A friend of mine has a grandson in college. He's getting good grades but like many kids his age he is not sure what he wants to do

after graduation. My friend asked me if there were any companies or individuals in our business that offered internships. I thought

that was a really good question and I can't remember if it was ever discussed on T-man. I think it was, but I can't remember much

about what was said. With all the different things we now do besides caging animals, I can certainly understand why someone would

want to see all the many different aspects of ADC work. Any of you guys use interns or thought about it?

My friend asked the same question recently. I used an intern once before...and would again.

Practically speaking, what is the difference between an entry level position and an internship?

Good question Bob. Dave, how does this whole thing work? What is expected of the intern and what's expected of us? Anyone can answer

this question. ( Oh, unless your name is Bill Clinton )

The definitio, I just read was a student or trainee who works, sometimes without pay, at a trade or operation to gain skills.

An intern is specifically doing it to gain New skills, and may not be hired for a permanent position. They often agree to work for free or cheap for a short term in exchange certain skills will. E taught that may not be taught directly to an average entry level person.

Example, you may usually just have New guys do skunks and moles, but the intern is going to be with you for three months and expects to be shown a little of everything.

We are considering an intern program, for two reasons, one is to add some seasonal labor during summer. The other is that I had many opportunities during internships in college that
I'm very grateful for, they taught me not only what I wanted to do in this field, but certainly what I didn't want to do.

In the wildlife field I did numerous unpaid internships in my first two years of community college. I drove 1.5 hours to intern with the forest service in NY (learned I didn't want to work for them), did a ride along internship 50 hours basically with a game warden again in upstate within my county (what I was planning to do when I entered school). During that two year program you take a course called "practicum" which is basically mostly non paid experiential work. They pushed the ethics of gaining experience and it could be gained in a myriad of ways.

I landscaped my way through college as an irrigation and hardscape foreman so I didn't need the money the way many of my fellow students did who were strictly students.

When I transferred to Utah State I met my wife on a summer internship where more than 1500 people applied, the pay was a $300.00 stipend once a month and an old ranch quarters to sleep in.

If you are talking about wildlife program students, those seeking degrees in wildlife management, wildlife biology, etc... you would find there are some who are seeking paid gigs, while others would take pay but are really seeking to learn what they want to "be when they grow up" so to speak.

These days wildlife programs are seeking more and more applicable ways to train their students, to educate them, to teach them what skills will get them employment.

I know the discussion on this can devolve into the whole employee quits and starts a shop right under your nose but it seems most have experienced that at one time or another, with interns like any other that could happen, but I would say many "kids" are looking for experience and I think if you had the opportunity to setup a program with a wildlife program in your state university or other tech school, you might find value, may even add a long term employee in the end and may have assistance in gathering applicants that the dept. head would put forward and weed out prior to inviting you to select for your needs.

By the way, I'm not saying just wildlife programs would be suitable, however I'm not sure how many students from other degree programs are out there seeking seasonal work with wildlife control companies.....

Anyway, two good friends one an old mentor from my first school and the second a former colleague turned professor both are seeking to educate their students on the opportunities in this field (private industry), that means there are more out there doing the same, so if you are thinking about it could be a good place to start...

If I sat and thought about it, I did all kinds of things for free, many for dirt cheap and I wouldn't trade the experiences and education for the world...

I tried it and the guy went around handing out his business cards to my contacts. Never again.

I'm sure what happened to Big Bear is on everyone's mind. I'm sure our company would be more apt to use an intern from out of state

than someone that could become a competitor very easily.

Wink, that is what I was going to say, if you have a college intern come from elsewhere (yes lodging may be an issue) you remove the vast majority of this potential issue.

I would also be looking at what level of college are they in terms of year. Freshman and Sophomore years of a 4 year degree aren't generally going to be as mobile and looking as those in the senior year that are looking at their next move....

Can't remove all risk, but this would indeed be worth some thought should folks pursue it.

I paid an intern for their service....and they got credit to be used toward school credits. My case was a graduate student...and it was for their final project.

But this can happen with a regular paid employee. Expansion takes risk.

But this can happen with a regular paid employee. Expansion takes risk.

Have them sign a non compete. And use them for pesticides. An apprentice can be unlicensed and work under a commercial applicator. The commercial applicator doesn't have to be there, and the apprentice can't buy his own product. Wildlife is a bit trickier as they can set traps, but not move a live animal off the property here. They'd be good for attic tearouts. Or even 2 man teams.

Not in michigan...

Nocompetes aren't legal in California. I don't think they should be either. Every skill has to be learned somewhere. You would never make a someone who you are promoting to cook sign one,or a land scaper,or gas station manager, or an apprentice carpenter or . . . .

While I am still trying to decipher exactly what it was that you said; I think non-competes are an excellent idea and we make all of

our employees sign them. This does not prevent anyone from going into business for themselves. They just have to do it away from your

area of business. If you think it's fair for you to train someone to excel in this business and then steal your customers by setting

up shop next door and undercutting your prices, you are a nicer, kinder, man than I.

I don't think it's right, but we live in a free market don't we. What if you learn from someone who is providing poor service and not providing value to the customers you have come to know. Should you not be allowed to go into business for yourself?

When I said, not in michigan.....I was talking about the pesticide certification. You can't work under someone else (alone) unless you pass the exam.

Non-competes are a great idea. However, as an employer, you are free not to require one. Also, a potential employee doesn't have to sign it. I don't think McDonald's requires one, go work there. That is how a free market works.

Okay, I just said in the previous post that a non-compete does not keep you from going into business for yourself. Someone who is

providing poor service and poor value would have no need to hire extra help, so that point is moot. I think California's law must

keep a bunch of people from getting hired. Not a very free market in my opinion.

Here is a link to all states non-compete. Did not see where you could protect a business area in miles, but this is a condensed version, maybe its in the main text.
http://www.beckreedriden.com/wp-content/...rt-20130814.pdf

Kurt Temple

Then what does it prevent?

It prevents your employee from starting a competing business anywhere in that state for x number of years. But if his business is in

an area of the state that you don't care about, you just let it slide.

I think they just stop you from recruiting another companies customers for a period of time here.

Keep thinking.

Non-competes must be realistic.

Generally, this means that you are able to protect propitiatory information, customer lists, a realistic service area (usually 1 or 2 hours from office) and they tend to be "good" for a short time frame. More importantly, if you do a non-compete you must be willing to invest the money to enforce it (provided your state recognizes them).

As a real world example, Ohio recognizes non-competes, but even with providing statewide services I had to list each specific service I offered, a general description for any "proprietary" skills and/equipment I used, and was limited to a maximum service area for general wildlife removal to 1 hour from the registered office location and bat exclusion work to 2 hours for a maximum of 2 years. Then anytime I found a violation, I would need to pursue it so I didn't create a "favoritism" issue with one former employee saying "He allowed this other guy to do it, so why couldn't I".

In short, unless you have a very specific type of equipment you have made or manufacture yourself or have some sort of training/service method that cannot be found in any book, video, or Internet blog/message board you'll be limited with preventing someone from competing with you if they really want to. On the flip side, a decent non-compete does make it easier to prevent an employee from leaving you to work at a competitors company. So for that reason, I feel they are well worth it.

I don't think a no compete should work state wide. For me a competitor could be 10 hours away and be in the state. Would you say that its fair for a me hanoc to sign a no compete?

It might be different for you guys in states where there is a wco every block. I worried when I was first hiri,g, but it's the same in every industry and I think it's up to us to out compete. And I say that as someone in a service area that really couldn't support another.

As someone who is in a service area that could probably not support another company, you need non-compete protection more than most

of us. The best thing about a non-compete clause is that it makes your employees think twice about taking advantage of you. Most

intelligent people feel that fighting a non-compete clause is starting off on the wrong foot.

Curious, have any of you defended your non-competes in court and won?

It seems none of what we do falls under trade secrets, proprietary process. If then the sole reason is stopping competition, it would seem federal antitrust laws would come into play, That's why I wondered if you had won on the stopping competition in court.
Kurt Temple

That's the beauty of this thing Kurt. We have the big guys that have expensive lawyers to set the precedents. Rarely do people

intentionally challenge the clause. This isn't about stopping the competition; it's about you training your competition. I'm guessing

there are guys on here who waited out the proper time period and then set up their own businesses. And they are probably quite

successful, because guys who play by the rules usually are, in this business.

If you hire someone who is already trained to industry standards, does this apply?

Kurt Temple

Are there financial retributions or just a "cease and desist"?

I suspect a non compete would be a deterent but not worth enforcing in all practicality.

Eric brings up a good point about the "selective enforcement" thing. I run into the same type of thing with my rental homes.

Either way, sufficiently interested enough that I called my attorney and asked for a referral for a good employment attorney. Got an appointment set for Dec 1. I suspect most info will be state specific but will share anything worth sharing if the thread is still around.

Kurt, if they sign the non-compete agreement they have to wait it out as well. Bob, that selective enforcement thing is what I was

referring to in my post about an employee starting a business in an area that you don't care about. This usually works out to the

benefit of both, rather than a losing proposition for you.