Has anyone used raccoon fluid for squirrels. I would think a mama squirrel would be scared of,it more than coons. It would make more sense than lion per in an attic. I might try it this year. Mostly because 4 of 5 squirrel in attic calls resulted in me,going I, the attic on day one and the squirrels never returning.

If the substance repels....is considered a pesticide. So, no....

Raccoon eviction fluid would certainly not work here. They both inhabit the same backyards, trees, attics, etc. Heck, eviction fluid

only works with females with young during the whelping season. If you have 4 or 5 squirrels in an attic, the holes should be quite

visible. Set a half a dozen cages in likely areas on the outside and catch them all. Then close the holes.

So when someone applies cayenne powder outside to deter skunks you wood consider that as them trying to apply a pesticide?

Not sayin it's effective, it wasn't, so she called me, but she tried

DaveK would be referring to an operator (commercially) applying anything falls into a world that someone can ding you for..... If not specifically labeled for
that purpose.

Not unlike the homeowner who can buy and spray wasp spray at their home, however the wildlife guy who isn't licensed to apply pesticides would be fined or dinged for buying the same can and showing up and spraying it....

I've seen people dinged for using diatomaceous earth out here when you can walk into a garden center and buy it all you like, apply it without a license and the state is going to cite you if they find out...

May seem silly but where the rubber meets the road is the legalities.

Of course David and Justin are correct; this certainly can happen. In our state, if it continued to happen, the ticketing officer

would be looking at a transfer or a new job. We do not have enough money to hire people to do what Justin so aptly described as "silly'.

Exactly, HD!

Now, if the manufacturer would apply for a pesticide label...or get an exemption....we would be good.

Winkie....read NWCOA code of ethics.

That makes sense. I don't know why I thought of eviction fluid differently. I have told customers I won't put out bat boxes, ant traps, or spray anything, I just didn't think of eviction fluid the same.

Dave, try as I may, the closest thing I could find was Conditions of Membership, where they stated that you cannot represent yourself

as a voice of NWCOA unless approved by the governing body. Is that what you were referring to?

Paul I will pull up the code of ethics when I'm at computer. Need to print them anyway. But I believe he is referring to a section about following all state laws. So disagreeing with and trying to change a law would be ok, by actively breaking it would not

Exactly. I would venture a guess that the liability insurance that member have access is such a great rate (in part) is due to being a lower risk base of operators. Something might be said that following the laws can reduce your risk.......and insurance rate!

Sounds logical, right?

So completely by accident, because we all have pest licenses, we did not break a law that we are not sure even exists? Now I really

understand what Justin meant by SILLY!

I'm not sure that you do understand...

I believe the requirement is for anyone applying a registered pesticide (i.e., one with an EPA #) for pay.

That is my understanding too.
DaveK- Do you have a verifiable Citation (link) that anyone has ever been cited for spraying water or animal urine in an attic to act as a repellant? It may be out there, however, I can’t find it.

The product is not registered, but should be in my opinion. If you go through FIFRA and possible exemptions, it should be registered. There is a document stating various predator urines are not exempt. I remember posting a link on trapper man last year.

I am not aware of any citations. If the manufacturer could register or produce a document from the EPA stating it was exempt...then it would help.

Here is the document on predator urine...and it is registered.
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/reg_actions/registration/decision_PC-029008_05-Feb-09.pdf

And here is a Urine product that is a registered pesticide:
http://www.shake-away.com/Rabbits.php?page=Rabbits

Since raccoon urine is not listed in either example sighted, then an opinion that it should be does not matter. Until its listed as a pesticide or repellent, the debate is a waste of time. I did mention it to my better half and she responded ( so there is already a coon with babies in the attic leaving urine and crap and you want to add more urine smell on the chance she might move? Not! ) I think most customers would feel the same.
Kurt Temple

I always thought that the reason the NWCOA insurance was more reasonable was because NWCOA members were more careful not to drop

cages off the roof and onto the customer's Lamborghini.

Yeah right, Kurt.

It applies due to the very broad definition of pesticide in FIFRA. The example demonstrates that it would apply to any type of urine used to repel.

Putting eviction fluid in an attic would certainly be a waste of time and product. Applying it to a tennis ball or something similar

and letting it down a dead end flue on a rope will usually have the desired effects. ( Warning: Always make sure you have your pest

control license in your pocket. You can never tell when someone from the Bureau of Urine Enforcement will be crawling up that ladder

after you )

As a licensed operator, it's up to you to ensure you are using a legal product. This is why you need to pressure manufacturer to register it.

The reason I said the debate here does not matter is each operator would need to check with his state regulator/ DNR that his license or permit is under to see what is acceptable, if they care. Don't care is a statement that you are willing to take the hit to yourself and your business if it backfires on you. I have no problem with that, since urine is used in trapping all the time I don't feel they would care, adding the small amount to an attic when its already there, can't see the problem.
I don't use it, but have no problem with others doing so. If I did I would not say so, there is an old farmers saying when dealing with stock killing animals SSS Shoot- shovel- shut-up I think that applies with some other topics as well that we have debated on this forum before.
Kurt Temple

I hear you. Get this....FIFRA is a federal law....so the states have to at least be as stringent. They can be more stringent (not less).

Also, you can use urine as a lure to attract critters. The law doesn't applyin this case!

You are so right Kurt! You do not want to be a beef cattle munching wolf and think you are protected by Federal law in northern

Wisconsin. The triple S is used a lot. And nobody cares. ( Okay, a half a dozen AR lunatics in Milwaukee who have never seen a wolf

in the wild, would probably cry their eyes out ) The facts, as I've been told, is not only do the Feds have to reimburse you for your

wolf killed steer, they also have to try and find the culprit and put it down. If you've already shot it, you are saving taxpayer's

dollars. I"m sure Justin will have words on this subject if he reads this.

In other words, if you remove the word "Eviction" and replace it so it reads " Happy Happy Raccoon lure" Or "Male raccoon Gland lure"... then your good too go....This subject has been around the block on Face Book...seemed like ALMOST everyone agreed to continue using Eviction Fluid or paste intended to get rid of coons as long as it was being sold for that purpose...

You could call it what you like....it is how it is used that determines if the law applies.

I really can't believe you guys don't understand. How does your state determine qualifications?

Dave..I didn't reply to go around the block with you at all...But, the thing is who said we didn't understand..its just a pretty lame law and hard to swallow,,,since this stuff has been around before you and I

Indeed...thanks.

Thank you

The thing is....flying under the radar is not a solution. This type of stuff will pile up. You have to force change. Change the law...change your methods...do something....if it matters to you.

(caution off topic, way off topic) - Wink, the last I knew (not really my ball of wax) the only one who ever paid for dead cattle or sheep for wolf related reintroduction or protection under anything was defenders. They were the ones at least who did so in the rocky mountain region.

Lots of things kill livestock, if we are honest, I ran sheep on a project with my better half for 2 summers and saw as many dead by their own 4 hoofs and small domesticated brains as were killed by the coyote packs we were studying (and we had to necropsy them to see cause of death, so no calling it dead by predator when really just plain died....)

I could see USFWS paying in certain recovery areas without much stretch, but only ones I remember ever doing so were that group and they required verification by folks (ie, we aren't paying for the group of cattle that ate the toxic weed and died en masse in your pasture).

(now back to the thread - though it would seem it has run its course mostly....)

Justin, at my age, I have to double check everything I say and write. Go to Livestock Depredation Payments in Wisconsin. Since 1985

we have paid houndsmen, deer ranchers, and livestock growers about $1,500,000.00. Did they have it coming? Probably not even half,

but now you know why I made the comment about Shoot, Shovel, and Shut-up. I bet you could buy a lot of wolves for a million and a

half.

Honestly ..I used the stuff like, only 2 or 3 times in over ten years..it did work well though....

WOW it just occurred to me that every predator man in the country that is charging for a job or just helping a friend is breaking laws and nwcoa code by applying fox and coyote urine. Wait Fur trappers would also fall into this as they get paid for the pelts so they too are commercial.

Ron.....seriously? They are not. This is because it is used as a lure...rather than a repellant.

Hey Jonesie, you're just going to have to hold it until you get home. People are definitely a repellant.

I do see where the problem is. There was a guy around here operating without a pc license, thought he was ok because he was doing "green" pc. Didn't fly.

But, there was a guy in the bay who was giving a seminar to a bunch of people, wardens and local pd was there. He was talking about using mountain lion pee and feces as a deterrent, for his business, they seem ok, but I know that doesn't make it

So did the warden and local cops take him away in handcuffs for using poop and urine without a license? ( Okay, that is a silly

question. If it would have actually happened, it would have made the Internet news big time! )

"No officer, I didn't put the coyote pee down to scare the raccoon, I did it to attract the coyote to eat the raccoon," same thing, different laws

I do see a way for California to make some extra tax dollars from this discussion. "No Peeing in the Woods without a License" signs.

What DaveK is saying Paul is these are federal laws, so Wisconsin is free to benefit,too

you mean I can't pee in the attic's anymore to chase out the squirrels and sow coon with pups? Hey Paul I held it all day bout killed me couldn't get out of the truck and walk up right,was bent over, but I made it home.

Even if us Wisconsinites could read, we still wouldn't believe it.

Jonesie, you're lucky; I'm thinking of getting a catheter.

raccoon male gland lure with secret ingredients {vanish} will move squirrels or prevent them from chewing on log cabins. I don't use it to often for squirrels because I think it works better to trap and eat them. I might work on bird feeders I've never tried. Outside the birthing season it is a good coon lure and doesn't taste to bad on a cracker. That is not against the law unless you feed it to someone who doesn't know what they are eating and they find out about it. If you are part of the raccoons food chain it's hard to hang out when you think a male raccoon is there.
If I'm ever caught doing something I shouldn't I didn't do it. It may have looked like me, and I may have and smell like a raccoon gland but it wasn't me.
Please Dave don't tell me anything. PLEASE!!

If raccoon glands repel animals and the smell of Brooker attracts them, wouldn't they cancel each other out?