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Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations #8072573
02/09/24 09:49 AM
02/09/24 09:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,703
Idaho, Lemhi County
G
Gulo Offline OP
"On The Other Hand"
Gulo  Offline OP
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Idaho, Lemhi County
I scratched my head over many years on this one. In interior Alaska, some summers were fantastically high yellowjacket years, other years you'd never see one. Why? Well, I was snap-trapping voles for many years, trying to get a handle on owl and marten food. I noticed a crash in voles led to the next summer being a banner yellowjacket year. The vole crashes (mostly red-backed voles) coincided with chinooks (warm February or March winds). I surmised that the voles would get wet during these chinooks, and when sub-freezing temperatures returned (which they always did), the voles succumbed to the elements.There were wild swings in the vole population, dropping or rising 40 times from year to year. I further looked at yellowjacket "cycles". On years that we had drastic chinooks and the vole populations crashed, we would have tremendous summer populations of yellowjackets and bald-faced hornets. It all made sense, when you considered that the voles, all winter long, are sub-nivean (beneath the snow) in the leaf litter and duff, eating over-wintering yellowjackets. With no voles around, many more overwintering yellowjackets survive to produce the eggs and the yellowjacket populations increase. It all made perfect sense.


Yellowjacket nests were most-often in trees.
[Linked Image]


Some nests were on rock cliffs, while some were ground-nests.
[Linked Image]


Red-backed voles were typical over-wintering yellowjacket predators.
[Linked Image]


I snap-trapped thousands of voles to monitor populations levels of marten prey.
[Linked Image]


Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072577
02/09/24 09:54 AM
02/09/24 09:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,496
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
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white marlin Offline
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central Haudenosaunee, the De...
that is very interesting, Jack!

Thank you for sharing your hard-won (and very thoughtful!) insights!

[I've suddenly become a big Vole fan!]

Last edited by white marlin; 02/09/24 09:56 AM.
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: white marlin] #8072582
02/09/24 10:02 AM
02/09/24 10:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,703
Idaho, Lemhi County
G
Gulo Offline OP
"On The Other Hand"
Gulo  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Idaho, Lemhi County
Originally Posted by white marlin
that is very interesting, Jack!

Thank you for sharing your hard-won (and very thoughtful!) insights!

[I've suddenly become a big Vole fan!]


white marlin - I, too, am a big vole fan. There's about 6 species that are very important prey items for the marten in Alaska, foremost of which is the red-backed vole. It's what's for dinner!

Jack


Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072593
02/09/24 10:18 AM
02/09/24 10:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
IN
W
wiley one Offline
trapper
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Joined: Oct 2019
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IN
Hi Jack -- Thanks for the insights. Quite interesting. Your hypothesis, I think, presumes that a pretty significant % of yellowjackets spend their winters on the ground in AK? They have both abve and in ground nests here in IN; but we notice more in trees, especially after leaf drop in the fall. they're a PITA to me, as every few years, they get into the soffit cracks and build a nest inside the house rafters. Plus, they're constant nuisance as they and the bald face's chew the wood on the kids' playset in late summer/early fall and it keeps the kids from playing on the swings/slides. I've since learned, from the smart folks on this forum, how to get rid of the nests using canned chicken + Navigator SC: https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7867219/yellow-jackets#Post7867219

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072612
02/09/24 10:47 AM
02/09/24 10:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,505
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
UGH..... if I could blink and make things disappear....those and Baldies. They kill honeybees. My favorite insect.

They are well programmed in how they take wood and make nests. I'll give them that.

Thank you, Jack , I too love voles !

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Sharon] #8072628
02/09/24 11:09 AM
02/09/24 11:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,436
New York border
Cragar Offline
trapper
Cragar  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,436
New York border
Originally Posted by Sharon
UGH..... if I could blink and make things disappear....those and Baldies. They kill honeybees. My favorite insect.


I feel the same way. A couple of years ago , there was a honeybee in the place I work. It was buzzing around the windows to get out.
My co-worker thought I was nuts because I very carefully caught it alive with a cup and a piece of paper , then took it outside. If it was a yellow jacket it would have been dead.




Great write-up , Jack. Kudos.


NRA benefactor member
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072668
02/09/24 12:02 PM
02/09/24 12:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,269
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
People are sometimes not aware that yellowjackets produce viable queens that are the ones that overwinter and keep the species going. All the workers die out late each year.

I like your hypothesis Jack. It must be very satisfying to se put the pieces of the puzzle together like that.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072676
02/09/24 12:24 PM
02/09/24 12:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,566
coastal ny
G
gcs Offline
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coastal ny
Very interesting..."here", I've never seen an above ground yellow jacket nest, all are under ground, The hornets build those paper nests in trees and shrubs...

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072716
02/09/24 12:58 PM
02/09/24 12:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,236
Priest River, Idaho USA
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SundanceMtnMan Offline
trapper
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Priest River, Idaho USA
I always thought the big hanging nests were paper wasps. I don't think I have ever seen a bald faced hornet nest, we don't have a large population of them. I have found I can mostly eliminate yellow jackets by heavily trapping the queens when they appear in the spring, a wet spring seems to affect them also.
I always enjoy your posts Jack.


"They Say Nothing is Impossible,
But, I Do Nothing Every Day."
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072730
02/09/24 01:14 PM
02/09/24 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,312
Wisconsin
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RdFx Offline
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Wisconsin
Jack , studies on Wis martens found the red back vole to be a preferred lunch if available. Studies show areas of high population of red back voles in marten territores carry martens


RdFx
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072741
02/09/24 01:30 PM
02/09/24 01:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,269
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
The paper nesting and ground nesting yellowjackets are different species.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: gcs] #8072750
02/09/24 01:42 PM
02/09/24 01:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,604
NC, Orange Co.
QuietButDeadly Offline
trapper
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trapper

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NC, Orange Co.
Originally Posted by gcs
Very interesting..."here", I've never seen an above ground yellow jacket nest, all are under ground, The hornets build those paper nests in trees and shrubs...


My experience as well. Ground nests for yellow jackets here. The paper nests are bald faced hornets and the yellow European hornets nest in hollow trees.


Life Member: NCTA, VTA, NTA, TTFHA, MFTI
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Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072775
02/09/24 02:27 PM
02/09/24 02:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,968
rogers city mi.
J
jeff karsten Offline
trapper
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rogers city mi.
Interesting since hornets and wasps make themselves known i've noticed in wet years hanging nests Dry years ground nests by both jackets and baldies And after a mild winter like we are having now an uptick in bugs of all kinds specifically ticks wasps and hornets


olden tyred
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072784
02/09/24 02:35 PM
02/09/24 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,916
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
trapper
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trapper

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Posts: 2,916
Adirondacks, NY
I always thought that yellow jackets lived in the ground and those large paper nests were bald faced hornets. In any event I like to see all of the red back voles dead.

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: jeff karsten] #8072787
02/09/24 02:37 PM
02/09/24 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,703
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Gulo Offline OP
"On The Other Hand"
Gulo  Offline OP
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G

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Idaho, Lemhi County
Originally Posted by jeff karsten
Interesting since hornets and wasps make themselves known i've noticed in wet years hanging nests Dry years ground nests by both jackets and baldies And after a mild winter like we are having now an uptick in bugs of all kinds specifically ticks wasps and hornets



Very interesting, Jeff. I'll be watching this closely. We had an "average" summer in 2023 (12 inches annually). Yellowjackets were way down. We've had several "dry" years before that (2018-2022) and yellowjackets much more common.


Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072801
02/09/24 02:47 PM
02/09/24 02:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,774
Manitoba
Shakeyjake Offline
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Manitoba
We've always had lots of wasps on dry years. Flea man should chime in soon.
We were cutting a trail last summer. buddy drops his axe and runs towards the quad and takes a knee. I'm thinking "you lazy bugger get back to chopping" as I'm running the saw and 30 yards away. He disturbed a nest under a log, got hit about a dozen times and couldn't see for a minute or 2. Looked like he got hit with a baseball bat across his rearend. Usually they come for me and I'll bolt for about 1/4 mile, I HATE those things!

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072819
02/09/24 03:15 PM
02/09/24 03:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,703
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Gulo Offline OP
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Gulo  Offline OP
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Idaho, Lemhi County
In interior Alaska, both Vespula and Dolichovespula seem to prefer aerial paper nests. I've never seen a bald-faced hornet (Dolichovespula) nest in the ground. but plenty of yellowjackets (Vespula). Most common yellowjacket is probably V. norvegicus.


Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072831
02/09/24 03:25 PM
02/09/24 03:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,660
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
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Georgia
Down here our "ground nesting" yellow jackets aren't always in the ground. They regularly take up in above ground cavities. No open air nests like hornets though.

One interesting and painful twist is they don't always die out overwinter. In mild winters you can have a nest survive and when that happens you end up with multiple foundresses surviving and working cooperatively to build massive nests.

The largest I've ever removed I quit counting at eight foundresses and occupied a four foot diameter hole in a dirt bank.


[Linked Image]
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072832
02/09/24 03:25 PM
02/09/24 03:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,269
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

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Oregon
One of my older brothers worked for Massachussets Parks and Recreation for a summer on their yellowjacket eradication team. Of all the baits tunafish was by far the best. The oilier the better.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: gcs] #8072878
02/09/24 04:08 PM
02/09/24 04:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,496
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
W
white marlin Offline
trapper
white marlin  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,496
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
Originally Posted by gcs
Very interesting..."here", I've never seen an above ground yellow jacket nest, all are under ground, The hornets build those paper nests in trees and shrubs...


that's been my experience in Pennsylvania.

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072889
02/09/24 04:17 PM
02/09/24 04:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,505
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline
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Posts: 11,505
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Among the most serious riding I've evah done was with a friend on her horses, she has a bad habit of wanting to short cut and bushwhack off trail up the sides of mountains.

After a short cut , we came down the slope onto an old logging road. We stopped at the edge for a rest. Her horse backed up a few steps and put his draft horse extra large 9 shoe right on top of a Yellow jacket nest in the ground. We didn't know it at first. They boiled out of the hole as soon as he lifted his hoof a little , and stung him on the back leg. The look on his face was priceless. He raised his big neck and stamped hard with that leg from the sting. Of course, he stomped right through the ground surface and down inches into the nest further.

When we realized the mayhem , we took off dead run. Being moderately allergic to hornets, I stuck to my saddle like superglue. The horse I was on, was new to me, and I just hope she wouldn't buck as she ran. She didn't. But my friend's draft was bucking high, wide and mighty every leap he took , lol . My friend rode that out.

The swarm followed us for some yards before they stopped.

It reminded me of Trapstickman's cartoon of him running in the hornet swarm, lol.

Hate it when that happens ....

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072979
02/09/24 06:18 PM
02/09/24 06:18 PM
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michigan,USA
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seniortrap Offline
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michigan,USA
I have no love for the Bald Face hornets.


Vietnam--1967 46th. Const./Combat Engineers

"Chaotic action is preferable to orderly inaction."
"After the first shot, all plans go out the window!"
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8072988
02/09/24 06:42 PM
02/09/24 06:42 PM
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Posts: 9,705
ND
M
MJM Offline
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MJM  Offline
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M

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ND
Rootok Island had more voles than I ever saw any where. We never saw any sign that the inbred fox were feeding on them. We caught them by hand and in minnow traps making trail sets. There was vole trails everywhere. We put out different baits and they never ate any of it. Peanuts, and chips they had no interest in. It seems like they were red backs. I was on about 25 different islands and it was the only island I saw them on.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8073028
02/09/24 07:41 PM
02/09/24 07:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,227
Manitoba
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Northof50 Offline
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Manitoba
Spring conditions also are need for a colony to build up with the queen doing all the work for 2 weeks till the first 8-12 are produced.
Hot and dry is good aphid production = food source the the queens foraging
Rain knocks the aphids down and less hunting time for her.

Gulo dont forget the shrew population as they probably consume more, we found that snap traps were not the most effective catch for shrews ( sorex and micro sorex), but we had some special traps made in England with a trip wire that shrews set off catch ratios went up 10 fold.

Leaf duff and how it freezes down in the fall also effect overwintering queens. Wet leave=frost fast= few get through

Most the southern climate( below 52 parr) is now infested with a european wasp that is mistaken and those colonies over-winter in peoples home= 500 workers to start the season. this invasion has happened over the last 20 years

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8073122
02/09/24 09:37 PM
02/09/24 09:37 PM
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east central WI
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Dirty D Offline
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east central WI
I've always thought that the large paper nests are from "Paper Wasps" and Yellow Jackets nest in the ground.


The idea of getting stung always kept me away and thus getting a closer look at the bugs.
now I'm going to have to just for my own curiosity.

Always nice to learn one more thing about the natural world that we live in.

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Dirty D] #8073131
02/09/24 09:46 PM
02/09/24 09:46 PM
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Posts: 5,436
New York border
Cragar Offline
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New York border
Originally Posted by Dirty D
Always nice to learn one more thing about the natural world that we live in.


X 1000


NRA benefactor member
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8073217
02/10/24 12:10 AM
02/10/24 12:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,619
N. Carolina
S
Scout1 Online content
trapper
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Posts: 3,619
N. Carolina
I never knew how many different varieties of yellow jackets there are. Here we find them in the ground mostly, but often in paper nests on trees. I have found, the hard way, one hornet nest in the ground. Most of them in the trees. Late summer and early fall, the yellow jackets always seem whizzed off. Growing up, if we found a hornet, yellow jacket, or wasp nest, we suffered knocking them down to get the larva for fish bait. I would about have a tooth pulled than be stung by a bald faced hornet. There is a guy on youtube with good videos digging up nest with shop vacs. Of course he has a suit on. Great post Gulo.


-------------------------------------
DJT & MTG in 2024!
Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8073315
02/10/24 08:09 AM
02/10/24 08:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,342
East Texas
B
BTLowry Offline
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East Texas
Down here in Texas we have southern yellowjackets. They live in the ground mostly or in some sort of cavity.

Hornets build in the trees in those paper "ball" nests


Gulo that is good work, figuring out the cause/effect relationship between those 2

Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Sharon] #8073334
02/10/24 08:34 AM
02/10/24 08:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,156
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

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Posts: 63,156
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Sharon
Among the most serious riding I've evah done was with a friend on her horses, she has a bad habit of wanting to short cut and bushwhack off trail up the sides of mountains.

After a short cut , we came down the slope onto an old logging road. We stopped at the edge for a rest. Her horse backed up a few steps and put his draft horse extra large 9 shoe right on top of a Yellow jacket nest in the ground. We didn't know it at first. They boiled out of the hole as soon as he lifted his hoof a little , and stung him on the back leg. The look on his face was priceless. He raised his big neck and stamped hard with that leg from the sting. Of course, he stomped right through the ground surface and down inches into the nest further.

When we realized the mayhem , we took off dead run. Being moderately allergic to hornets, I stuck to my saddle like superglue. The horse I was on, was new to me, and I just hope she wouldn't buck as she ran. She didn't. But my friend's draft was bucking high, wide and mighty every leap he took , lol . My friend rode that out.

The swarm followed us for some yards before they stopped.

It reminded me of Trapstickman's cartoon of him running in the hornet swarm, lol.

Hate it when that happens ....

What a horrible experience

...until later

Awesome post Gulo


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Photo Phriday 122 Yellowjacket Populations [Re: Gulo] #8075058
02/12/24 01:07 AM
02/12/24 01:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,527
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
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martentrapper Offline
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Moved to Fbks, Ak.
I don’t know much about yellow jackets and hornets. I do know that voles survive floods quite well. First spring in Alaska and lower Nowitna flooded for miles on each side of the river. Thought sure the voles were all dead. Not even. Caught loads of marten the next winter near the mouth!

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