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Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8062469
01/28/24 10:58 AM
01/28/24 10:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,966
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,966
Central, SD
Some advice from experience that I learned the hard way. Never use any exposed railroad ties in construction around a boiler, never think bark pieces on the ground won’t burn and spread (walk) a fire over a larger area. Plastic pipes or hoses burn like wood once they get going run all lines underground when possible as dirt and gravel won’t burn.

Protect your boiler coals from the wind with a metal/ brick wall or have a containment area for dropped embers to stay in. Minimize the wood stacked in that containment space next the boiler to the next fill only no more. Clean up loose bark and clean out the boiler on calm days only. If you have a hydrant near by or water containers in a heated building wet the areas down or toss snow around if you drop coals or in hurricane winds when your loading. Wood siding burns and steel won’t so use steel when you can near the boiler or stack landscape bricks to make a firewall.

The way I figured it when I had my fire it was during hurricane wind time a coal fell out, after I scooped up what I found I missed some that the wind took. An old railroad tie probably started up then that started the bark on the ground going. The only reason the shed caught fire was the waterline went into the side of the build that should have been run underground.

The fire walked across the bark scrap on the ground that I left to keep the wood off of the dirt a big mistake on my part. That ended up starting the stacked woodpile then my favorite mini truck. So several things if done differently might of prevented or minimized the damage of the fire I had, so if it can go bad it probably will so plan accordingly.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8062509
01/28/24 11:46 AM
01/28/24 11:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,137
Adirondacks, N.Y.
T
trapdye Offline
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trapdye  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,137
Adirondacks, N.Y.
Like said above, If you have access to wood, go wood. Did it for years, now at my age, pellets are a lot less work. They drop em by the cellar door & I bring in enough for a week at a time. I have a ranch that is 1624 sq. ft. stove heats it all.


John's Nuisance Wildlife Control
If you like what you do for a living, It's better than a vacation. Most days.
Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8062557
01/28/24 12:57 PM
01/28/24 12:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,250
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
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HayDay  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,250
Missouri
A type of heater not yet mentioned are the rocket mass heaters......which are popular amongst the hippy / dippy off grid crowd. In short, they tend to be one of / custom built down draft gasifiers. The only one I know of that is commercial built is the Liberator. https://rocketheater.com/

Rocket mass heaters are one room space heaters that are almost 100% efficient as they burn incredibly hot (2300 F) for a short burst of an hour or less, then a mass of masonry of some type stores and radiates the heat for about 12 hours or so. The upscale version is a masonry heater, which resembles a fireplace, but does the same thing in a conventional looking, upright fireplace type structure. There is a guy a mile or so down the road that has one. His is a masonry wall about the size of a couple side by side refrigerators that separates his dining room and family room and radiates warm, comfortable heat into both all day and all night. But again, these are line of sight space heaters. The bedrooms and bathrooms on the other end of the house are going to be freezing without some form of circulating heat. But none of them require any electricity to run. Just light a match.....then stand back and watch it go.

The advantage of a wood boiler is you now have a means to circulate your heat. Having now looked into it, the gasifier boilers (like the heat master) working the same as the rocket stoves........but are a lot more complicated. Control boards? Fans? Draft controls? Yet so does most any other modern era boiler and even forced air systems. But the crude nature of burning wood, and required loading and ash removal does complicate things. Have watched more than a few utubes on these and have yet to see one where the owner was out there in the dark, 20 below in a howling snowstorm stoking his boiler. Yet that is the reality of an outdoor boiler.

So if you were going to have one, unless you are able to do that, seems you better to have it under some type of shelter you can get to without having to bundle up. Or at least under a roof like a cheap metal carport......that will shed the weather, keep the wood dry and you out of the weather whilst stoking and cleaning out the ashes. And a 55 gallon drum or two for ash storage.

Or.........it looks like they also make INDOOR boilers.....one you can put in your basement. As crazy as that sounds, the house I grew up in and my grandmother's up the road both were built with coal chutes and coal bins. Both had wood / coal forced air furnaces in the basement. I can't imagine a wood fired boiler being any different and they both worked fine. To stoke it, just put on your slippers and head off to the basement and doesn't matter what is going on outside. More complicated, more expensive, but it would work.

But hook either type of boiler to a hot water radiant floor heat system and that ought to be a sweet setup.

PS: Having seen how the down draft gasifier boilers work, still think it would be possible to design a mechanical fuel feed system using wood chunks. Same concept as pellet stove or grill, just bigger pellets.

Last edited by HayDay; 01/28/24 01:20 PM.
Re: Heating a home [Re: HayDay] #8062656
01/28/24 03:02 PM
01/28/24 03:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,042
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,042
Indiana
Originally Posted by HayDay
A type of heater not yet mentioned are the rocket mass heaters......which are popular amongst the hippy / dippy off grid crowd. In short, they tend to be one of / custom built down draft gasifiers. The only one I know of that is commercial built is the Liberator. https://rocketheater.com/

Rocket mass heaters are one room space heaters that are almost 100% efficient as they burn incredibly hot (2300 F) for a short burst of an hour or less, then a mass of masonry of some type stores and radiates the heat for about 12 hours or so. The upscale version is a masonry heater, which resembles a fireplace, but does the same thing in a conventional looking, upright fireplace type structure. There is a guy a mile or so down the road that has one. His is a masonry wall about the size of a couple side by side refrigerators that separates his dining room and family room and radiates warm, comfortable heat into both all day and all night. But again, these are line of sight space heaters. The bedrooms and bathrooms on the other end of the house are going to be freezing without some form of circulating heat. But none of them require any electricity to run. Just light a match.....then stand back and watch it go.

The advantage of a wood boiler is you now have a means to circulate your heat. Having now looked into it, the gasifier boilers (like the heat master) working the same as the rocket stoves........but are a lot more complicated. Control boards? Fans? Draft controls? Yet so does most any other modern era boiler and even forced air systems. But the crude nature of burning wood, and required loading and ash removal does complicate things. Have watched more than a few utubes on these and have yet to see one where the owner was out there in the dark, 20 below in a howling snowstorm stoking his boiler. Yet that is the reality of an outdoor boiler.

So if you were going to have one, unless you are able to do that, seems you better to have it under some type of shelter you can get to without having to bundle up. Or at least under a roof like a cheap metal carport......that will shed the weather, keep the wood dry and you out of the weather whilst stoking and cleaning out the ashes. And a 55 gallon drum or two for ash storage.

Or.........it looks like they also make INDOOR boilers.....one you can put in your basement. As crazy as that sounds, the house I grew up in and my grandmother's up the road both were built with coal chutes and coal bins. Both had wood / coal forced air furnaces in the basement. I can't imagine a wood fired boiler being any different and they both worked fine. To stoke it, just put on your slippers and head off to the basement and doesn't matter what is going on outside. More complicated, more expensive, but it would work.

But hook either type of boiler to a hot water radiant floor heat system and that ought to be a sweet setup.

PS: Having seen how the down draft gasifier boilers work, still think it would be possible to design a mechanical fuel feed system using wood chunks. Same concept as pellet stove or grill, just bigger pellets.



In the heat master your talking about I almost bought instead of my older c375 model I did get. The wood has to have the right moisture content and be cut and split small like an indoor wood stove. Also they have issues with the wood bridging and the fire going out. I was also conserned the tubes in the back the smoke runs through would clog up after the sales man said they had to bee taken apart and cleaned now and then because the system they sell it with does not keep it clean enough all the time. They burn half as much wood and burn much cleaner putting out very little smoke. The trade off Is being more complicated expensive and limited on what you can burn. Having to cut and split it small . They are neat and efficient for sure.
I didn't get one because it was my first outdoor unit and they were more complex with more to go wrong. With me not home a lot I wanted it simple for the wife. I also didn't have a good day wood supply built up and it was going in in October . So went with the old style.

The indoor approve units have a switch that creates a draft and pulls air I'm the door when it's open to keep heat and smoke from coming in the building. It also cuts power to the blower that blows air into the fire when it kicks on. When the blower kicked in flames will come out above the door at times more than a foot.

The draft also eliminates the poof or back draft that occurs after the blower kicked off and the fire is burning down starving for air . If you open the door at that time air shoots in and you get an explosion fire ball shooting out of the door. Very bad if inside a. Structure. This is why you open the door a crack an inch or two and wait 5 to 29 sec and stay behind the door so the door protects you from the fire ball if it happens. It will still come around enough to burn the end of your beard.

Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8062699
01/28/24 04:34 PM
01/28/24 04:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,988
new york
M
mike mason Offline
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mike mason  Offline
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M

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,988
new york
My friend has a Tarm with storage. He makes 2 fires a day(pita), wood has to be split very small and mc has to be 16-18%. On very cold stretches he has to time the fires, so the storage makes it through the night. Wat too complicated for me. Start a fire in September and run to June, load twice a day and comfort!

Re: Heating a home [Re: mike mason] #8062709
01/28/24 04:52 PM
01/28/24 04:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,761
Sumner, Mo.
C
claycreech Offline
trapper
claycreech  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,761
Sumner, Mo.
Originally Posted by mike mason
My friend has a Tarm with storage. He makes 2 fires a day(pita), wood has to be split very small and mc has to be 16-18%. On very cold stretches he has to time the fires, so the storage makes it through the night. Wat too complicated for me. Start a fire in September and run to June, load twice a day and comfort!



Yes that’s another thing I love.
I started a fire October 28th. Been lit ever since. Don’t have to let it go out to clean some ashes out.
So much better and easier.

Re: Heating a home [Re: claycreech] #8062723
01/28/24 05:02 PM
01/28/24 05:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,042
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,042
Indiana
Originally Posted by claycreech
Originally Posted by mike mason
My friend has a Tarm with storage. He makes 2 fires a day(pita), wood has to be split very small and mc has to be 16-18%. On very cold stretches he has to time the fires, so the storage makes it through the night. Wat too complicated for me. Start a fire in September and run to June, load twice a day and comfort!



Yes that’s another thing I love.
I started a fire October 28th. Been lit ever since. Don’t have to let it go out to clean some ashes out.
So much better and easier.


2x. It's all about simplicity and ease of use . Saving money on heating and having a warm old farm house helps to.

Last edited by Providence Farm; 01/28/24 05:04 PM.
Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8062855
01/28/24 07:09 PM
01/28/24 07:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 3,842
Wisconsin
G
Guss Offline
trapper
Guss  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 3,842
Wisconsin
Wood

Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8062898
01/28/24 07:39 PM
01/28/24 07:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,571
Nebraska
Trapset Offline
trapper
Trapset  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,571
Nebraska
I know there are advantages to wood boiler. But, I can’t imagine going through all the cutting hauling etc involved in heating with wood, and not be able to feel that wood heat feel.

Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8063326
01/29/24 10:16 AM
01/29/24 10:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,729
ND
M
MJM Offline
trapper
MJM  Offline
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M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,729
ND
I would not want a out door furnace. When it is blowing and 20-30 below, I don't want to wade through a three to four foot snow drift that wasn't there to stoke it twice a day. Some how that doesn't even sound fun to me. .


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Heating a home [Re: MJM] #8063327
01/29/24 10:19 AM
01/29/24 10:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,988
new york
M
mike mason Offline
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mike mason  Offline
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M

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,988
new york
Originally Posted by MJM
I would not want a out door furnace. When it is blowing and 20-30 below, I don't want to wade through a three to four foot snow drift that wasn't there to stoke it twice a day. Some how that doesn't even sound fun to me. .

But you will wade through a 4'drift to catch a $3 rat! grin

Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8063330
01/29/24 10:24 AM
01/29/24 10:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,571
Nebraska
Trapset Offline
trapper
Trapset  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,571
Nebraska
I had a buddy in Canada who had a fuel oil back up on his outdoor wood boiler. If he left home for a few days he would change to fuel oil and lower thermostat. Not sure if he rigged that up himself or if it was a commercial add on deal. If propane or fuel oil back up is available from manufacturer I’d sure have it if I heated with an outdoor boiler.

Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8063348
01/29/24 10:49 AM
01/29/24 10:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,250
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,250
Missouri
On my wood chunks as fuel idea, looks like it has already been done. Except they use wood chips vs. chunks. But looks like you better also have a standby generator and a BIG checkbook. Ouch.

Would also want to have a wood chipper and maybe an old silage blower or drag chain elevator to load your storage bin. More ouch.



Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8063352
01/29/24 10:52 AM
01/29/24 10:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,966
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
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Posts: 34,966
Central, SD
If you have another heat source that will heat the boiler if you’re gone for a while the element that fits in the furnace would cycle warm water through the system. It takes days for a boiler to totally burn out depending on the ash set up. You light an outdoor boiler once in many cases, it takes a lot for my boiler to burn out completely.

I went out this morning and did not fill it the coals were still deep it will need it to burn down for the morning before filling it since dinner time yesterday. I raked the coals to the front and I’m good for a few more hours with no drop in max temperatures. When the coals go down just top off the hopper and it goes on its own.

It’s free heat I don’t mind doing a little work I enjoy the country lifestyle I have other ways to spend my money foolishly. LOL I spent money on cat supplies and fuel to drive 100 miles round trip a few times a week to catch a cats that won’t recover most of it.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8063386
01/29/24 11:37 AM
01/29/24 11:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,868
Pa
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Wright Brothers Offline
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Pa
Burrowed a page from the Northerners playbook
and am burning white pine during the day.

When you have lemons....





Re: Heating a home [Re: Wright Brothers] #8063404
01/29/24 12:03 PM
01/29/24 12:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,966
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,966
Central, SD
Originally Posted by Wright Brothers
Burrowed a page from the Northerners playbook
and am burning white pine during the day.

When you have lemons....



I see a lot of evergreen wood piles out west in the Black Hills all I can think is I bet that guys in good shape from hustling wood. grin


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8063411
01/29/24 12:16 PM
01/29/24 12:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,729
ND
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MJM Offline
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MJM  Offline
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Posts: 9,729
ND
I have a wood stove in the basement. It helps heat the house and cuts down on the amount of propane I use. It will run without electricity. I have a wood/coal bin off the basement that is 18'x10'x8'. It has a hole to the outside, I can throw wood down. For the weather here and wind we get, a out door just would not make much sense to me. It would drift in so bad you would spend a lot of time moving snow to get to wood and get wood to the furnace. Ground blizzards are pretty common here. If one works where you are, good for you, but it does not mean they would work every where.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Heating a home [Re: MJM] #8063430
01/29/24 12:43 PM
01/29/24 12:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,947
east central WI
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Dirty D Offline
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Posts: 1,947
east central WI
Originally Posted by MJM
I have a wood stove in the basement. It helps heat the house and cuts down on the amount of propane I use. It will run without electricity. I have a wood/coal bin off the basement that is 18'x10'x8'. It has a hole to the outside, I can throw wood down. .


thats a great setup. My neighbor had the same thing in a old 2 story farm house. The advantages are the wood gets tossed down and gets dried even more all winter long in the basement exposed to the heat from the wood burner. Also heat rises so no need for electricity to move the heat, its all done on its own. no need to run around out in the cold daily to keep the fire going. Also the mess is all contained in the basement where its less of a deal. If your going to have a wood stove this is the best way to do it no doubt.

I have a masonry heater, most efficient way to heat with wood no doubt. No electricity, even warm heat all thru the house, minimal mess with most often one fire per day occasionally 2 fires per day in real cold weather. Downside is upfront cost, every couple of days cleaning out ash and I go thru lots of kindling. But as I do wood working I generate all kinds of kindling.

No one solution fits all or best in all situations.

I don't have to have a generator, I have solar with a battery backup. Only downside is keeping the panels clear in the winter. If the sun comes out they melt clear pretty quickly on their own. But there are times that I brush off the bottom 3 of 5 rows so that they melt quicker. I don't need to worry about fuel for the generator and maintenance along with it working when needed, the solar and batteries are always working. The only maintenance I do is monthly topping off the water in the battery cells.

Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8063458
01/29/24 01:19 PM
01/29/24 01:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,868
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
trapper
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Pa
Can't talk right now Law Dog I gotta,,, grin

That's quite the story on the fire. I remember when it happened.
Glad everyone ok.
One thing I often see from people is
their handling of ashes they THINK are cold.
Our Elders drilled that into our heads.
Burning wood with poison ivy too.
Hold your breath and watch this,





Re: Heating a home [Re: scheide] #8063490
01/29/24 01:51 PM
01/29/24 01:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,966
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,966
Central, SD
Looks like since it warmed up the last fill will go 24 hrs. I can’t do much in my basement because I don’t have one, like said what works for one guy won’t work for the next one. A guy also picks up wisdom the more he uses a certain type of heat to get the most out of it over time. I learned that most boiler issues come from maintenance problems that are easily fixed.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
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