Just a question for the Lure Makers out there, do you have a successor lined up? Or will the Business Die with you. I think that’s what happened to Buffalo Creek Lures, it was sad to see them go.

At this time I have no successor.

I do have some of Dave's stuff. I can make his Cherry Red, Grizzly King, Fall Fury, the Hawk series, Cold River Call, Red River Call, Southern Nights, K-9 Elixir, Ultesian, Otter Oil, Certified Mink Seed, Ultesian, Autumn Haze, All Call, Muscaro Musk, etc.

However, I won't put any of it on the market because his daughter doesn't want it to continue.

I always had very good luck with his lures. They were always top quality. It's nice that you respect his families wishes.

I can't imaging any reason why Dave's Daughter would care if the line continued. I'm curious Paul! Ace

Asa, she said that Dave told her some time ago that when he died, Buffalo Creek would die with him. So, that's what she's going by. He didn't have that attitude the last few years that I knew him.

Asa, Do you have anyone lined up? The Lenon's line of lures would be a great loss.

I have always considered purchasing someones line of lures and baits. The selfish attitude of letting the product die with them is just that, selfish. Trapping, the history of trapping, and the traditions of trapping are bigger than any one of us. To take something that has meant so much to you, and not pass it on for generations of trappers to come is about the worst thing a man could do. At the same time, I can also understand the dedication and extreme care that one takes when formulating his passion and the desire for the next generation not to ruin it. This still should not be a final deterrant.

I wouldn't feel comfortable selling or passing on Lenon lures to anyone who wasn't already a lure maker who had pride in their work and at least a basic working knowledge of formulating and ageing lures. I have a feeling that is what Dave meant, that he didn't want to go through training a successor who was just looking for a dollar, not passing it on to someone like Paul that could follow his procedures with care and understanding. The Daughter obviously took Dave's statement literally. Ace

So you do not have a successor Asa?

A.J. asked....So you do not have a successor Asa?

Correct but i'm never leaving this earth, LOL! Ace

If we like a particular lure from a maker, what is the shelf life and should we stock certain lures for the future? Steve

Good post Asa. I would hope most lure makers (or any producer of such a "specialized" product) would agree with this. Too many things anymore are bought up and produced for the almighty buck, with little thought given to the actual product.

The very thought of Asa leaving this earth and we haven't even met.

Hey Ace, I had a litter of young coyotes in the back yard trying to chew the lid off of a 30 gallon barrel catfish oil last night. Didn't have time to get dressed just took out the door naked with a flashlight...somethin' must have scared 'em!

The coyotes attempting to get into the fish oil is a good example Lt Grey in the differences in coyote behavior from region to region. Over my liftime I have had more bear than I can count trying to break into my lure making building, a number of bobcats sitting on the steps examining the building and sniffing around the door cracks, fox circleing the building and making scent posts on the corner blocks, timber wolves looking the building over, fishers and coon trying dig in from underneath BUT never once did I ever see a coyote or coyote tracks in the snow close to the building. I've seen them out 75 yards or so traipsing back and forth, making wide circles way out from the building, standing on their hind legs in the weeds looking the place over from 75 yards, etc. It is just too unnatural and overwhelming in odor for a suspicious coyote in this area I guess. Ace

i would like to set all over your shed ace!....and i would mind carrying your gift if you wouldn't come down and teach me..... but first i have to learn to catch the critters

hmmmmm ... i have the want, will, desire and passion ... so i'll make ya a deal ... how bout a cal ripken jr rookie card and a couple semi rusty #1 long springs??? to sweeten the deal i'll even throw in a couple hava-a-heart cage traps that only need a lil tlc to get'em workin ... let me be your grasshopper lol

so how bout it ???

Asa, i'll offer you the same, but the commute to up your way would be heck

I suppose my business will also die with me for all the stated reasons.I would like to think it would be nice to continue ones heritage and years of hard work. I have pondered the thought often in the last few years as to what I will finally decide to do. There is no interest in my family to carry on the tradition.

It is not any easy task putting on the shoes of a formulator. Some things aren't too difficult to teach but so much more has become instinctual that it would take several seasons of hands on work with someone and emulating after them,then another few years of support when someone actually begins doing it all on their own for the first time.

Time will tell I suppose as to what we all will ultimately do.

There is a older lure maker on here that no longer makes his product. And his stuff was and is TOP OF THE LINE. I have caught hundreds of fox with is lures. I have asked him many times if he was interested in selling his formula's and he always says no. I too think that his lures will be lost. It's a real shame to see someone's life work disappear.

I have one question for the lure-makers.

Where would we be if Sewell Newhouse or Frank Conibear had decided to take the secrets of their life's work to the grave?

Please, do not rob the next generation of trappers of the knowledge you have attained after decades of meticulous work.

"Luke, when gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."

Don't pull a Yoda on us please.

Mike

I think that lure formulators and respective successors are truely missing out if it is a laundry list and how to make it is what is being passed on. Parden me gentlemen, but in the scope of knowledge that can be passed on a list of ingredients and how and when to mix them is of little importance without the knowledge of how to derive at such a list of ingredients in the first place.

If Paul, Asa, or Bob or a dozen others were to offer me their ingredient list and how to make them I would be excited to say the least. But in all fairness that is not what is needed in my opinion to be carried on. What in my opinion would be more valuable would be to learn what has not worked, what ilicits certan responses and why. I guess what I am trying to say is that it would be much more important to learn how to be a formulator then to learn a list of ingredients. Maybe a successor could carry on a certain product for nestalgic purposes, like a pet or favorite one in remembrabce of the teacher so to speak, but move the industry forward with a line developed with the knowledge gained of formulation.

Would I like to know what dropped out of Asa's sandwich that became a secret ingredient of his muskrat lure... sure. Would I like to know what makes Backbreaker different then a long list of beaver lures...sure. Would I like to know what makes Peaches and Cream smell better then grandma's cooking...sure. But we would all be better off if I learned the how to of formulation instead. Because only in that manner can the student carry on once the teacher is no longer available for questions.

It's sad to know that some of the best lures will be lost but I can also understand why. These guys have put their heart and soul into their lures and to pass all that blood, sweat, and tears down to somebody that is just looking for a quick buck or to make a name for themselves and doesn't appreciate the time and knowledge that it took to acheive a great line of lures would probably be enough to make them turn in their graves. I think that it's that same mind set that made those great lures to begin with. If it was me I think that I could only pass it down to family or a true friend that in my heart I would know for a fact that they would carry on the quality and tradition of the lures.

I personally would like to leave my mark on trapping, what else would be a better way that making a lure that everyone would use?

a story a little along the lines of "tradition".

a very well known maker of the catfish bait "Bee-Jay" made his product just a few miles from here for decades. it made him a multi-millionaire. he passed several years ago and one of his "family" took over the business. ran it into the ground and went "belly-up".

another individual bought the business, along with the old mans "recipe" with the deal. well, right off, he changed the packaging label, containter from glass to plastic, and reduced the amount from 16 ounces to 13 ounces. this was in his first months of producing a product that has been successful for over 40 years. IT AIN'T WORKIN'!! already, i've got customers complaining about it. they're wanting the old original glass jars of Bee-Jay, with the original labeling. i tell them that the business changed hands and this is what is available. my sales of this one product has dropped by over 75% in the first year.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, don't fix it!!

the grump.

it would be a shame if these formulas werent passed on and kept being formulated and marketed .... after all thats what all those years to get it just right were for right ?? to make sumthin that will catch the critters !!! this brings up another matter ..... the other day i was talkin to a GREAT trapper from this site .... he is VERY very low key .... but i can tell by talkin to him that this man KNOWS his stuff !!! now i dont expect him to leave this earth anytime soon (same with paul, bob, and asa) but i do think it would be a BIG loss if he did so without AT LEAST writin a book/books, or video/videos to pss on his vast knowledge .... it takes years of DOIN sumthin in order to gain the knowledge these men have ... not to mention how many years that their mentors had spent in gettin things just right !! so if ya read this .... yeah ya know who ya are !!! im still BEGGIN ya to do so .... would hate to see all the info one day lost !!!

It quite sad to think if trapping is still legal or feasible a 30-40 years from now we could no longer have Dobbins or Lenons Lures on the market. How many feel that lure making is a dying tradition?

270Jake, there are new lure makers popping up all the time. As long as there is a demand for lures, there will be luremakers.

This is about a sad post,i reckon i know what i will be stocking up on here in the next few years.

Being that lure making isn't an exact science, making lures with a reasonably close consistency from year to year is the real problem that takes experience, learning to roll with the punches so to speak, like with the different temperature range from season to season as example. I think this is where successors to names like Mast, Dailey and Nelson have failed to satisfy past customers of the originators. The list of ingredients is only half the story in lure making. Its sort of like knowing and practicing all of the important factors in trapping but not having the experience or insight into picking the best set locations. My Dad used to say one has to "think like a coyote" and everyone is not able to come anywhere near to that, never being able to place sets properly while others pick that up right away. I have had students that were overnight successes and other that failed completely for that reason alone. Ace

I say that they deserve to take their secrets with them,you don,t spend a lifetime of working at something just to give it to someone and hope they won't ruin your good name.Even the best intentioned person couldn't make a bait consistantly,exactly,and perfectly the same as the one who made the recipe to start with. A saleable lure has to have consistancy,if you bought a great lure and then bought some more and it was different you wouldn't be happy.
Hopefully we won't lose anybody too soon,but thats up to the man upstairs.
There will be new lure makers that are even now making their mark and the cycle continues.
But I do agree that it will be sad to lose the person behind the lures and their knowledge,support,expertise,friendship.

Very well stated Asa and I certainly agree. There are some constants and teachable basics and fundamentals that notes and practice in application will help you along.However in this business the variables do challenge all of us along the way with respects to consistency and a slight odor/color variation from batch to batch. I think it is almost near impossible to derive at the "exact" same odor result or consistency when using organics and natural occuring products.

Gland consistency and base materials will even vary depending on whether you buy fresh cut or ground glands for example. Some that sell you ground glands can be full of fecal matter from not being cleaned well and not knowing what good glands should smell and look like when ground. If you buy ground glands that are more black in color tint versus a tan/brown color you can rest assured they didnt strip the fecal deposits from the glands. The odor is obvious as well. So to keep things consistent you should buy and clean your own glands and then you know there isnt any filler material or fecal droppings left in that will alter the final resultant odor.

Therefore the odor from this batch of gland lure will vary in color and odor upon completion due to the fecal matter in the mix.There is just so much to teach that to do a close mimic to anothers original formula would take a least a few years of application time to see if it was a good likeness or not.Then of course the animal responses would be the next determining factor.

So from what I'm hearing. It's kinda like Gramma's Chocolate Cake, your wife can have the recipe, but it's never the same. lol.

I once grilled a t-bone to perfection, haven't been able to it since but will still keep trying.

A.J. wrote...So from what I'm hearing. It's kinda like Gramma's Chocolate Cake, your wife can have the recipe, but it's never the same. lol.

Good analogy A. J.! I've been around a long time and I haven't found anyone who could bake pies and make oustanding pie crusts like my mother. Hope my wife Maria doesn't read this, LOL! Ace

You said it Asa. Nothing like mammas cooking and baking. This younger generation hasnt a clue for the most part.

More fun than a barrel o' monkeys!

I have thought of this subject many times. I try to use different brands just in case a lure is not made anymore.

Ogorman said he'd give me his secret recipes.

You mean Dana?

Dana makes them and yea, i guess he did hand it over to her in what 84 or something?

A question for all of you lure makers.

If all of you were given a formula; let's say it is Lenon's Super All Call for Fox. Would each of you be able to have a lure that smelled the same and have the fox react to it the same as Lenon's does?

I think a very few simple "cake mix" lure formulas - YES, to some extent.... but the vast majority - NO.

To answer that question would be a guess at best. If one was given the exact same glands and ingredients and each was told to formulate from those notes I think an experienced lure maker could do a good job.

It might take some modifications or adjustments along the way on the next batch or so on aging or the suggested time of adding a specific ingredient but I believe it could be done to a good likeness and animal response.

When one formulator talks to another he knows what to say and the other knows what to ask typically I would think. This would make the entire process more easily emulated.

Just think of it this way for some of you..its not your typical industry that a brand-name company is willing to give up its market share and open up holes for upstarts to claim.

Get out there and experiment.


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Paul I think many on this site would die if they ran out of Backbreaker and cant replace it. Sniffing is a horrible habit.