It's been one really really bad day I tell ya and then I run into this nasty coon . Cant say I have ever seen a animal act like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4U9E2CEH7c&feature=youtube_gdata_player.

My son goes i will shot it and I'll dig the hole but I'm not touching that cage . The animal was acting lazy sleepy like then just jumped up acting crazy . Not sure if I should hang some warning signs around the area . Should I just let the niegbor association know

Don't know about your area Pesky, but if it were here I would put it to sleep ( no shooting with a rabies suspect ) and take it to our largest humane society. They would send it to the state capitol for testing. As far as I know, rabies can only be transmitted through an open wound, so if there are any lacerations on your hand, gloves are a must.

Crazy is right. Thats freaky.

The DNR will want to know.....call casey.

In the counties I service in NY they wont test it unless someone had been in contact with it directly... So I would put it down and take it to one of the humane societys to have it cremated/incinerated.

My boy took his 12 ga to every single animal on the truck yesterday . Had no idea that animal was sick . Looked over heated or dehydrated at a glacé . It wasnt very hot yesterday . Felt cool to me . Crazy how that coon just jumped up like that . Started trying to rip his own eyes out of his head . Next time I get called to a sick coon laying in a yard I'll be watching for this rage virus jumping up .

If your going to take video with your phone at least hold the phone horizontal.

Sounded like he had a bone stuck in his throat.

Same over here Nic,and then only for rabies, if it comes back negative, they do not look any further as to what it has. I suspect alot of the Raccoons we see, and Skunks that are sick also, have distemper, but have no proof. You just treat them all as if they have active rabies virus.

We haven't gotten the raccoon strain of rabies in MI, yet. But, there would be huge interest...would one be found. Would have been nice to have had it tested. Contact: David Marks, Wildlife Disease Biologist, USDA.

We haven't ever had a raccoon test positive for rabies in Wisconsin either. I was told that they susceptible to both canine and feline rabies.

Thats why I don't catch and release..........

They start acting Ike that more ill be taking the pellet gun to them all as well . Just a lot more easy to let them run off . Would loose a few jobs from it but I wouldn't release things like that .

ponyboy, you don't catch and release EVERYTHING. If an animal is obviously sick, it ends up in the garbage. The only place you would release Pesky's raccoon would be at an Obama rally.

I dig a hole for the sick ones no point in feeding them to the seagull down at the local dump . Might start just popping them all . Picked up a special pellet gun just for the truck . Been about every kinda animal found with rabbies around here . Coyote, grey fox that bit four people till this guy after getting bit went into the garage and grabed his shovel . Skunks . Even had a ground hog that was kinda funny I thought but not funny. Lots of bats but they don't make the news much . Lady had a cat she took in that turn it a rabies case . I think the rabies thing is minor compared to country's like Iraq .

Pesky, this is not a local dump. This is over one square mile of garbage that is maintained very well. After all, they siphon off the gas and sell it back to us in the form of electricity. They welcome dead stuff; they make the most gas!

I give up.

Well there's about ten thousand seagulls flying over are dumps . I'm sure there not just up sunning themselves . There's this ritzy sub to the south of me they biult just southeast of this mountain size dump and when the wind blows northwest holy cow the Oder is bad . They biult this gaint pond right in the middle for the seagulls . They just fly back and forth craping like seagulls do landing crapping on houses and that pond is there roost site as well . There's thousands of birds crapping on 1/2 mil homes . Well 100 k homes now . The garbage comes over from Ontario Canada in trucks that don't get searched .There also planning on building them a new bridge that the mi residence will have to pay for . Like 60 billion . Mostly will run over seeing its got to cross the detriot river . It's a wide deep river with fast water seeing it joins the great lakes . No steel made in the USA anymore so should be good for Canada

Pesky, I sense a little discomfort in your posts about the local government in Michigan. I think it's time you went on You Tube and listened to some of the Pure Michigan ads. These are the funniest take-offs on a state that you have ever seen and heard. The older ones are the best.

Wow that coon is crazy!

Michigan has a lot of great things . Are fresh water fishing is most likely better than all the other states combined . So many lakes and rivers to chose from . Great natural runs of salmon and steelhead . Natural reproduction now . Hunting trapping just comes along with all that great water we have . Are walleye fishing rocks . Inland lakes even get stocked yearly again now . The state goes from riches farm land to the great north woods . We have huge areas of state land and national forest that just blankets the state . Open to hunting trapping camping or what ever else your in to . Commercial forest lands are open to the public . Are fishing hunting and specily trapping laws are very liberal compared to other states as well . I love this state you bet . No better place if you like the outdoors that's forsure . Do we need garbage shipped in from Canada and a new bridge to bring it no way . Should we be having un checked garbage trucks rolling into this country in this day and age no way . Will this state rock again in its industry might sure it will . This water is the key to shipping around the world . People in this state are workers they just need the work . There are still good things going here like mining . Copper , iron , silver, peat moss is mined like no other state . Farming has really turned on . Are farmers are still getting a crop this year and I would expect that to sell at top dollar for the ones that didn't sell it last year . Are smaller manufacturing company's that export are doing really well right now . Then the tech, robotic stuff leads the world in this state .Michigan is a very powerful state because of its work force and natural resources . This state will be the state to lead this country out but it surly hasn't happened yet and won't till they get the fuel price down bottom line . Or we could just switch are cars to natural gas . USA has the largest reserve of fuel right at are feet that burns clean . This whole solar ,wind thing is cool and can be used but it's just a front to rap you of every thing you own . Natural gas could send them problem country back to the stone age . Remove there value and there's no reason there are problem again . I hope everybody plans to vote

looks like was just forced to sit through an obama rally already!

michael

Are the rest of you as surprised as I am? When Pesky is watching television and skinning at the same time in his living room, the TV set is obviously turned to Fox News. Pesky does know a thing or two about how this nation operates. Good for you, Pesky!

I don't skin animals in my living room Paul not sure where your getting that . I guess your upset you haven't caught a raging coon or something . Maybe bump up the geritol and go outside and set some traps . Summers ending soon get some sun

Paul, I don't like educated raccoons. I also believe it is good for the overall health of the raccoon and skunk populations to put the deep sleep on all nusiance raccoon and skunks that I catch. Therefore maintaining a healthy carrying capacity for wildlife. Dumping nusiance animals off into an unfamiliar area doesn't seem that humane to me. Kinda like dropping someone from New York City off into the middle of Yellowstone National Forest. The survival rate is actually quite low according to some studies. I do think that it is much easier to release the animal somewhere else. But, I have to wonder is it the best and most professional way? I do lose a few jobs each year from being honest about the final disposition of captured wildlife. I also don't believe a customer who is calling me for help and advice should dictate to me how the job is to be handled.

Ponyboy - My business model and wildlife ethics don't have me relocating for many of the same reasons you list. I just wanted to support your viewpoint as it isn't one shared often. Recently I had a great discussion with a wildlife educator here in NM who shares that sentiment that we are allowing people to believe that the best comes from relocation of the problem. Rather than facing any actual truths we keep dumping animals in parks, greenspaces and other open areas without any sort of backing whatsoever.

In my state raccoon relocation is currently mandatory, so I only take exclusion work where it can be done without needing to trap. I have passed up jobs as you mention for the same reason. Even our state folks are starting to question this policy as again, there isn't any science behind taking them elsewhere and where they end up or how they end up and how quickly. The scant reports out of the midwest from years back aren't enough basis frankly to say either way, but the piles of relocation, translocation and reintroduction science say that they likely suffer and die or try to migrate back and die, either way....dead!

We also fail to realize most of the time that while we travel by bus, train, boat and car and spread our own germs (flu and otherwise) far and wide, animals of the size and stature we are discussing here, don't migrate long distances (more than 30 miles) and tend to not disperse that far either. This means that driving a truck full of critters a distance that will make sure they don't get back to the catch site, is actually putting them beyond their natural dispersal range and therefore creating an "unnatural" disease vectoring and biological mixing vessel.

I didn't start my business to just be a business man, I started it to manage wildlife the way I have learned and believe they should be. I follow ethics I can go to sleep with every night and those that I can look folks in the face and say this is how it is.

I don't look poorly upon folks who relocate because they desire the jobs, or because they follow state or other laws, but I won't do it until science tells me they live. I'm working on a collaboration right now to put my money where my mouth is and get some collars on in a well designed statistically significant project.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your reasons for doing what you do and I applaud your stance! If something can be excluded I do so, if it must be removed for me it should be lethally and with the homeowner understanding why.

Justin

?

Sometimes I really think that most of you don't get the big picture at all. You sound like some of our techs who have smelled skunk

and can't believe that I would relocate a healthy skunk just because there is a lack of them. Justin, you of all people, should

realize that those of us who relocate are not dooming the animal to predation. That large skunk I released is just as potent in the

west side of our city as he was on the east side. For every raccoon we trap ( well over a thousand ) there are twice as many dead

in the streets. If my relocated raccoon lives, that's fine. And if he doesn't, who cares? If relocating an animal meant any harm to

any human being, believe me, they would all be deader than a doornail. I have killed more animals than probably 98% of you so I

don't have a problem with it. I have rarely killed an animal unnecessarily, so why would I start now?

Paul,

Makes me think about an old friend who was planning to put a
chute in his rig, so as he left the neighborhood, he could drop
the one he just caught at the end of the block!

Future business right?

Problem is you, me, no one I know of can spot disease until it is
in the full blown end stage. This means waves of distemper, rabies
and parasitic diseases can ne spread all over from folks in the
industry and homeowners who DIY thei critter catching.

I prefer exclusion and managing the problems for individual homeowners.
I get why folks trap and relocate but you can't say they live and if they suffer
and die or home back to the catch site, how does this help?


As soon as that animal is moved from the catch site all types of
things happen.

I tell homeowners this... "relocation is for us as humans to sleep better
at night thinking we or our wildlife company did the right thing by releasing
raccoons in the country, when reality is far harsher."

Bear relocation out here runs about 80-90% mortality and is
followed with collars. If we monitored skunk, coon, squirrel and
others you can bet the result is nearly the same.

The other questions that arise are,

How far do you go to relocate various species?

Do you relocate in every season, for example when racccoons are
having litters?

How do you judge what animals are sick, or could be carriers?

Do you know the density of the species on the release site?

Do you cross any biological barriers that limit genetic interbreeding?

Any number of these and more are always part of reintroduction,

yet we know better and can just move and drop with no consequence?

Come on now? Say you don't care, but don't say it is right!

P.S. Are we havin fun yet?

I've been through all the arguments and I can't say that what you put forth isn't valid, in New Mexico, Florida, and perhaps all the southern states. I happen to live about as far north as you can get and not be Canadian.

Do I relocate everything? Of course not. I'm as sensible and compassinate as the next guy.

Do I believe that most of my relcated animals die. Yes I do. Predators need to eat too. And my animals are fresh, not rotting.

So why do I relocate? That's easy. We have had a skunk shortage for fifteen years. If only one out of a hundred skunks that I release, makes it, well at least that's one.

The disease argument holds absolutely no water in Wisconsin. If you can't tell that an animal is obviously sick, you're not looking! Releasing a diseased animal that looks healthy has certainly happened. ( Perhaps many times ) What affect has it had on the overall population of its species and any others in this area?

Well, let's see: after I and probably every other NWCO in Wisconsin has released animals all over the place for the past 24 years, here is what we've got; more animals of every native species including when the Indians were the only ones here! ( Okay, except maybe skunks and they're making a comeback too )

Animals are adapting to city life faster than city people are adapting to suburbia. The number of animals living in city housing far surpasses the numbers that ever lived in the trees.

Here is my favorite fact. The only animal that has a smaller overall population from disease in southeast Wisconsin is the striped skunk. And what was the only animal that was always destroyed? Yep, you guessed it. Didn't save 'em from disease, did it?

Justin, I promise you that if any of your warnings come true in the next 24 years, we will kill everything.

And yes Justin, arguing with someone like you is more fun than a man should be allowed to have. ( I think someone already said that )

Paul, that makes a heck of a lot of sense.

Another aspect to ponder is the other species that are impacted by releasing critters. I was talking to a DNR employee about impacted crayfish populations....the thought was the abundence of raccoons.

Dave, not sure about crayfish here but I know that our immense raccoon population is not impacting the frog population one iota. I have never seen so many croakers in my life.

I should also point out that for every raccoon I catch, I see two lying dead on the road. ( And no, I didn't release any around the highways. They got killed all by themselves )

I was thinking lethal traps was humane for winter squirrels (since we can not leave a sack of acorns with each one).....but now, I feel bad for the hawks. Maybe, mon, we, fri will be relocate days?

Paul and Dave,

Of course I love a good debate especially with folks who can articulate their point of view.
I'm heading for the mountains, get back to you with some other thoughts later.

Stay tuned...

Wink, just one point: relocating introduces an individual into unfamiliar habitat; if it's good habitat, then it's already populated with that species. So we get into carrying capacity, and animals competing for limited resources.
Obviously, with skunks, we have far fewer pred's than, say, squirrels; my point is, everyanimal has to eat and sleep somewhere: carrying capacity of every ecosystem is limited.
That having been said, I release many, many animals.

Nature is more adaptable than what we give her credit.

It's interesting to note that every year millions, if not billions, of young animals relocate themselves into strange areas where they don't know where the food is, don't know where the shelter is, possibly are carrying diseases, etc., and yet this works just fine.

Great point! Migrations....

Sgs - dispersal being natural movement of young to find and setup new territory.

If we stick with raccoon, skunk, squirrel, and other typical nuisance species, we aren't talking long distances.

That was why I asked how far do folks relocate from catch sites? How do they choose release sites?

Also nature is adaptable to me doesn't help if 1/2 the residents in any given 20 miles of city relocate all of thei wildlife to
The same spot on the river or green space.

We also gloss over the diseases that impact the wildlife without impacting us.

Canine distemper, parvo and others aren't a big bother to us, but for mesocarp ivories are a huge mortality factor.

My point is if not state mandated do you relocate...

A. Because the client gets the warm fuzzy "spot" was turned loose on a farm story?

B. less carcass disposal?

C. You fur trap and hope in the off season to take those animals?

D. You don't see the harm?

E. feel like killing them is a waste of the resource?

F. All of the above?

I'm not a pro kill guy, I'm a pro exclusion guy, yes I know many species vacant be excluded and when the cant say with my rock squirrels in gardens, I live trap and euthanize. If the client wants the warm fuzzy after talking to me I tell them to grab the yellow pages.

Am I an extremist? Nope but I believe in following biologically relevant literature.
Science can be wrong but too much info exists to argue the negatives of relocation.

I believe most follow relo because the business model is better and less tough homeowner discussions.

I don't believe we relocate because it is in the best interest of the resource.

As Paul said, likely most die but predators have to eat....

I'm just sayin why not put that animal down if necessary, versus all the unknowns.

Though I like Dave K's idea of a squirrel pack sack full of nuts for late fall/ early winter relo! Lol!

Also the migration or dispersal argument only works if you only relocate during the fall winter dispersal season.

Back to you....

Just for the record the racoon in the video had been poisoned come to find out . The repeated movement and sudden burst of energy was the sure tell . I have tried to deleaver sick animals in the past and was told basically will let you know if we need some . I think it does make more sense for people to do the exclusion work over just trapping . But the animals would need trapped out first . The release areas do get fur trapped heavy and haven't seen any sick animals there . Only in the areas not fur trapped I have . The early signs of a sick animal is ruffled fur and dirty animal . The out breaks I see are caused by domestic animals . TB northeast side of this state came from cattle first found in the 70s but nothing was done till they found out they could get funding . Over 20 going 30 years now the problem is still there but still only one answer shoot every deer you see . That's not working seems they might try something new like treat the TB threw winter feeding program and with laced corn and antibiotics or something . The hub of the problem is one small area around beaver lk . CWD started on a sheep farm in co I'm told but not really sure about that one . These high fence game farms seem to a breeding ground . They where catching wild hogs in fl then trucking them in and placing them in a fenced areas . Wow really didn't see a problem coming there . In these trailer parks around here there's a major stray cat problem and that's a breeding ground . These domestic animals are causing problems to the wild animals in my opion .

Bird feeders in the city would be the main cause of the sick dieing birds carry it in and there's a number things a bird carrys . Animals fighting at these bird feeders could be a major problem . Stay cat crap is the treat to most animals .

Once the animals get away from these breeding grounds I haven't seen any problems . I spend a lot of time in the woods year around hunting , trapping , frog giging , fishing , biulding habitats for ducks ,deer , making brush piles . Ect . .

Ave life span of about any animal is only like 8 months so yes there dieing like crazy but that's called natural causes

Domestic and wild animals don't mix well for ether animal .

This cat problem needs to be handed over

This is exactly why a good discussion on differences of opinion with someone like Justin are so valuable. For those of you that are not aware, Justin has worked in a lot of areas including ours. ( Well, I think actually Michigan )

And just like most of us, given a reasonably intelligent conversation, he is still willing to learn. This is what I think I know:

Raccoons: When relocated will travel up to ten miles, with five or so being the average.

Squirrels: Can smell a female in heat for one mile. If you take them more than that, they are out of luck!

Skunks: Just give them a field full of grasshoppers and they will be fine. Not big travelers.

Woodchucks; If relocating this time of the year, chances of survival is slim. ( Maybe a good alfalfa field would do it )

Opossums: Who cares? They have two litters a years up here and can have a dozen in a litter. Bad winters are a killer!

Chipmunks: Another who cares. We don't regulate chipmunk populations; God does. ( Can be said for all of them )

Most other species are let go on site or caught in killer traps to begin with. You can't exclude in northern states. That grey squirrel that you thought you excluded has just chewed in on the other side of the house, you dummy! Our largest humane society thought they knew it all. After two years, they are no longer in the exclusion business. Any disagreement? I'm all ears.

How perceptions would be different, if Procyon lotor were diurnal. God has surely blessed this bugger.

Sure Dave, make me go on Ask to find out that Procyon lotor is the raccoon. My daughter with the biology degree is watching her son play soccer so here I am, stuck with my high school education. Oh well, if that name ever pops up again I'll look like a college grad!

Oh...give it away...thanks.

I literally just spit pepsi all over this yard! Love that "ask" comment!

Heading for home, drop you some more thoughts tonight, good points too about squirrels and other chewers, or a house too run down for solid exclusion without getting too pricey. The folks still need service / removal.

Later,

Also don't want to switch topics but having worked on tb issues in Michigan for 5 years ive got a different story pesky.

Paul, my only trip to wisconsin was to chase radio collared deer during the hunting season! Also worked in the cwd barn processing samples. Good times! Oh and cheese, I ate cheese!

Dave, I'm sure everyone in Michigan already knew that>

Yes Justin, dispersal is what I was referring to.

The fact that millions of young animals take off to parts unknown every year kind of leads me to believe that relocation works to at least the level of natural selection.

Frankly, I mostly relocate skunks and that is just for convenience sake. I have had a few customers who were very serious about relocation though. I rendered the service they were hiring me for.

I know you have strong feelings on the issue but I don't think you really have any proof when saying...



You have no proof but you're dead certain.

I haven't found much scientific research on the subject but I have an open mind and wouldn't mind seeing some.

sqs, as a matter of fact the University of Illinois did a test sampling years ago where they collared a hundred raccoon. Nobody liked the results so nobody talks about it. The collared raccoons had the same amount of fatalities as the uncollared population. This was not what they were trying to prove. Oh well, we've all had stuff that backfired.

Probably not the best species for that test. Should have picked squirrels.

sgs - from past discussions I know you to be open minded, so i do apologize if I seem adamant. I have strong feelings that
what I do should be based on the best outcome for both my client and the species I'm removing/excluding/trapping. These
feelings are my own and based on my time and work and body of research that I and my wife have reviewed and things we've
worked on with radio collars. In Michigan years ago we had 40 coyote collared at any given time, 30+ raccoon and a few other
critters in lesser number. All of these were looking at home ranges related to bovine tb sampling and sentinel species.

I was able to see first hand how far these animals dispersed naturally and in that country it wasn't far. We had one lone young
female coyote who did a straight shot about 30 miles, outside of that all stayed within 10-15 miles of collared location and we
had many juveniles in the sample along with subadults and adults.

Raccoon the same thing, one lone critter I remember hearing from the G&F plane was 15 miles away from capture site, during
dispersal season. While the others, again remained close.

Now as we who work with wildlife know, trappers, hunters, biologists, etc... Not all habitat or animals are created equal so the
bigger your sample and longer your study the more you get to "know."

The same study done in WI might not yield the same results as here in NM, or in NH, which is why we see repetitive studies of
coyote home range for example. Folks know resources and genetics and climate play a role as do human provided or anthropogenic
resources, structures, etc...

My wife wrote a piece for our website that includes a more concise version of what I am trying to get across here. The studies done
are often not on nuisance wildlife species and often not done in a way that is relatable, but we can infer and until some funding goes
into studying it, that is likely the best I can do.

While I love scientific research, unless it is designed well, carried out well and doesn't have an agenda, it is hard to tell what you get.

I would just say, there are more negatives when you do poor over the relocation/translocation literature than positives, so for me the
balance goes to me favoring lethal when removal is absolutely necessary because the critter can't be excluded.

I know that for some folks, the knee jerk reaction to anyone going against relocation, is the next thing you know these folks will have
the state making me kill all of these animals and I'll have to explain to each homeowner, and then I'll have to deal with all of these carcasses
and so on.

I asked some questions up above, and other than those directly engaged, no one who relocates is answering them, which I think is a shame as we could all benefit from more discussion of these subjects which are "gray areas."

Here is our link to the ethics of relocation my wife wrote, she is far more concise than I am.

http://www.rdwildlife.com/ethics-of-relocation/

I suppose too, that with the state I reside in being pro relocation on so many species that have proven poor track records (prairie dogs, burrowing owls, black bear) that I have to wonder why folks think so highly of it.

Often there is no follow up or tagging done, so the folks who say they "know" these animals survive, have no proof either, so I guess again, I favor the body of literature out there, and assume if lit wasn't published it was due to a lack of scientific method that didn't pass scrutiny for publication. As the cost of pubs is always part of any projects proposal.

Good discussion though, I'm going to leave the TB part out Pesky, though will say that TB is a USDA VS program to keep TB from putting our market cattle, dairy products in a negative light in the world market, this costs millions and millions of dollars for even one state, so if thats what you mean, you are right about the money! If you are saying someone realized tb makes money, you are badly in need of heading up to the tb core area and visiting with some of the friends and farmers I have to get in touch with reality. The club you mention, now thats a good place to go looking, a bunch of wealthy lawyers, who have the largest deer clubs and the highest rates of tb and yet wouldn't for years let folks go in and test their deer and become part of a solution! I could go on, but would rather discuss the other.

I do have one question for you though pesky? Are you going to edit your youtube video and post about "rage virus" now that you know this animal was poisoned?

Justin

Justin,

Thank you for the discussion regarding relo. Regarding your question about some do it....

I can not speak for anyone else, but answers A and B are good reasons for me. Customers do like giving them a second chance, where possible. However, it is not difficult to discuss the reasons for cases when they are not a good fit. Most people do understand. Despite my specialization in mice and bats, I invested in land for the species that we do relocate. The is no write-off for land...but it seemed like the last piece of the puzzle to create a turnkey business.

I would love to talk more about exclusions as a solution for squirrels and raccoons...and your success with these methods. Do you mind visotors interested in learning?

Hey Justin, TB testing is something I grew up with. My dad was a cattle dealer and got orders in from all over. Interstate testing was a must but you wouldn't believe the testing for animals shipped out of the country. Since the majority were milk cows, if a cow did have TB would the pasteurizing process make it safe anyway? ( And what about drinking raw milk? )

You seem adamant because you *are* adamant. There's nothing to apologize for. lol

The only problem I see with being adamant is when a person starts believing that everyone should do things their way. They are right, the others are wrong.

What works in California might not be the best thing for Minnesota. What happens in the desert southwest might not be relevant in Maine.

Your questions seemed odd to me. Right off the bat you come across as belittling the customer who believes in relocating animals. It kind of feels like your belittling the WCO who believes in it too.

Like I said, I relocate mainly for convenience. When you're dealing with fifty or more skunks in a season relocation becomes the better part of valor. lol

It could be but I have no evidence that relocating these animals is hurting the species or any other species for that matter. That's why I'd like to see some unbiased research.

There are a couple of things that I do know though.

Every year, millions of animals relocate themselves. A certain percentage die but enough survive to keep the species going.

Another is that humans have been very successful at not only relocating but translocating animals. I remember when NH had no wild turkeys. Now we have them in every part of the state. A biologist told me that the original stock came from West Virginia.

NH has shipped fisher to other states.

Look at the success of the river otter relocations, the reintroduction of wolves in various places.

The list goes on and on.

What this tells me is that relocating wildlife isn't necessarily the death sentence that some would like me to believe.

So I'll continue to relocate skunks until I see credible evidence that I shouldn't.

sgs - definitely not belittling anyone, anyone reading this that thinks so can know that for sure right now as I state it.

I do understand the convenience factor, my issue with the customers is that as we all discuss, most don't know much about
the wildlife in their own back yard (some do), so when they are telling me what they see is best, I definitely have to scratch
my head, as they typically don't even know what these animals eat, when they give birth, etc....

Reintroduction is always done with massive amounts of study into food base and habitat. While obviously we as a country
of conservationists have been abundantly successful with many species, but some of that is due to limiting take and harvest
while planting tons of birds, mammals, etc... to overcome high mortality.

I used to give talks while in community college for the river otter project in NY, know that it was massively successful of course,
little known projects like lynx release back in the early 90's in NY failed miserably, most were hit on the road, or hoofed it back to Canada.

My current state, has a flagging and controversial wolf program, while the enviros want to blame ranchers, these animals just simply
aren't breeding and doing well.

So I'd say that while I agree, we've restored many game species and furbearer species, we've also put a ton of funding into making sure they would be successful and controlling harvest and take.

The other issue with dispersal is that if a nwco is going to use that as a reason it is normal, it has to be during dispersal time when animals are at their peak or prime, not when they are giving birth and strained already to manage their nutrition, springtime relocation would not be the time we see wildlife choosing to be subjected to a move to a novel environment where they must find new resources.

The other question we haven't discussed is, what about moving the "trash raccoon" to a new site which is close enough that it just finds the new homeowner development and starts anew with the ruckus.

Doesn't this mean we move the problem animal to create new problems and more business?

hmmm..... Maybe thats the hook! lol!

Like I say, good debate, not putting down folks doing this at all, or homeowners, but we all know homeowners are calling us as the experts, so what we tell them carries more weight and becomes the gospel if we do it right, so I worry about what we say and what it is based on.

Gotta run get try and make some income talk to ya'll later,

Justin