BUT the big factor you are missing that I said from the start is the powder charge behind it. Will your 410 kill a turkey ? Yes you posted pics complaining how tough the hunt was but you killed it first day .OOOOH so tough LOL. But by using the smaller shell with less powder it's range is limited. Ok load you some 12gaige tungsten SS and compare it. Would the 410 stand up to it? You keep talking about 25 yards being the magic range. Funny how if that is your limits as others have confirmed "they like to work the bird it that range " Well I've taken several out to 60 yes confirmed 60 with my single barrel using rem nitro number 5. Have I mussed birds yes! anyone that says no is lying You keep talking about density is the killing factor. Yes and that dense pattern not being exactly on the head neck region can result in a missed bird. If that theory is wrong then rabbit hunters would use 22 shorts instead of shotguns.

Little comparison of shot composition and how it relates to density and penetration for the physicists out there.

"Here's the distance each type pellet will give you 1.25" of ballistics gel penetration, as well as showing the number of pellets per ounce. When you think about the penetration per pellet along with the number of pellets available to penetrate the target, these numbers will illustrate why density makes such a huge difference in a shotshell's performance on fowl.

8 g/cc Steel #2 (123/oz) – 45.7 yds
11 g/cc Nickel Plated lead #5 (174/oz) – 60.4 yds
12 g/cc Hevi-13 #6 (208/oz) – 60.4 yds
15 g/cc Fed HWT #7 (220/oz) – 81 yds
18 g/cc TSS #8 1/2 (300/oz) – 84.5 yds

In addition to penetration energy and pellet count, there is a 3rd factor that doesn't show up in the math - patterning characteristics. In a nutshell, the denser and harder the shot material, the better the pellets will hold together in a pattern. In real life scenarios, on real birds, the 18g TSS will actually do better vs lead, because of hardness. It will break bones better, or any other hard material, because of it's hardness and lack of flattening out when it comes into contact with any surface."

The chart is from a ballistics program. No shots were fired. Once again, if the shot is fired at the same velocity it will have the same penetration if it is fired out of a 410 or a 12ga. The limiting factor will be pattern density.

410 loads (13/16 oz) cost me about $5, 20ga (1 5/8 oz) about $6-7 and 12ga (2 1/2 oz) about $12 per shell. The 410 shells would be cheaper but I had to pay about twice as much for the hulls.

Hey one element that ALL these charts didn't and will never put in a column is the PRICE PER POUND ! if you got 100 bucks to spend on turkey shells you will kill MORE birds and I'll borrow a tungsten phrase here because you will have more pellets to shoot at turkeys LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

I buffer most of my reloads to gain pattern. Use plated or hard Magnum shot. I know someone that wraps buckshot in old X-ray film or one can buy the same type product from BP. Factory Winchester xx magnum 1 5/8 oz. are good shells.

You really do not understand how this works, do you?

Take their decoys away and you really start to hear the squealing, lol!

I mentioned cost per lb in my first reply.
Saw a couple local guys build a shot trap behind their pattering board to recover their TSS shot.

FWIW, I toss lead #5 at turkeys, at reasonable distances, inside 40 yds, usually inside 30, and no issues.

But fooling with TSS in ML shotguns, just out of curiousity.

So if NO shots were fired how they know how much penetration they got thru a ballistics gel? Now the truth is coming out . Your info is "based" on a computer program ?? ! right??? I wondered how big the gel was to hit it at 147 yards LOL

But heres the deal NO WAY is a 410 going to have the same velocity as a twelve . Yes maybe a low brass compared to 3 in 410. But I'd have to pull out my reloading bible and it's at my dad's basement. YES reloading bible charts made from actual shots being fired. You might want to pick one up....

Yes jerry I understand "how it works" Like I said you guys are the 6.5 of the shotgun world. MILLIONS of deer and elk have been killed with a 270, 30-06, 243 heck even a 30-30 but none have been killed as good as the ones that fell to the mighty 6.5 creedmore.

I commend you for finding a way to use your childs starter gun to hunt turkeys with. But very few guns/ shot shells on the market or under a truck seat wouldn't kill a turkey at 25 yards. I might hunt with some extra dove shells I had left over and range them at 25 yards...Dead bird is a dead bird. So if you do it with your 410 I applaud you. Just like the 6.5 I didn't jump on that wagon and won't be buying anything to join the "koolaid kids club"

I was using the 410 before it became popular as were many others.

Some folks overthink a (scatter gun). Only thing I've bought in my life is dove loads,#6s and 4buck. I'm not a quack head though so I've never had to buy that SS or tung stuff

I have been reloading everything for over 25 years. My reloading stuff resides in MY basement, not my daddies.

Remember, these are max loads for a 410 so use a max load for the 12ga (heaviest shot charge).

According to hodgdon online data you can get 1400 fps with winchester AA hull in a 12 gauge with 1 1/8 oz of lead shot and 1100 with 11/16 ounce of lead shot in a 410. If you load 1/2 ounce in a 2 1/2 inch shell you can get 1300 fps with a 410.

With a 3 1/2 inch shell in a 12 gauge and 2 1/4 ounces of shot you get 1150 fps

First of all, I have never missed a turkey. I haven't killed a lot but have killed every one with one shot. All lead, 20 gauge. Longest shot 37 yards.

But my real point here is to say....jbyrd, you may be confusing terms here. The density of shot....whether TSS or lead or steel........is not the same thing as the density of the pattern.

Just hoping for some clarification.

Good point, may help clarify things.

But then, I'm dense, LOL

TSS is MUCH denser than steel, or lead, or bismuth.
At a given velocity, it hits HARD, as per the penetration/ distance data I posted earlier.
And by using the small shot, ie, TSS #9, you get a LOT of pellets.

So, end result, a dense pattern of a dense pellet.

I understand that tungsten is denser than lead from the material aspect. But the point They seem to keep making is number of pellets on target . Thus denser pattern.

More than double the number of pellets! I refer back to the many pics of pellets on a target. NOT one pic of how deep the pellets went into a board or card board box . JUST number down range..in the circle.

Our reloading equipment was set up on his work bench when I was 12 I was loading my own shells at 13 . Never had a reason to move it to my house but that may happen soon as he is 82. But for quick math purposes I'm 59 , started when I was 13 Hmm Got you by a few years there sonny. BUT I DON"T load everything. Just what I use and it works great . Haven't had the need to load anything in several years as I don't plink or tinker anymore. Found what is deadly at the ranges I hunt . Loaded up all the empties I had , Brass and hulls. Store them in a dark temp and humidity controlled safe . So I'm good.