Well I hate to join the debate (not really) but have to say I agree with the majority on here including (sit down) Jbyrd. I could probably kill a yote with a steel ball if I hit him just right
with a sling shot but why would I hunt with it? I thinks its great some have poured hours of testing, reloading tests, field tests etc. And I know things have come a long way but I just don't
see the point behind it? My son grew up with a pellet gun, moved on at age 7 to a .410, moved on at age 10 to a 20 then at age 15 to a 12. My 6 month old grandson will probably take
this same path pretty close and for a reason.

The point behind it is that I can carry a 3 pound gun in the field with virtually no recoil while others carry 8-10 pound guns and cringe everytime they touch off one of their 3.5" shells

And I sacrifice no performance

Oh and then that look on people's face when their eyebrows raise and they ask you what you're shooting....that's priceless

But you are sacrificing performance, all things being equal, that’s the whole reason to move up….. smh

Example….

For those that can’t follow, if I want a car to go over 120 mph and I have access to a 1985 Chevrolet Chevette and a 1985 Chevrolet Corvette. Why would I choose to tear out the engine, ship it overseas to have some engine guru in Japan figure a way to throw in twin turbos and who knows what else to every piece of that car to make such a thing happen? When I could just put my foot on the throttle of the Vette a little harder??? Seems like a lot of time and effort for nothing to me. But I’m too busy working and providing for my family at this point in my life to waste time doing things that aren’t necessary. Maybe when I’m retired I’ll have time to waste…

I have never killed a turkey with anything larger than a 20g and #5 lead. Works great no need for 3.5" 12g for turkey. But it was because at the time it was the only gun I had that took screw in chokes and I could use a tighter choke. My boys are using 20g now for turkey and3" #5s works well for them.

If my boys both tag out this spring I may take a gun this year and hunt for the first time in a decade. But I will be packing a cheap 12g express. Just becuse a 20 works does not mean a 12 is not better. When I can't pack the weight of my gun and need a lighter one than a light 12 or 20 it will be time for me to hang it up. I'm also cheap and don't have time to load my precision rifle ammo I actually enjoy shooting, save money on and get a good accuracy
improvements doing so I don't have the time to wast trying to load affordable ammo to make a sub par gun preform when I can buy a box of any #5s in 20 or 12 and go hunt cheaply.

For someone with more time and or money they are willing to invest in doing so good for them. I'm to cheap and my time to limited and valuable for me to mess with it.

At the end of the day I just don't think it's worth messing with for shotguns. They shoot shot and a pattern accuracy. They are a close range affair and a box of shells is a box of shells to me. Rifles are a different animal to me I'm a rifle small group at long range guy. If it were legal I would hunt turkey with a rifle.

TC1, no reason to get worked up and make it personal, but since you took the jab, here goes

I'm far from retired. Full time engineer that lays block and brick on the weekends. I only work about 60 hours each week so that leaves me time in the evenings to reload. I run my raps before work at about 4am.

Just because you can't fit it in your schedule doesn't mean others can't. I don't require 10 hours of sleep each night to function. I have sold two loads that I developed to shotshell manufacturers that are now patented and produced loads. The argument could be made that my reloading hobby does, in fact, "provide for my family"

There may even be talks of publishing a tss reloading manual with a large reloading supply company in the future based on my, and a couple others, load data...

But yeah, I'm just wasting my time

Now I love playing with load development with rifles back when I worked 64 and 72 here weeks 35 miles from home so I understand the enjoyment of doing so and making time. Never even thought about trying to market any loads and it very impressive you have and been successful doing so.

Now I work 12 and 16 hr days 80 hrs a week 127 miles from home and stay gon up to 9 days at a time so have no time at all for hobbies other than taking the boys hunting. I do make time for that but even that suffers not getting enough scouting before hand and everything is last minute.

Do they market the supper shot in 20g for 3$ a shot or is it closer to 10$ a shot? If on the bottom end I may try it out for the boys this year. I still can't wrap my head around how 7.5 shot that just puts down a dove now equals a heave load of #5s in preformance. I won't hold buy a 410 but would be willing to give it a try in 20g if not to expensive.

YES wolfie order them then paper pattern them at 30 -40 50 yards . Bet a german shepherd could walk thru that pattern ...

Heck order a case then dump out the buckshot and pour #6 shot in them . Resale them for 40 bucks. Box...

coon dagger I'm tickled you "tinkered" and found the load that works for you. I'll never own a 410 turkey gun as I have no need for it. I have mentioned that the company that loads Winchester long beard shells was located about 5 miles from me. I worked with the guy that owned it. They got a new sealing machine and it put too much sealer /wax on the ends of the shells and Winchester rejected them. I was GIVEN 10 boxes each of 4,5, and 6 shot of 3 in long beard. I gave a lot away as I won't live long enough to use them. I kill 1 sometimes 2 turkeys per year . Most shots I think I have ever used in 1 year is 4. You do the math . Last inventory I still have 3 boxes of #5 . 2 of the #6 , and 2 1/2 of the #4. 10 rounds each box. Oh yes mine are still cheaper than yours even with your discount !!!!

Good luck

The commercial loads of TSS are expensive, probably somewhere up there around 10 bucks a shot. They price gouge the heck out of it

It costs me about $4-$5 a shot to load the heavy 20ga turkey loads. That's mainly why I shoot the smaller guns because they still give me plenty of pellet count and use less shot so its cheaper

7.5 shot would be about like 2 shot lead. To get to lead #5's you would be looking at TSS 9.5's. The most available TSS size is #9's which is like lead 4's

Doesn't take long to recover the cost of reloading equipment when the markup on most all shotshell ammunition is 100% or more

Your reading comprehension sucks jb63.

With the very few shot shells I use a year and having zero extra time it is better for me just to buy some. Now you guys have me curious and I may just have to do some experiments with it. Starting off with small shot like the 9s you are talking about on pets coon an opossum. Normally I take a rifle when nothing driving the farm on pest patrol but this is for science.

I'm interested in how the smaller shot can have better terminal preformance. I get if it's g
Heavy and smaller it will penetrat deeper and being smaller have more pellets. But being harder than lead it won't flatten out so it seems like it would be a wash at best there. But more smaller pellets would make the pattern density and pellet count on target much better for smaller gage guns and that is what makes them now a viable option for thing they were not before.

Ok I'm slow and need to talk and work it out on my own.lol. dose not help I never liked shotguns much except for birds and rabbit. Looks like some experimenting is in order

Well here I am getting ready to go on a 12 day, 3 state turkey trip with a 12 gauge and 3.5", TSS and didn't realize I'd be better off with a pee shooter? How would I have known,
and at 6'3", 260 pounds how will I handle the recoil and carrying that gun around on a sling all day/week?

bass that's why America is the greatest country on earth. If you think it takes 905 pellets to kill a turkey then you are more than welcome to think that way and the shotshell manufacturers are more than happy to take your money. Thank you for stimulating the economy

No one said you weren't capable of handling the gun or that you would be better off

It is just my opinion that if you are going to shoot a 12 gauge, shoot lead shot. TSS in a 12 gauge is just wasting shot. TSS shines in 20 gauge and smaller

[quote=coondagger2]bass that's why America is the greatest country on earth. If you think it takes 905 pellets to kill a turkey then you are more than welcome to think that way and the shotshell manufacturers are more than happy to take your money. Thank you for stimulating the economy

No one said you weren't capable of handling the gun or that you would be better off

It is just my opinion that if you are going to shoot a 12 gauge, shoot lead shot. TSS in a 12 gauge is just wasting shot. TSS shines in 20 gauge and smaller[/quote

You are 100% correct plenty of people feel the way you do and plenty of people feel the way I do. I will spend $10 on a shell everyday for a harvested bird and not think twice about it. If a bird holds
up at 70 yards I feel confident I can kill it and move on to the next bird or my sons birds. I always hear that you need to be a better caller and get them at 30 yards and not worry about the extra
fire power. Just watched a video of a bird at 70 yards struttin with 3 hens and the guy was a world champion caller and couldn't get it closer with 3 live hens? But this is off the original thread and this
dead horse has been debated to death. IMO we are all brothers out there and should just accept how others want to approach things!

I will have to disagree with you on recovering the cost. I don't duck hunt and we are allowed a maxium of 6 birds. (2 in spring 4 in fall) Take a lot of years to recoop the cost of the difference ? Just me .. But have at it. Heck i'm 60 doubt I live long enough or kill enough too justify it.

BUT YOU are missing your own point DEAD IS DEAD !!! You point that out when explaining your use of TSS . I'll use that in justifying my FREE number 5 out of my 12 gauge .......

....even though I want this for shots 10ud and under?....

10 yards and under ? Just use a tobacco stick ! Heck they’re free around here . If the range is 10 yards I’d use my heritage trapping pistol 22 long rifle hollow point . CCW I put 19 out of 20 in the 10 ring . Think it was 8 yards . First one I over sighted it popped an 8 ring with it ...

I know you don't shoot much, but I do

I shoot about 5-6,000 rounds of shotshells a year. Ducks, geese, turkeys, etc and lots of trap. It didn't even take me a year to recover the cost of purchasing all of my reloading equipment

Turkeys are a very small percentage of what I shoot at. Not that this thread is about turkeys anyway

How do your free #5's do on coyotes at say, 50 yards?

Not what I would use on coyotes at 50 yards ! number 2 birdshot in 3 in magnum . Works just fine !!! I d say better than 410 BBB buckshot. NOT ENOUGH PELLETS in the shells pictured.
When do you have time to shoot that much with your work schedule you explained to TC1
Coon I'm glad you are the koolaid cannon president. BUT STOP just stop. I'm going to. You might be an engineer and prolific hunter / shooter. BUT I 'm just a stupid Ky redneck that has been living in the woods persay since I was 6. NO WAY a 410 loaded with the EXACT type / size of shot will out perform a 12 or a 20. Quoting you yes your combo will kill under right conditions. You call people out for using it in a 12 guage say it's overkill. Heck why do people use a 300 win mag ? To me that's over kill! Anything over a 270 in North America is "wasting money"

BUT my 12 gauge loaded with the same thing would do better.....

Compare apples to apples. You are constantly saying # 9 TSS is same density as #4 lead or what ever ! Well 2 130 lb blondes weigh the same as 1 260 lb redhead but that aint the point !!!!!