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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: BigBob] #436310
11/29/07 08:57 PM
11/29/07 08:57 PM
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Indiana
C.Cherry Offline
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Yet another reason to dislike animal rights activists.


Chris
http://nra.org/


Ephesians 6:12

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: C.Cherry] #436531
11/29/07 10:26 PM
11/29/07 10:26 PM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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According to Scripture the first sin of the Bible falls right in line with Animal Rights Activist(ARA) claims. The Serpent convinced Adam & Eve that they would be like gods knowing the knowledge of good and evil. When they took that apple they were wanting to be gods according to the verse and Eve had no more guilt then Adam as both took in the serpents lie. The ARA are trying to change God's law by inserting their own sense of what they feel God would want. The major point they miss is this. God isn't interested in saving the flesh as He stated all flesh must die. It is the Souls of Men that God wishes to harvest. If God had left us in the Garden we could have eaten from the tree of life. In so doing we would have lived for Eternity in a continuous life of good & evil. To save our Souls God separated man from the Tree of Life and gave us death so that we would be free of sin for eternity according to Scripture.


Genesis 3

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: ] #436834
11/30/07 12:31 AM
11/30/07 12:31 AM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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It works to, because they cloud up the waters so much with making it sound like Jesus was to kind to eat meat. Folks that understand Jewish tradition and Religious laws inclusive of eating rituals would know Jesus ate Passover Lamb for at least thirty years of His life. He showed fishermen apostles where to cast their nets upon His return to His Resurrection meal while he made a fire to cook that fish. One of the reasons I started this thread is because Christians need to know how to counter the lie using Scripture in context to do so.

Last edited by Mira Trapper; 11/30/07 12:32 AM.

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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: pudge] #436848
11/30/07 12:40 AM
11/30/07 12:40 AM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: pudge
I recently read an article from Ken Ham, Creation Institute, concerning God's will for man. He referenced Gen. 1:29-30 supporting his claim that it has always been God's will for man to be vegatarian. I do not agree with his statement, so Mira Trapper, I would love to hear what you have to say.
Thanks



Hello Pudge. God knew His plan and our missteps before we were born. He is the beginning and the end.Animal Rights. It is a very informative read and addresses the claims you offer. God intended for us to eat meat and live an environmentally friendly lifestyle. That is why Adam & Eve were given fur jackets by God and not Pleather.


Once again here is the Gateway Bible Study link to animal rights.

http://www.gospelway.com/religiousgroups/anim...


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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Mira Trapper] #437020
11/30/07 03:04 AM
11/30/07 03:04 AM
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Tsarevna Offline
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Vegans are always pointing out that gorillas are gentle giant vegetarians and apes (us included) are not meant for eating meat.

That's when I point out that chimps frequently eat monkeys, even going so far as to stab them to death with spears and fling them from treetops to their deaths on the ground. There's been reports of chimps snatching human babies from the crib, and consuming them.
Baboons are not vegitarians either, they try to kill flamingos all the time by jumping onto their backs and stabbing them in the neck with their fangs like vampires.

I point out to the people that believe in evolution that I'm just another primate out there to hunt. :P

It's also good to point out that Hitler was a vegetarian, and Jesus was not. So your diet doesn't reveal a **** thing about your ethics.

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Tsarevna] #437103
11/30/07 08:53 AM
11/30/07 08:53 AM
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Funny thing about the other primates. Most are insectivore and quite a few also eat meat and all have societal colonies structured on the boss man being the supreme commander often through violent measures. Many ARA say the chimps are 95% like us but the truth is that we are 100% human while they are 100% monkey despite the gene difference of five percent. If there is a God and I strongly believe there is, then He created us omnivore. If we have evolution roots from the primeval soup we are still omnivore. Case closed in either scenario. Personally I figure it takes more Faith to be an atheist, then have faith in God. The structure of Science, the maths and our universe is to perfect to have fallen into place without a creator. I don't consider it blind Faith to think of His Universe in that light. I also feel very connected to the inner me that I feel to be the Spirit that is God given & will be claimed as A Soul as I leave this earthly flesh.

Last edited by Mira Trapper; 11/30/07 08:54 AM.

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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: pudge] #437220
11/30/07 10:40 AM
11/30/07 10:40 AM
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 Originally Posted By: pudge
I recently read an article from Ken Ham, Creation Institute, concerning God's will for man. He referenced Gen. 1:29-30 supporting his claim that it has always been God's will for man to be vegatarian. I do not agree with his statement, so Mira Trapper, I would love to hear what you have to say.
Thanks

Gen 1:29-30 AMP
29And God said, See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the land and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.
30And to all the animals on the earth and to every bird of the air and to everything that creeps on the ground--to everything in which there is the breath of life--I have given every green plant for food. And it was so.

Genesis 9:1-7 AMP
1AND GOD pronounced a blessing upon Noah and his sons and said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
2And the fear of you and the dread and terror of you shall be upon every beast of the land, every bird of the air, all that creeps upon the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are delivered into your hand.
3Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green vegetables and plants, I give you everything.
4But you shall not eat flesh with the life of it, which is its blood.
5And surely for your lifeblood I will require an accounting; from every beast I will require it; and from man, from every man [who spills another's lifeblood] I will require a reckoning.
6Whoever sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God He made man.
7And you, be fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly on the earth and multiply on it.

Gen 1:29-30 was before the Fall of Man,there is no Biblical record of man using meat for food,and this changed after the Flood(Gen 9:1-7)Verse 3 clearly shows God's will.
The ARA's chose some verses and left out others to "help" their argument and their cause.
Don't buy into it....

Last edited by Bigswamp; 11/30/07 10:42 AM.
Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Bigswamp] #437250
11/30/07 10:59 AM
11/30/07 10:59 AM
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Thi sthread is making me very hungry.
Think I'll cook up some beaver steaks tonight.


Q: What's a Baldknobber?
A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bald_Knobbers
Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Bigswamp] #437254
11/30/07 11:05 AM
11/30/07 11:05 AM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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Also worthy of note is the death of Abel who was favored for offering the fattest and sweetest of his meat to God before he ate his own portion. God loved the love that Abel had for God. However Cain was jealous of that love. Cains stumbling block was Cain offered the rotting seeds of the field left overs to God as an offering.


Genesis 4

2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Mira Trapper] #437373
11/30/07 12:33 PM
11/30/07 12:33 PM
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It's not like me to get involved in a bible conversation, but:

In Leviticus, (chapter 13 if memory serves me), God tells Moses what is to be eaten, and what ain't. There is meat on the menu.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: T-Rex] #437652
11/30/07 03:48 PM
11/30/07 03:48 PM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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If you like you can check out this link to another forum that I posted references to about meat eating and the Bible.

http://www.ethicdiscussion.com/discuss/index.php?showtopic=6372


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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: T-Rex] #437655
11/30/07 03:50 PM
11/30/07 03:50 PM
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Hancock Co., Indiana
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God sent quail to the Israelites for food while they were wandering in the desert and got tired of eating manna.

I don't think it's going to do much good to discuss the bible with Vegans or ARA's, though. They have their agenda and only want to see evidence that supports the confusion of their mind. I doubt they are much interested in finding truth.


What from Christ that soul can sever,
Bound by everlasting bands?
None shall take thee
From the Strength of Israel's hands.

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Kart29] #437686
11/30/07 04:07 PM
11/30/07 04:07 PM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: Kart29
God sent quail to the Israelites for food while they were wandering in the desert and got tired of eating manna.

I don't think it's going to do much good to discuss the bible with Vegans or ARA's, though. They have their agenda and only want to see evidence that supports the confusion of their mind. I doubt they are much interested in finding truth.


However the thing one always needs to remember is that you are not addressing the opponent in a debate such as this. It is the readers you must inform and you can actually use the Vegan's lies to make the Christian readers see how the vegan is trying to dupe them.


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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Mira Trapper] #437728
11/30/07 04:35 PM
11/30/07 04:35 PM
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yote_girl Offline
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When it comes to having a central nervous system, and the ability to feel pain, hunger, and thirst, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. ~Ingrid Newkirk

These people's philosophy is that all animals have the ability to suffer, therefore all animals are equal.

If these people do not eat meat based on what they have read in the Bible, clearly they lack reading comprehension skills.

Animals were put on this earth FOR HUMAN USE. Although it is not ethical to kill an animal for no reason, however if it was killed because it was doing harm and/or is not going to waste, that is what God intended.

It makes no sense for God to put these animals here, only to populate and for everyone to eat lettuce. The Bible talks alot about shepherds and how important figures they are in those times.

In verses 28-30 in Genesis 1 God talks about how man and animals are to exists. In verse 28 God gives to man authority over all that was created on earth. Man is to take care of and use the earth. Man is to have the authority over all that was created. This means that man is to ensure the control and protection of all that God had created.

Then in Genesis 9 there is a change between man and animal. Up until this point in history animals were not used as food. However, God now puts certain animals in the diet of mankind. God also puts fear into the animals, so that they fear mankind. Again animals are used as to fill the needs of men.

God, himself, made coats of skins and clothed Adam and Eve. If the Lord God could choose to clothe Adam and Eve with whatever He desired, but chose animal skins, what right do they have to protest another person’s desire to wear furs and leather products?


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke
Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: yote_girl] #437759
11/30/07 04:56 PM
11/30/07 04:56 PM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
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I can see Ingrid Newkirk would consider you a cancerous blight on the earth Yote_______Girl. Then again she already informed folks that all humanity is a cancerous blight on the planet.


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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Mira Trapper] #437777
11/30/07 05:11 PM
11/30/07 05:11 PM
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yote_girl Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
I can see Ingrid Newkirk would consider you a cancerous blight on the earth Yote_______Girl. Then again she already informed folks that all humanity is a cancerous blight on the planet.


excuse me?


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke
Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: yote_girl] #437831
11/30/07 05:45 PM
11/30/07 05:45 PM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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The fact that you exercise free will and support the killing of animals has put you in the wrong as far as Ingrid Newkirk is concerned. You might have missed this quote by her. I assumed you might have already known about it.




 Quote:
"Humans have grown like a cancer. We're the biggest blight on the face of the earth." (Reader's Digest, June, 1990)


More of the same:::

 Quote:
"I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I don't have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn't be harming anything."
(Washington Post, November 13, 1983)




 Quote:
"Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it."
(Vogue, September, 1989)
 Quote:
"If my father had a heart attack, it would give me no solace at all to know his treatment was first tried on a dog."
(Washington Post, Nov. 13, 1983)



A series of such sourced quotes by ARA can be found here in case you are interested. They have a very spooky agenda and most folks inclusive of the trappers here don't really know how much control the ARA wants over humanity and the animals. The whole exercise seems to be about them assuming the roll of Angelic Nirvana in some narcissistic manner to make themselves appear superior to the rest of humanity at the expense of animals and humans.

Here is a link to such quotes with a rebuttal of warning to those quotes.





http://www.ethicdiscussion.com/discuss/index.php?showtopic=6323


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Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: yote_girl] #437889
11/30/07 06:23 PM
11/30/07 06:23 PM
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AKtrapper26 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: yote_girl
It makes no sense for God to put these animals here, only to populate and for everyone to eat lettuce.


Now that, I like. \:\)


"...if it moves, ground check that joker and tear at it with your pointy teeth. But save all the green stuff for the hippies." --The Possum Man


Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: Mira Trapper] #437917
11/30/07 06:48 PM
11/30/07 06:48 PM
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Tsarevna Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
Funny thing about the other primates. Most are insectivore and quite a few also eat meat and all have societal colonies structured on the boss man being the supreme commander often through violent measures. Many ARA say the chimps are 95% like us but the truth is that we are 100% human while they are 100% monkey despite the gene difference of five percent.


No no no, if we are gonna play their game, you gotta be technically correct. *wink* ;\)

Chimps aren't monkeys. Basically the big "family group" is that of the Primates. Primates include the "great apes," monkeys, and lemurs.

Lemurs have tails, are small, but differ from monkeys.
Monkeys are small creatures that have tails.
Apes are usually larger, lacking tails, like chimps, orangutans, gorillas.

Humans are considered great apes, with a twist: the only living hominids. The rest of the great apes are Pongidae. (Neanderthal was the last living hominid besides us, and he departed 25,000 years ago. But some people think he was just a strange looking person adapted to the cold, and not really another species.)

Anyways the moment you call a chimp a monkey, or a gorilla or orangutan a monkey, people write you off as ignorant and dismiss your argument from that moment on.
Just remember Zira from Return to the Planet of the Apes "I am NOT a monkey!" \:D

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors [Re: AKtrapper26] #437975
11/30/07 07:22 PM
11/30/07 07:22 PM
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yote_girl Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
The fact that you exercise free will and support the killing of animals has put you in the wrong as far as Ingrid Newkirk is concerned. You might have missed this quote by her. I assumed you might have already known about it.



i apologize...i misunderstood the content of your reply...i should not have responded that way...i understand now...thank you

 Originally Posted By: AKtrapper26
 Originally Posted By: yote_girl
It makes no sense for God to put these animals here, only to populate and for everyone to eat lettuce.


Now that, I like. \:\)


lol thanks!


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke
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