Re: Waterbury traps?
[Re: bigmac2]
#7244701
04/16/21 10:29 AM
04/16/21 10:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,806 Waldo, OH
hogwild
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OP
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Waldo, OH
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What do you mean by (patent trap) ? That's what he called it so I don't have a clue. He did say they were the predecessor to the Blake and Lambs.
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Re: Waterbury traps?
[Re: hogwild]
#7244752
04/16/21 11:59 AM
04/16/21 11:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,445 revillo, sd
cohunt
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,445
revillo, sd
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Is your trap a long spring or an underspring? That will begin to help us. If your trap is a double underspring with the number 3 in both lower corners of the pan(actually stamped in circles) and Waterbury marked on the pan then it is a trap produced late in the 1800s and perhaps into the 1900s. The Patent Traps the person was referring to would likely be the traps marked only Patent April 26 1859(first) or Patent April 26 1859 RI 1878 underspring traps that were produced by Blake Lamb and Co from about 1865 until late in the 1800s that were not marked with a company name or with Waterbury. The long spring traps that were also made by Blake Lamb & Co from about the end of the civil war onward were marked initially with BL&CO Waterbury and later with Blake Lamb Co Waterbury along with size numbers. Good photos of the trap including chain and a close up of the pan would help in determining which trap it might be. Estimating value will be difficult with many variables involved that include scarcity of the particular model and especially condition. As a general rule, the long spring traps are much less common but much more valuable than the underspring traps
added. Dean's post above beat mine and included some of the same information that I posted here.
Last edited by cohunt; 04/16/21 12:10 PM.
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Re: Waterbury traps?
[Re: hogwild]
#7244771
04/16/21 12:28 PM
04/16/21 12:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,806 Waldo, OH
hogwild
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They are all undersprings. And I will try and get a few pics later on. But I could not read anything other than no.3 on this particular trap. Plus, it has square pans with no rounding off of the corners, like my other Blake and Lamb undersprings.
Last edited by hogwild; 04/16/21 12:28 PM.
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Re: Waterbury traps?
[Re: hogwild]
#7245829
04/17/21 10:28 PM
04/17/21 10:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,445 revillo, sd
cohunt
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,445
revillo, sd
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The following comments are my personal opinions and the time estimates especially will be debated by other Blake Lamb collectors. This is about the best I can do in a very brief write up as there is not a lot of documented information on these early Blake Lamb traps.
The trap with the visible 3s on the corners of the pan has a large square pan and is a Blake Lamb & Co double underspring. The trap with the visible 3s was likely manufactured shortly before or after 1900. Slightly earlier versions of the same trap had a narrower pan but had size marks in the corners like the one pictured here. The trap does not have an original chain. The chain appears to be from an Oneida Community underspring trap from the early 1900s. Later traps are marked Blake Lamb & Co Waterbury CT in a single central stamping and were so marked until about 1925. Blake Lamb & Co traps made after 1925 were marked Hawkins Co and had an address of New Britain Conn, had rounder corners on the pan and had the chain attachment point moved from the crosspiece to the end of the trap. All these traps originally had lock link chains. I will attempt to add photos of several examples of the progression of markings in these traps.
The second trap pictured that has the long link chain is also a Blake Lamb & Co double underspring but is an earlier trap and it has the correct chain complete with ring. I compared the photo of the trap with the long link chain with two of my traps from that period and it appears that hogwild's trap is identical to a trap I have that is stamped Pat April 26 1859 RI 1878 in two circles toward the two ends of the pan with No 3 in the center of each circle(RI stands for reissued which signifies that the 1859 patent had expired and was issued again in 1878--this perhaps actually may not have happened but was just an advertising ploy). The trap was likely made in the late 1870s or early 1880s. If the trap was made much later than the early or mid 1880s, it would not still have a long link chain as Blake Lamb & Co began using lock link machine chains well before 1900, especially on smaller traps. The rivets that hold the pan on are at and above center of the pan. An earlier trap in my collection has the rivets equally straddling the centerline of the pan and that trap is stamped just Pat April 26 1859 in arches towards the two ends of the pan with just a 3 stamped above each of those arched markings. This trap is I believe the earliest of the marked Blake Lamb & Co traps as it has a single sided pan post that mounts the pan shank. That post was weak so broke easily and was replaced with the double sided post seen on the later trap. When I have sunlight tomorrow morning I will attempt to get good photos of some early Patent date traps to add to this thread.
After hogwild corrected me that the first several photos are all from a single trap I modified my comments to make them less confusing.
Last edited by cohunt; 04/18/21 11:27 AM.
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Re: Waterbury traps?
[Re: hogwild]
#7246119
04/18/21 12:56 PM
04/18/21 12:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,445 revillo, sd
cohunt
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,445
revillo, sd
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Really hard to put values on these traps. They have fewer collectors than Newhouse traps and thus have lower values as well. I have paid hundreds of dollars each for many of my nicer examples. I have a 2 1/4 size single spring trap with heavy cast jaws that probably would exceed 500 dollars by quite a lot and the extra nice very early 1859 patent traps should be quite valuable as well. The problem with most of the earlier Blake traps is that they are in poor condition from long use. Most were used in water sets and they have weathered over their many years of use and those traps have quite small collector value . Some collectors are satisfied to possess an example of a scarce old trap and do not require a high quality example but they generally will only pay a small price for that example.
Now for your traps. Some time ago I estimated a price in response to a question similar to yours and my estimate set off a firestorm of criticism from folks who thought that I was much to low while several others stated with certainty that there was no way to establish a value at all unless the trap could be examined in more detail and that my price was too high from what they could see in the pics available. No way to win that one. For your traps, because the pans cannot be read, the first two traps have minimal or no collector value. Traps of that era need to be in quite good condition with readable pans to bring even 50.00. Your old trap also has been weathered to a point that the pan cannot be read BUT it clearly is a collectible example. I would value the chain as worth 40.00 as a useable part and would think the entire trap is worth about 50.00 TO A COLLECTOR who wanted it. I am quite sure that others will disagree.
Last edited by cohunt; 04/18/21 01:34 PM.
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Re: Waterbury traps?
[Re: hogwild]
#7251178
04/24/21 08:31 PM
04/24/21 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 305 Ohio
Keith Daniels
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See what happens when I actually login? I'm the one that made Todd the offer and it looks like you all have provided him some good information, but I'm still not sure on the one whether it's a patent or early Waterbury, the trap conditions is a problem on all of them, especially to someone that they are duplicates for, like yours truly. The forged chain is the bright spot of the whole deal, and you can probably market that one trap for more money somewhere, maybe even on here on the trap shed? Look on the bright side, if you hadn't sent me a picture of all the traps for a value idea they'd be in with the Hawkins Co. ones for the same price next Saturday at your sale. If you don't get any good bites on them, and don't want to just hang them on your wall let me know.
Keith Daniels Retired OSTA President as of 4:50 P M 9/12/20
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Re: Waterbury traps?
[Re: Keith Daniels]
#7251199
04/24/21 08:59 PM
04/24/21 08:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,806 Waldo, OH
hogwild
OP
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OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,806
Waldo, OH
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See what happens when I actually login? I'm the one that made Todd the offer and it looks like you all have provided him some good information, but I'm still not sure on the one whether it's a patent or early Waterbury, the trap conditions is a problem on all of them, especially to someone that they are duplicates for, like yours truly. The forged chain is the bright spot of the whole deal, and you can probably market that one trap for more money somewhere, maybe even on here on the trap shed? Look on the bright side, if you hadn't sent me a picture of all the traps for a value idea they'd be in with the Hawkins Co. ones for the same price next Saturday at your sale. If you don't get any good bites on them, and don't want to just hang them on your wall let me know. I have saved the one with forged chain just for you.
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