Research is one thing but just how many of these predators should be released? And who is responsible for the loss of property that these released animals have caused?

Excellent video! Would you mind if I linked to it?

BTW they are on the move in Hotlanta as well, I have a couple jobs for them this week.

Good post, Mike. I know Stan and of course, everyone knows that Rob Erickson was responsible for the majority of this early study.

It's bad enough that we've never had city coyotes, but how long will it take before we have city wolves? At what point will someone

figure out how to make a trap that will catch as many dollars worth of coyotes/wolves as squirrels? I have personally thrown away

more dollars in coyote jobs than I care to admit. By the way, are you still a Wisconsinite? The last game was sad for Bear's fans.

Yea Paul, I'm still in Wisconsin. And yes, the Bears still suck wind as they always did. I did this shoot because they promised that they would keep it real, and not a walt dizney version of a poor homeless coyotes world. I think they made me look like a rock star! And they also did a pretty good job on the rest of the film.

MChewk, I'm not sure the coyote study is on-going but I do remember how thorough it was. They found out more about urban coyotes than

ever before. I recall in one case something like 90% of the coyote complaints were actually just one very brazen animal. When he

finally got run over, the calls suddenly stopped. Those large tracts of woods in Illinois make for perfect cover.

Paul I just get concerned with the idea that there are coyotes being released... instead of CONTROLLED.

Great video, lots of information to be used. HSUS has taken most of it and is running their direction with it pretty hard. I use some information from it to help me remove coyotes in urban areas.

This is one of the longest running studies (Stan's) ever done on urban coyotes that yielded a wealth of knowledge. Coyotes have
and will continue to live and exploit urban and suburban areas the way skunk and raccoon and opossum do. Studies like this highlight
just how many coyotes can be in an area without but a few causing actual problems.

I've worked with local villages that track their complaints and there when you map them they are generally one or two animals causing problems
while the rest of coyotes area conducting "coyote business" the way they always have.

The general issues we all know are leaving unattended pets outside where they are easy game for any predator. Out here we have as many calls for
hawks and birds of prey taking small dogs and cats as we do for coyotes and I live in a great area for urban and suburban coyotes with river and mountains on both sides of our city.

We have the contingent that believes we should "kill em all" and we have those who believe we should "save them all" the logic lies in the middle and always has. Certain situations will require removal, the bulk do not in the least.

Their long running study is one of the best examples of urban wildlife research ever conducted in the states.

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Mike, I didn't watch the video with audio yet, just skimmed it and recognize Stan's footage, did you splice yours in or was this a joint effort that he collaborated on with you to produce?

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How about a couple of scenarios just to make this fun.... (these are calls I've had for urban coyote in my area)

1) Gentleman calls - "I would like to have a coyote removed from my property."

I respond "Okay, tell me a little bit about what you are dealing with and where you live."

He tells me where he lives which is about 100 yards off the Rio Grande and is an area of suburban farms with alfalfa
and irrigation ditches and expensive horse farms.

I say "So what has the coyote been doing that you've seen that concerns you."

Him "Well, when I go out with my dog I notice it looking over here from the neighbors field which is about 100 yards away."

Myself "Has it ever made any gestures toward you or your dog in terms of moving toward you in any aggressive manner?"

Him "Well, no actually it has never come over while I've been out with my dog and I always go out with my dog."

____ So what would you do? A) Setup to go remove the coyote? B) Other?


*****

Next Case - Female caller - "I'd like you to come catch all of the coyotes in my neighborhood"

(lives in a large HOA again in quality habitat for everything from mountain lion to squirrel)

Myself - "what is going on that your concerned with"

Her - "coyote jumped the fence and killed my one and only dog" (a toy poodle)

Myself - "my sympathy for losing the dog, understand how that must make you feel toward the coyote
in your area, do you plan to get another dog?"

Her - "no but I want those *&%* gone from my neighborhood!"

_____ So what do you do? A) Go set traps and catch em all? B) Other?


Last Case - "I just got out of my vehicle coming in from out of state and as my dog was peeing on a tree (shepherd sized dog)
a coyote tore out and grabbed it by a back leg and then as I ran over it ran away. I'd like to see about having them removed."

Again a few questions are asked, I find out she lives in Oklahoma and only comes over here seasonally so her dog isn't on site
normally and this was their first trip over this year.

A few questions with board members of her HOA I find out that someone from the neighboring HOA has been tossing chicken to
the coyote and her pups which live under the culvert that leads into her property. The other thing I find out is that the whole neighborhood
she lives in pretty much have dogs and walk the landscape daily and no one has had a negative interaction of any kind with small or large
dogs that are there all year.

I needed HOA permission to do anything no matter what and they were having a meeting so I went and gave them a coyote talk (powerpoint etc..)
and asked the room of 40+ residents who has seen coyotes while walking or living here? All hands went up.

Who has had a negative interaction with the coyotes meaning felt threatened or they went after your dog? 2 hands (the one with the out of state dog)
go up. Out of you how many have had positive interactions or neutral, meaning you saw coyotes but nothing bad happened you just passed each other.

All hands including the out of state lady went up.

*****

In the end this if you look at canine behavior was ma coyote who lived under the driveway with young pups (weeks old) seeing a foreign canine for the first time marking its territory and went out and nailed it in the tail (not the neck, important detail) and then turned and left. The dog needed a few stitches but was none the worse for wear, the owner of that dog and the HOA decided they would just use education within their HOA to make sure folks weren't feeding them and when a known den site was identified they would as a community make sure everyone knew its location and if need be to haze it into using another area.

The coyote incidentally moved her pups that day and no other incidents have been reported by them.

*****

Everyone I work with knows that I will remove a coyote lethally when the need is there, however though I am a wildlife management company to me that means I look through and understand all of the facts and biology of the situation along with any politics. I make my decisions based on this, not based on thinking I must get out of the truck and kill something to resolve the problem.

I've had a municipal contract with lots of skunk complaints this year, first year for this type of contract. Nearly all of the complaints stem from harborage or food issues (feral cats especially) that can be remedied and the skunk issues cease.

Many people seem to believe you can kill your way out of any situation, the facts are that if the problem still exists in terms of human provided food or shelter, the issue will always recur.

We all know this. I love wildlife, have fished, hunted and trapped since I was old enough to walk with my grandfather and my dad and friends along the way. I didn't open my company to just let the homeowner dictate the result, my job as a professional is to assure that I'm making the right outcome to satisfy the need.

Too many of our callers believe just seeing an animal constitutes a need for removal or "relocation." We have a society that is largely lacking in knowledge of what is just outside their door, they likely know all about bengal tigers and jaguar and african wildlife, but most know jack about what is right there on their little postage stamp and that I believe is part of our job to educate them.

This doesn't mean you can't step in and lethally remove something, happens every day of course all over the country, just saying it doesn't mean that it is always the best and most needed method to resolve the problem.

Ultimately this is a business and an industry and thus the bottom line for most folks is going to be what is the quickest trip from point A to point $ and I understand that need to feed our families and grow our businesses.

Sorry again Mike, way off topic.... and maybe a rant I've stored up for some time...

Justin

Justin, since coyotes are not native to my area I am solidly of the "kill them all" camp with one major caveat, if it were possible. Being a realist I know that a) it is not possible and b) no one would accept the return of red wolves in their place. It is what it is and like it or not we deal with it.
I try to teach the deal with the problem animals and keep the rest of them at bay.

They weren't "releasing" them from outside areas (not bringing them in)... they were catching those that are already there and tagging them for the study.

I've talked with some folks "inside" DNR, and they don't want to thin them out, as they are providing the only goose and feral cat control in the city. Only a few ever become problematic, and guys like Mike and Rob E are then called in to remove them.

I hear you on the non native perspective David. I think the key is always problem animals and problem people. One way or another things can be resolved and of course that is what makes this career interesting. Lots of dynamics, as well as Ron stated, much of the "support" for urban and suburban coyote is assistance with other problem native or non native wildlife.

I deplore feral cats and the folks who call wanting a coyote removed because it ate their cat or one of the ferals they are feeding get a polite but adamant no.

Coyotes are as a species one of the most visible examples of ability to adapt and overcome we have in our wildlife, I will always have respect for them whether I'm needing to remove one or I'm educating people on living along side this Mesocarnivore.

Big part of my career was spent radio tracking them in national forest and ag land complex in MI. Controversial but awesome animal.

Justin has probably heard this before, but this is for the rest of you. We had absolutely no coyotes prior to about 1968. I saw the

first one in our area ( And was promptly told by all the local farmers to "stay out of taverns!" ) Just about a year later, I caught

the first one in our area, in a fox dirthole. Now Justin and I are friends and I am not disrespecting him one bit, but my feelings

about coyotes couldn't differ more. We were told by the DNR "Canine Experts" that coyotes would be a great thing! They would hold

down the deer population. Baloney; they eat all the road kill, so they don't get their teeth kicked in! And then we were told that

they would kill all the bird eating feral cats. Double baloney; but we are happy to say that we do more feral cat calls than ever.

On the opposite end, these semi-tame coyotes will have there litters in culverts of roads that are used a lot and pity the poor kid

that decides to take her poodle for a (safe) walk along that road. If there was a button to press that would take the coyote

population back to 1967, you can bet I would press it. ( And HSUS would be out a fortune ) Hey, just my opinion.

Paul, you'd have to beat me to the button.

Justin, I deal with your first scenario quite often: "But he's watching me...and my dog!" I establish that the (songdog/fox) is watching from afar and nothing else - no aggressive behavior, stalking, etc. Then I say "Unless it's within season, I can't go after it just 'cuz it's there. Let somebody else get fined or lose his license."

Non native specie?

"An introduced, alien, exotic, non-indigenous, or non-native species, or simply an introduction, is a species living outside its native distributional range, which has arrived there by human activity, either deliberate or accidental."

I'm not aware of the coyotes spread being caused by humans.

Coyotes are present throughout the country and need to be managed. To me, taking the nuisance animals out of the population makes perfect sense. Who gets to say which animals are nuisances? People do. If a home owner says the animal needs to go I usually agree.

I'm very interested in urban and suburban coyotes. They are a great business opportunity.

Very good video Mike. Your rock star quality shines through.

Not in Illinois they don't. We have criteria that must be met before we can trap or control any nuisance wildlife. Not a fan of big government, but sensible management is a good thing. If someone is leaving pet food out at night and they experience a raccoon "problem", our regional biologist will not allow trapping unless the people end all feeding after dusk for 2 weeks. If the problem persists, we can trap. DNR takes the approach that wildlife should not die (can't relocate coons here) due to circumstances created by poor human behavior. Same is true for coyotes. Seeing one in the yard or walking down the alley isn't a "problem" and no action is necessary. Can't be killing everything because of what they "might" do. BTW... the "problem" coyotes CAN be trapped, but specific targeting is required and takes very experienced trappers to do it.

Ever hear of the live market? The first coyotes to make it to Alabama came in the back of a pickup.

Yep and I assume that is true in a lot of other areas too. I was referring to NH.

I do like the way NH views nuisance wildlife. No hoops the jump through. If a person says it's a nuisance, it is.



There's never a reason to be killing "everything" but there is often a reason to kill some things.

In human/animal conflicts, humans should win.

I thought of that after I posted but I think it's more than likely Georgia would have coyotes even if there were no live market.

In Georgia do you have to prove damage before you can trap them?

Correct. You're talking to a guy who kills hundreds of "things" every year..... a couple hundred in commercial wildlife control and hundreds more during fur trapping season. If I somehow came across as an anti-lethal method supporter.... sorry about that!

Any coyote that sees a human and doesn't run has become socialized, and needs to be killed. I hate it when anyone says something cant be done. That's just silly! Maybe we didn't kill ALL the wolves in Wisconsin, but we put one heck of a dent in the population for quite a few decades. I'm not a wolf hater, but I am partial to dead coyotes.

No closed season on coyotes here. No requirement on any species to be ruled a nuisance, save deer, bear and turkey.

Mike,

Coyotes and all other urban wildlife do become "socialized" to basic views of people, dogs, cats, traffic. Not running from these things doesn't mean they are a threat it just means they learned what is and what isn't a threat to them.

I tell people all the time of urban coyotes were scared of seeing a human we wouldn't have any urban coyotes they would be unable to function in these areas.

If any animal who doesn't run in terror was a threat we'd be killing a ton of wildlife with no particular reason for it.

By the very nature of the term urban wildlife they are animal populations who have grown accustomed to the point of living near people and exploiting these rich environments as your video shows.

Nearly every urban coyote call we get from within the city some knucklehead is feeding these animals somewhere within their home range. This is what causes a breach in the distance these animals keep and brings in the possibility of real threats.

Range expansion by coyotes is akin to opossum and others who have moved naturally though I'm sure humans in some cases have exacerbated it like with live market accidental releases. A native North American species like the coyote is not considered invasive like feral hogs, pigeons or nutria, rather a natural movement and expansion of a native.

Like Ron said no problem with lethal removal just believe there shouldn't be people still creating the problem at the core and continued removal for those folks who won't cure their problem causing.

Interesting discussion though.

Wink,

Didn't want to skip over your post, I don't have any issue with folks wishing they could rewind the clock to a certain time biologically speaking.

If I didn't want to hear statements like "I wish we didn't have coyotes" I would have never become a wildlife biologist, it is the nature of the beast
for people to want or not want certain things on their landscape.

While one person may love deer, the next hates them because they eat their roses, while one loves the sound of wolves howling, the next knows that
means dead cattle or elk.

The most important thing I've learned is to always see the other persons view even if you don't support it or believe in it, you should teach yourself to
see with their eyes so you can better debate and understand.

I see this all the time with advocates from both polar extremes, hunting / anti hunting, trapping / anti trapping, the folks on the polar ends are the ones who debate poorly and the ones that result in the most loss for their side in terms of logic and things getting overly emotional.

While I grew up in a consumptive use family on a farm hunting and so forth, I can certainly understand the person who is vegan and can't wrap their minds around my mind set.

I drive through neighborhoods of people every day as most of us do, how many houses on any given block can you get to agree on anything?

Very few... with wildlife it is the same. The rubber meets the road somewhere in the middle and I like to live there myself. Not on the fence, as I'll gladly debate an issue right into the ground as many of you are well aware, but my shop runs on finding solutions that I can believe in and that have a basis in science and sociology as well.

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Back to coyotes, their adaptability allowed them to succeed when wolves and other large carnivores were extirpated and removed by our forefathers. The coyote is truly a survivor as the video talks about, as we settled the country we helped coyotes as much as we tried to kill them off. We removed the other wildlife that killed them or kept them in a balance, thus at this point like it or not we did help them become your back yard canine!

To the points about feral cat eating and deer control and goose, they do all of these things, it is fact, doesn't mean they can overcome the sheer number of these animals being born and entering the population. Scat analysis doesn't lie and in most states you will find hunters killing coyote because they know their fawn numbers are effected. To what level, who knows but it is proven....

I can't! While proper upbringing has taught me to be quiet and respectful of others who are idiots there are just some concepts so at odds with the natural world that it defies any sort of reason. I'm a prima facia kind of dude the world around me kills to eat so I kill to eat. Pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain.

I feel it is our onerous task as first responders to wildlife conflict to educate those we can and neutralize the rest.

Lol, David, I too struggle and it is onerous indeed, but I still do my best to bring it to a positive ending. You can't with everyone, but those folks you know are so out of wack with logic that you can't, are better left to themselves.

One of the best parts of being non govt. these days is that I can and do choose my clients. You want me to do something I don't agree with and won't listen to reason, call the next guy and see if he is more open to your perspective, I'll pass.



A professor at Utah State in the Rangeland Resources Dept. had a great saying.

"If you are breathing, something else is taking a hit."

One of the simplest yet most profound statements and I've used it often in life since then.

Similar to the one mentioned at WCT a few years back.

"How would you like animals to die?"

Most people scratch their heads at these statements or respond, "I don't want them to die" but in reality
we and they are all dying, it is only a question of how and when.

***

Getting way off topic from Mike's thread not that it isn't the S.O.P. lol, but I honestly do enjoy debating folks
in a calm manner about how even growing veggies costs wildlife in terms of death and habitat while it benefits
others. The folks on the extreme end believing they don't kill anything or harm anything are not thinking even
on the most basic level about food and clothing and shelter and how these things are transported, created and
so forth.

Maybe I just like the challenge! I'd say it keeps me young, but the gray hairs starting to appear in my beard would
argue that point!

Justin, another good post! Forget about the animals. Here's my question for everyone: "How would you like to die?" Nothing immoral

please. ( Shucks, half of the guys dropped out already ) Anyway, I know my answer and I will post it after the answers peter out.

A clear thinking person cant blame an animal for accepting all that an urban environment has to offer. It does make a guy feel smart to see the lights come on while explaining to a customer why they have the issue that they do. In extreme cases I've seen coyotes crash through screens to eat the dog or cat inside the home. Animals dont feel the threat when they see people in the city any more. Some people feed them, while others run from them. Modifying habitat works during certain situations, but you cant stop the animals nature to defend its territory during certain times of the year.
Paul, this is kinda morbid but look who is asking rite? I've drowned twice, and I'll explain how it went for me. I was scuba diving for clams in zero visability back in 86-87 outside the back gate of Camp Lejeuine when I could hear my regulator telling me that I have 1-2 breaths left. I was only in 15 feet of water, so I figured a few kicks would have me at the surface. My clam bags were full and heavy, and snapped to shackles which were SEWN to my wetsuite. Due to the heavy current, I also wore about 30 pounds of lead on my belt to keep me from being blown away by the tide. So I could see the surface, but couldnt reach it. First I spent a little time trying to figure a logical way out of the pickle I was in, then I spent about 20 seconds panicking and thrashing around. Then a calm washed over me, and I accepted what was happening. Somehow I woke up on the beach.....with my clams!I dont think drowning is such a bad way to go.

Great answer Mike! I've heard pros and cons on drowning and although drowning sounds pretty good, I'd like a few more.

I've also been lit on fire before,run over, shot, and stabbed, but I liked those much less.

Okay, who let the alcoholic/druggie from Illinois on here? He makes my posts look absolutely brilliant!

Where are the moderators? Someone get the hook.....

A hook? Get a hammer!