, thanks for posting.

When I was a kid, I submitted a bid to trap a NWR. If I recall it was rather inexpensive and gave me access to literally tens of thousands of acres. The only thing I could not trap was coyotes because refuge management believes (and still does) that coyotes prey on foxes and foxes eat ducks. Raising ducks was the primary mission of this refuge, so no coyotes were allowed to be trapped. It’s still that way.



thats the Mesopredator theory, Its not just foxes, its raccoons, skunks and possums. Studies have shown that coyotes act as a control on these animals and that these animals are more detrimental to nesting ground birds than coyotes. Its not just ducks its also pheasants and quail. In fact Pheasants forever also believes in this. So leaving coyotes alone is a benefit.

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Dirty D] #8089046
02/29/24 01:19 PM
02/29/24 01:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,063
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
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Providence Farm  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,063
Indiana
Originally Posted by Dirty D
Originally Posted by Seek
I’ll be commenting, thanks for posting.

When I was a kid, I submitted a bid to trap a NWR. If I recall it was rather inexpensive and gave me access to literally tens of thousands of acres. The only thing I could not trap was coyotes because refuge management believes (and still does) that coyotes prey on foxes and foxes eat ducks. Raising ducks was the primary mission of this refuge, so no coyotes were allowed to be trapped. It’s still that way.



thats the Mesopredator theory, Its not just foxes, its raccoons, skunks and possums. Studies have shown that coyotes act as a control on these animals and that these animals are more detrimental to nesting ground birds than coyotes. Its not just ducks its also pheasants and quail. In fact Pheasants forever also believes in this. So leaving coyotes alone is a benefit.




That's why you trap them all. Hard.

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8089114
02/29/24 03:09 PM
02/29/24 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,083
Ohio
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,083
Ohio
This is the link to make a comment.

Link <<< Click here.

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Dirty D] #8089180
02/29/24 06:03 PM
02/29/24 06:03 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11,114
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11,114
SW Georgia
Originally Posted by Dirty D
Originally Posted by Seek
I’ll be commenting, thanks for posting.

When I was a kid, I submitted a bid to trap a NWR. If I recall it was rather inexpensive and gave me access to literally tens of thousands of acres. The only thing I could not trap was coyotes because refuge management believes (and still does) that coyotes prey on foxes and foxes eat ducks. Raising ducks was the primary mission of this refuge, so no coyotes were allowed to be trapped. It’s still that way.



thats the Mesopredator theory, Its not just foxes, its raccoons, skunks and possums. Studies have shown that coyotes act as a control on these animals and that these animals are more detrimental to nesting ground birds than coyotes. Its not just ducks its also pheasants and quail. In fact Pheasants forever also believes in this. So leaving coyotes alone is a benefit.




Another study done in one part of the country that they think applies everywhere. I can pretty much guarantee if a coyote has a hen on a nest vs fox/coon/possum…he’s taking the hen and nest every time. Coyotes won’t touch coon or possum carcasses here, and other than the study in Texas I’ve never seen evidence of them even acting like they want any part of a coon or possum.
I don’t trap coyotes for ducks, but I’ll trap/kill everyone I can find to save a turkey.

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wanna Be] #8089300
02/29/24 08:20 PM
02/29/24 08:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Oregon
O
Oregon Beaver Tr Offline
trapper
Oregon Beaver Tr  Offline
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O

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
Oregon
The following is the letter that the animal rights, anti-trapping activists are wanting their members to send. Their "Coexistence" strategy is one that is entirely based on the mythical notion that active predator management is no longer needed, that all species will live in a state of equilibrium if man just steps aside. Trappers and hunters know this is not true! Our National Refuges today, Our public lands tomorrow. Following quote is AR's boiler plate letter to the USFWS.

"I support the USFWS taking a step in the right direction through the proposed regulation aiming to limit predator control across the National Wildlife Refuge System, as outlined in docket number FWS–HQ–NWRS–2022–0106. Nevertheless, the regulation should explicitly forbid trapping and the killing of predators for recreation and "damage control". All of these practices, excluded from the current rule, are deemed inhumane and contradict the fundamental purpose of establishing these lands as sanctuaries for wildlife.

The National Wildlife Refuge System is the only home many wolves, bears, mountain lions, bobcats, and foxes have ever known. The prohibition of predator-control programs and indiscriminate body-gripping traps on refuges is essential for making their home safer, increasing their wellbeing, and allowing them to flourish. As a result, carnivores will be able to fulfill their ecological roles, which promote ecosystem resilience, biodiversity and human well-being."

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8089310
02/29/24 08:30 PM
02/29/24 08:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,995
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,995
Central, SD
When trained biologist opinions are replaced with feelings then wildlife will be mismanaged from that day on. The saying in MI that stuck in my head was that, ““every persons a deer expert 2 weeks a year”. Bunny huggers have no idea of how conservation even works so why ask for input when you already know what they think.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8089354
02/29/24 09:19 PM
02/29/24 09:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,728
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
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5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,728
Virginia
I can attest to this without any reservation, there is no greater threat to ground nesting shorebirds than coyotes. They will find and raid every nest. Red fox come in second. Raccoons are wondering foragers with a bad case of ADHD and will raid a nest which they stumble upon. Raccoons do however pose a significant threat to ground nesting birds when the raccoon population is high it an area. Lots of wandering raccoons will stumble into enough nests to be a problem.

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8089359
02/29/24 09:23 PM
02/29/24 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,760
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,760
Georgia
300 acre former federal property in East Point GA with four ponds and a creek. First year on it every goose nest was raided. Not a single gosling hatched. I know because I was there catching water snakes and walked every inch of it.
Started trapping coyote and only coyote. The next year every nest successfully reared goslings. To the point that geese are now an issue.


[Linked Image]
Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8089495
02/29/24 11:15 PM
02/29/24 11:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 192
AZ
D
dixieland Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 192
AZ
Some of the rules and regs on some National Wildlife Refuges and state Game Management areas seem like a politician who has never been outside the city limits of Washington DC, set them. For example, in Arkansas, feral hogs are, and have been for years, out of control. Destroying habitat, ground nests, compete with wildlife for food, etc. Yet, page 27, of the 2023/34 AR Hunting Guidebook lists no less than 60 NWRs and GMAs, that feral hogs are protected 24/7/365.

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8089656
03/01/24 07:46 AM
03/01/24 07:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 6
North Carolina
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Rustychains Offline
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Rustychains  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 6
North Carolina
My area is overrun with nutria. A buddy of mine wanted to shoot some on a nearby NWR. He stopped by the office to make sure it was ok…. They told him all fur bearers are protected on the refuge…even the invasive ones!
So much for trying to preserve the habitat!

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8089704
03/01/24 08:44 AM
03/01/24 08:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,412
East Texas
B
BTLowry Offline
trapper
BTLowry  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,412
East Texas
They run deer and turkey hunts on some down here.
If you shoot a deer you better find it quick or there will be bone and fur left for you within a short time

Rules prohibit taking any critters other than feral hogs when engaged in a deer or turkey hunt

I get having a natural balance but not allowing any one thing to go unchecked.

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8110226
03/28/24 11:13 PM
03/28/24 11:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 182
Georgia
W
Wiz Offline OP
trapper
Wiz  Offline OP
trapper
W

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 182
Georgia
Hey y'all,

I wanted to bump this thread as I learned some new information about this published proposal this week at the WMI North American Wildlife and Natural Resources Conference.

Apparently, this policy was published in the FR with a tighter than normal turn around time and it caught many state agencies and regional organizations off-guard. As a result, the Fish & Wildlife Service has re-opened the comment period until May 4, 2024.

USFWS BIDEH Policy and Comments

Some long-time agency professionals have said that this is a policy that everyone needs to pay attention to and comment on. They said after discussions with retired refuge managers, this policy could eliminate sound wildlife management on refuges which will bleed over onto nearby lands which are frequently state refuges under the management of state agencies.

At last count, there were over 100,000 comments submitted with the vast majority being from anti groups through their mass mailing systems.

I'd encourage everyone to submit comments if you have not already with focus specifically on the fact that predator control needs to be defined and the inconsistent management of the refuges in relationship to the landscapes around them.

Let me know if you have any questions for which I can help.

Jason Wisniewski
Fur Takers of America

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8110291
03/29/24 06:21 AM
03/29/24 06:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 14,228
Michigan
T
Trapper Dahlgren Offline
trapper
Trapper Dahlgren  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 14,228
Michigan
thanks Jason

Re: Predator Control on Wildlife Refuges [Re: Wiz] #8110329
03/29/24 08:10 AM
03/29/24 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 379
NW PA
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washxc Offline
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washxc  Offline
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Posts: 379
NW PA
Thanks. Browsing through the most recent comments, they're clearly generated by AI/spambots from anti groups. They're not real people. Commenters getting their own states of residence wrong compared to their signature tag line, mixing other PETA messages not related to the wildlife refuge system in to this comment section. Hopefully this is obvious to the ones who are in charge of this commenting system, but I have my doubts.....

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