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debate jaw laminations #652551
03/27/08 12:04 AM
03/27/08 12:04 AM
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nebraska
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playin4funami Offline OP
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playin4funami  Offline OP
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Okay I understand why live market guys want laminated jaws to lessen damage, but I want to hear from fur trappers,use?/don't use?, pro's and cons, why you feel they are nessasary or not?

I don't use jaw laminations because I feel it stops the trap from getting as solid a bite on the critter as it could. Being that the springs on the trap are the same, a trap will have half the pounds per square inch holding power as one with a jaw that is half as thick.
An extreme example of what i'm talking about would be take a peice of 1"x12" board and lay the thing flat on your hand and put 50 pounds on it, then stand it on edge and apply the weight.


Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: playin4funami] #652602
03/27/08 12:37 AM
03/27/08 12:37 AM

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it is really gonna boil down to what you like. i do like laminations and use them on most if not all of my K-9 and cat traps. some of these traps are offsets and some are not. i do think if a person laminates traps there is a strong possibility you will end up four coiling them. that little bit of weight on the end of the jaw slows them down to where it was noticeable to me.

not necessary, i am just getting a touch softer in my years. i think they are a bit easier on the animal.

just my .02 worth.

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: ] #652612
03/27/08 12:42 AM
03/27/08 12:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,838
Wyoming
huntinglonewolf Offline
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huntinglonewolf  Offline
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Wyoming
I laminate all my traps so it gives them more jaw spread basicly and is easier on the animals on a 3 day check.


"Oh make no mistake, it’s not revenge I'm after—It’s a reckoning":

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: huntinglonewolf] #652631
03/27/08 12:57 AM
03/27/08 12:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,497
MD 36
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lrjakes Offline
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this is an interesting question as some claims it increases holding ability, but i dont see how. (other than some coons maybe.)

and adding lams, slows down trap speed and hinders trap coming through covering.


Last edited by lrjakes; 03/27/08 12:59 AM.
Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: lrjakes] #652634
03/27/08 01:01 AM
03/27/08 01:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,838
Wyoming
huntinglonewolf Offline
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Wyoming
Not when you 4 coil them. I do belive that it increases holding ability as you have a wider surface.


"Oh make no mistake, it’s not revenge I'm after—It’s a reckoning":

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: huntinglonewolf] #652648
03/27/08 01:11 AM
03/27/08 01:11 AM

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 Originally Posted By: huntinglonewolf
Not when you 4 coil them. I do belive that it increases holding ability as you have a wider surface.


He said the same spring laminated vs. not.

See his 1x12 comment. No way the wider surface helps hold the foot.

Another note: Center swiveling the traps positions the foot in the top center of the trap as well, which is where it is easiest to pull out.

Its all for the comfort of the animal, and strenghtening the trap so it will hold up to what the critters throw at it. Laminations and center swiveling do nothing to help the traps holding power. IMO!

~ADC~

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: ] #652653
03/27/08 01:16 AM
03/27/08 01:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,770
N.W. Iowa
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Tactical.20 Offline
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N.W. Iowa
Mine have been laminated for 15 years or more. I wouldn't want to use one with out it. I prefer 1/4" round rod welded to jaw for the full length of the offset jaw area.T.20

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: lrjakes] #652695
03/27/08 02:13 AM
03/27/08 02:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,332
N.e.WI. 45
DFronek Offline
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DFronek  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: lrjakes


and adding lams, slows down trap speed and hinders trap coming through covering.



Never seems to be a problem for me. Been using strictly laminated traps since around 93. For coyotes I've now gone to 4 coiling them as well. Lams help that occasional toe catch. And there great if your in an area alot of stray animals or just a dog roaming around. I also think they help hold IMO.They also eliminate jaw distortion and flexing while a critter is caught.

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: ] #652699
03/27/08 02:20 AM
03/27/08 02:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,332
N.e.WI. 45
DFronek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ADC
 Originally Posted By: huntinglonewolf
Not when you 4 coil them. I do belive that it increases holding ability as you have a wider surface.



Another note: Center swiveling the traps positions the foot in the top center of the trap as well, which is where it is easiest to pull out.

Its all for the comfort of the animal, and strenghtening the trap so it will hold up to what the critters throw at it. Laminations and center swiveling do nothing to help the traps holding power. IMO!

~ADC~


I disagree. Center swiveling allows a much more easier swiveling action with NO binding compared to the corner swiveling thats standard on most traps. The wider jaw surface is not smooth it is more like a washboaed and has grooves that conform into the foot which I believe helps hold and prevents slipping. I have yet to see where a center swiveled trap has lost a full pad catch, Toes yes, but you get that with any trap.But I've held more toe catches with laminated traps.

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: ] #652731
03/27/08 04:13 AM
03/27/08 04:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,914
Oregon
TasteLikeChicken Offline
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It's easier on the animal. They hold better. Most important...they are easier on MY FINGERS....LOL.


Sack Punch Beaver Lure
http://www.tlclures.co.nr/
Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: ] #653035
03/27/08 10:42 AM
03/27/08 10:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,902
nebraska
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playin4funami Offline OP
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playin4funami  Offline OP
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nebraska
anybody else?


Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: ] #653187
03/27/08 12:41 PM
03/27/08 12:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225
Midland, MI.
Seldom Offline
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Seldom  Offline
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Midland, MI.
 Originally Posted By: TexA
Center Swiveling, laminating the jaws, baseplating with center swiveling added swivels and either larger springs or 4-coiling are all IMPROVEMENTS in the performance of just about any "factory" trap.

BMPs have proven that
and it's more than just one mans' opinion!

99% of mine have had the full treatment
and I wouldn't change a thing \:\) \:\) \:\)


I agree completely! ;\)


"A few want to know WHY, the majority appear to be satisfied just knowing HOW!"
Youtube Channel- SeldomFales
Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: DFronek] #653230
03/27/08 01:07 PM
03/27/08 01:07 PM

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 Originally Posted By: Blak coyote
 Originally Posted By: ADC
 Originally Posted By: huntinglonewolf
Not when you 4 coil them. I do belive that it increases holding ability as you have a wider surface.



Another note: Center swiveling the traps positions the foot in the top center of the trap as well, which is where it is easiest to pull out.

Its all for the comfort of the animal, and strenghtening the trap so it will hold up to what the critters throw at it. Laminations and center swiveling do nothing to help the traps holding power. IMO!

~ADC~


I disagree. Center swiveling allows a much more easier swiveling action with NO binding compared to the corner swiveling thats standard on most traps. The wider jaw surface is not smooth it is more like a washboaed and has grooves that conform into the foot which I believe helps hold and prevents slipping. I have yet to see where a center swiveled trap has lost a full pad catch, Toes yes, but you get that with any trap.But I've held more toe catches with laminated traps.


I never said they are better if left swiveled off the corner but dead center it where it is easiest to pull out.

BMP's are political bologna that sooths the minds of AR's and people on the fence, like cable restraints. Not that I'm saying that's bad but that their recommendations are taking into consideration the whole picture, animal comfort and all, not just the traps sheer ability to hold the catch, which is what this question pertained to.

I believe a trap left stock if it doesn't pull apart will hold critters just as well as a fully modified one. There really is no in between. Once you start adding mods you'll need to go all the way. Laminations require stronger springs, stronger springs, leads to base plating, base plating most often leads to center swiveling... all stuff most non-professional trappers will never need or even notice a different in catch holding ability.

(note the avatar)
~ADC~

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: ] #653231
03/27/08 01:07 PM
03/27/08 01:07 PM

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 Originally Posted By: Judd Brooks
It is easier on the animal. It gives me peace of mind. It is good PR. That is reason enough for me.


That is the correct answer IMO. \:\)

~ADC~

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: ] #653494
03/27/08 03:55 PM
03/27/08 03:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,902
nebraska
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playin4funami Offline OP
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nebraska
All good points everyone. I think alot of new trappers get on here and soon believe that a stock trap will not catch animals without full modification. They are nice but not a must have for every situation. I'm not saying go out and use junk with weak springs,etc. But not every trap needs modifications before it can be used.


Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: playin4funami] #653502
03/27/08 04:01 PM
03/27/08 04:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,902
nebraska
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playin4funami Offline OP
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ADC, I believe you are correct, that once the mod's start you'll end up having to go all the way. Sometimes it seems like it would be cheaper to just completly build my own trap instead of buying one then completly modifying/rebuilding it to what it ends up being.


Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: playin4funami] #653529
03/27/08 04:14 PM
03/27/08 04:14 PM
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Northern Illinois
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MChewk Offline
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Northern Illinois
With a smirk on my face and an evil glint in my eye I say..."So Jayme would you say trappers using sharp, thin jawed traps that are looking to trap wild canines should proceed into the field or modify?" LOL

Come on now! Modifications work! Keep in mind why they originated...poorly designed equipment at the time (late 1970's early '80s)....AND COYOTES. They are improvements for equipment that trappers found could not hold up to the abuse of hard fighting animals. AND after using them.. the benefits to other animals were discovered also.

No sarcasm meant just my view point.

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: MChewk] #653569
03/27/08 04:32 PM
03/27/08 04:32 PM
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nebraska
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playin4funami Offline OP
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nebraska
MChewk, I understand tounge in cheek,but I have rarely ever seen foot damage with a proper sized trap and a non-laminated jaw,we also have 24 hr trap checks here, so maybe if left longer in the trap it would cause problems. I have seen some damage when an incidental gets in a trap not meant for them, example: muskrat in a beaver foothold. Otherwise where do you get these thin jawed sharp jaws?I've never seen them!Unless of coarse your sharpening yours? \:\)


Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: playin4funami] #653581
03/27/08 04:41 PM
03/27/08 04:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,066
Eastern NC
DanielE Offline
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Another benefit of the lams is the stiffening of the jaws. In my book...that's a big advantage that's often overlooked.

Re: debate jaw laminations [Re: playin4funami] #653644
03/27/08 05:18 PM
03/27/08 05:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,332
N.e.WI. 45
DFronek Offline
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DFronek  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: playin4funami
MChewk, I understand tounge in cheek,but I have rarely ever seen foot damage with a proper sized trap and a non-laminated jaw,we also have 24 hr trap checks here, so maybe if left longer in the trap it would cause problems. I have seen some damage when an incidental gets in a trap not meant for them, example: muskrat in a beaver foothold. Otherwise where do you get these thin jawed sharp jaws?I've never seen them!Unless of coarse your sharpening yours? \:\)


Any trap with stamped out jaws are considered sharp IMO, victors were the worst and blake and lambs 1.5's and Dukes at a time but they have gotten better. When set for the intended animal on a 24 hour check you don't see alot of damage,but that's not always the case nor the intended animal such as using a #3 for coyotes but you catch a coon or fox.And if you go a smaller trap say a 1.75 your setting yourself up eventually for failure. Trappers like O'Gorman and Pederson already had this figured out along time ago that mods work. They probably forgot more than most of us will ever know.

Heres one of my favorite pics a 2 toed hind foot catch on a coyote in a #3 Montana with outside lams of 1/4". The angle doesn't show the lams.Caught Dead Center on a center swiveled trap.Coyotes have alot more power to power out of a trap when hind foot caught.But the Center swiveling and lams held just fine. Alot of times from my past experiences with unmodified traps I could catch them that way too, just minus the coyote or fox.

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