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#3216208 - 07/07/12 09:14 AM Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project
Bob Jameson Offline



Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2316
Loc: SW Pa
Had a call last week from a concerned older retired female teacher with a complaint of an animal chewing wood from the interior overhead of a boat storage pavilion type building. At first I was just a little thrown off base by her description and the location of the problem. Then after a few minutes of talking we determined it wasnt wood frass material like saw dust, but strips of splintered wood lying all over the cement floor and on the now empty boat trailor pavilion.

From the description I now could determine the most likely scenario without seeing the problem. I suggested it was a carpenter bee infestation initially. Which most likely has been going on for many years as she never had any treatments for that problem in the buildings history. So, now that the bees have chewed many galleries and successfully laid their eggs and sealed off each of their egg compartments with some nectar honey bread the larvae will develop into fat little grubs or juvenile carpenter bees depending upon how long they have been developing as to what stage of development they were prior to the extraction by the woodpeckers.

I asked if she had heard any woodpecker drilling activity over the last few months she said not really. Then asked if she has seen any woodpeckers near the house over the last few months. She said she had seen some pileated woodpeckers near the boat storage area. Now we had our answer, much to her disbelief that a bird could cause such significant damage to her trusses and overhead joists.

Here are some photos of some of the damaged areas and the completed stealth netting installation.The bird damage will now stop but we also treated her, after the fact, for the carpenter bees ( all of drilling is over for the most part by this time of year ) and will also treat her for carpenter bees each spring now to prevent further carpenter bee infestation.These destructive bees need to be treated annually for the best control.

I also included a cross section of a carpenter bee gallery for all to see if you have never seen what a gallery looks like from the interior. They can be an extremely damaging insect resulting in extreme wood integrity loss as is indicated from the photos.100 times worse over time then termite damage if left untreated.




This is the cross cut section of an average carpenter bee gallery from a piece of cedar tree trunk with brood chamber sections shown. So much for cedar wood being noted as being a pest proof natural wood product.Another wives tale proved wrong.A single egg is laid in each capped chamber with stored food for nourishment for each larvae to consume until mature to hatch and subsequently emerge as an adult.



The original drill point of entry is noted here, then subsequent drilling is done perpendicular to the entry hole in opposite directions. Over several years of use the chamber networks become vast and several such galleries are drilled to accomadate several female brood chambers.

A condo of sorts.All emerging from the initial drill point on the surface of the wood as they mature. Regardless of the egg laying sequence each egg will only emerge in the order which allows the last layed egg to emerge first allowing for obstruction free emerging.If not, the first laid egg, which is the furthest egg from the emergest hole would not be able to emerge without chewing thru each preceeding brood contained wall.




Typically you wont see mud or saw dust masticated entry barriers formed in such a way until late fall. This gallery capping behavior protects the gallery and its occupants from cold air flow and potential freezing rain and snow etc over the winter months.

For our local summer conditions the original entry point to the gallery is not commonly seen. The original points of drilling are usually left open for easy hatching and needed air flow to take place.However the interior chambers are all still sealed between individual egg chambers.

Some woodpecker damage in the boat storage pavilion.








Here are a few photos of the netting completed and corner attachments of the grid cable.














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#3216547 - 07/07/12 02:24 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
BigBob Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 8077
Loc: St. Louis Co, Mo
In my experience Carpenter Bee's leave more like a course to fine sawdust, and my first thought for the splintered leavings would be a Squirrel, but not so much from the bottom side like those pics. They are especially rough on Western Red Cedar construction.
Excellent pic's of the Bee nest, never thought to disect one before.
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#3216639 - 07/07/12 03:25 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Bob Jameson Offline



Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2316
Loc: SW Pa
The C. Bees do leave a very coarse saw dust from their chewing as well as the yellow feces spray found at the tail end of their active burrows. All tell tale signs of recent activity. All of that activity is done in this part of the U.S..

The splintering was riddled with beak marks on the interior of the galleries due to over pecking.Pileated woodpeckers are very efficient wood drillers and actually pry splintering wood to make room for them to access the larvae more easily.Their tell tale signs of activity are typically shredded strands of wood when working on domestic type finished lumber. No squirrel activity around the area of this problem. Not many squirrels in this area due to a lack of hardwoods.
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#3216759 - 07/07/12 04:49 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
22mag Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 333
Loc: AR
The pics are excellent.
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#3216769 - 07/07/12 04:57 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
ponyboy Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 109
Loc: New York
What about the carpenter Bees?

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#3216792 - 07/07/12 05:23 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Bob Jameson Offline



Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2316
Loc: SW Pa
? The carpenter bee infestation caused the initial problem that caused the interest in the food source by the woodpeckers. One of the food chains of nature.
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#3217059 - 07/07/12 09:07 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 8
Loc: south east michigan
How did you kill the bees . I see that on houses all the time . I see them big yellow bumble bees chew holes
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#3217390 - 07/08/12 06:17 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Bob Jameson Offline



Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2316
Loc: SW Pa
Pesky,

We are licensed pest control applicators also and treat the carpenter bees with a product Demand CS. A liquid insecticide with good residual effect. Like with trapping, the more experience you have with reading sign of your target animal the better the treatments will be overall.Our pest control licensing compliments our wildlife work very nicely.That is why I became certified many years ago in that field.Sure picks up the slack time when the wildlife work slows down too. Keeps my employees working when they might have had some days off.

Comes in handy for treatments for fleas from coon, bat bugs from bats,blow flies from dead animal carcasses etc.Alot of add on $$$.

Most all woodpecker jobs that we get are the result of them drilling for wood infesting insects.So we get two jobs out of one. Then the nice thing is you need to treat the carpenter bees every year.Where as the woodpecker work may only be a one time job with that customer to never return. However if the customer fails to treat the problem area for the bees, most likely you will be back to deal with it again and repair some damage.Some customers learn slow or not at all.

Some pest control applicators like trappers, just arent equal to each other.Primarily due to not knowing all the creatures habits and favorite areas to infest.Some assume if you just squirt some product around you will get it done.Not so with many jobs.The longer the infestation time( years wise ) the more understanding and detailed that job will be.

Typiically I have noticed over the years an individual lacking detail or methodical work ethic will end up not having good control of a particular problem. Therefore resulting in call backs and we all know how that digs into your pockets when you start having to do that with a customer.Eventually, after frustration, that individual just doesnt return any more calls to his customer.

Then they call someone else to handle the problem.
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#3217460 - 07/08/12 08:26 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 8
Loc: south east michigan
It's not like that up here the woodpeckers I whack are nesting in the walls , there's two holes one real small one the male roast in and a bigger one for the female , the male flys in at dusk then calls to the female . One nice thing about Michigan there's only one protected woodpecker so all others are open season if there causing damage . No permit needed . Pestcontrol guys around here just sign people up for a 1 year contract . They come out once a month and spray . Doesn't seem very healthy or green . But that's how they do it . I know there not getting there spray up inside to the root of the problem . Wonder if they call that job security . What's the active ingredient in Demand CS

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#3217480 - 07/08/12 08:45 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Bob Jameson Offline



Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2316
Loc: SW Pa
Lambda-cyhalothrin is the active ingredient in Demand CS.

We only get a few jobs that reveal woodpeckers seeking nesting or shelter areas for nesting as a rule.
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#3217532 - 07/08/12 09:36 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Peskycritter]
trapper4hire Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 44
Loc: Dayton, OH
Originally Posted By: Peskycritter
It's not like that up here the woodpeckers I whack are nesting in the walls , there's two holes one real small one the male roast in and a bigger one for the female , the male flys in at dusk then calls to the female . One nice thing about Michigan there's only one protected woodpecker so all others are open season if there causing damage . No permit needed . Pestcontrol guys around here just sign people up for a 1 year contract . They come out once a month and spray . Doesn't seem very healthy or green . But that's how they do it . I know there not getting there spray up inside to the root of the problem . Wonder if they call that job security . What's the active ingredient in Demand CS


Am I missing something?

"Woodpeckers are classified as migratory, nongame birds and are protected by the Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act. The red-cockaded woodpecker (Picoides borealis) and the ivory-billed woodpecker (Campephilus principalis) are on the Endangered Species list and are thus offered full protection. When warranted, woodpeckers other than the endangered species can be killed but only under a permit issued by the Law Enforcement Division of the US Fish and Wildlife Service upon recommendation of USDA-APHIS-Wildlife Services personnel. Generally, there must be a good case to justify issuance of a permit."

The Black Backed Woodpecker may be the only STATE endangerred woodpecker in Michigan. But it seems to me that all woodpeckers are FEDERALLY protected. Any wood pecker job I have ever done (that required "whacking" as it was called earlier) has required a FEDERAL permit, regardless of species.

If I am misinformed would someone KNOWLEDGEABLE please enlighten me.



Edited by trapper4hire (07/08/12 09:50 AM)
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#3217698 - 07/08/12 11:41 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Bob Jameson Offline



Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2316
Loc: SW Pa
The laws of Pa. are the same as Ohio from my information over the years regarding woodpeckers. They all require permits to use lethal means and must be justified in each case or a permit shall not be issued. However I am not familiar with the laws regarding these birds in other states.
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#3217788 - 07/08/12 12:40 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: trapper4hire]
LAtrapper Offline

"Professor"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 2292
Loc: Lower Alabama (Daleville)
The Michigan DNR site page Wildlife Damage and Nuisance Control Permits (Revised October 12, 2011) contains links to various permit applications and related regulations. The regulations seem to be pretty comprehensive. One paragraph states
Quote:
MIGRATORY BIRDS
Migratory birds are protected by both state and federal regulations. Thus, the control of migratory bird species requires a federal permit in addition to state authorization. Federal regulations do not protect feral pigeons, starlings, or English sparrows; thus a federal permit is not required to control these species. In addition, the control of depredating blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, crows, and magpies may be undertaken without a federal permit under certain circumstances. For more information regarding the federal regulations or the issuance of federal permits, please consult with the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service (telephone 612-713-5436). A federal permit for the control of protected migratory birds must be obtained before state authorization will be given. State regulations protect all bird species regardless of whether resident or migratory, thus authorization is needed for any bird control work in Michigan.
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#3217914 - 07/08/12 02:12 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
BigBob Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 8077
Loc: St. Louis Co, Mo
As I understand it, Ivory Billed Woodpeckers are considered extinct, except for a RUMOR of ONE that MAY have been HEARD/SEEN in, I believe deep woods Mississippi.
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#3219804 - 07/09/12 08:28 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 16058
Loc: Central Ohio
S. S. S.

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#3220210 - 07/10/12 03:01 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: LAtrapper]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 8
Loc: south east michigan
Originally Posted By: LAtrapper
The Michigan DNR site page Wildlife Damage and Nuisance Control Permits (Revised October 12, 2011) contains links to various permit applications and related regulations. The regulations seem to be pretty comprehensive. One paragraph states
Quote:
MIGRATORY BIRDS
Migratory birds are protected by both state and federal regulations. Thus, the control of migratory bird species requires a federal permit in addition to state authorization. Federal regulations do not protect feral pigeons, starlings, or English sparrows; thus a federal permit is not required to control these species. In addition, the control of depredating blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, crows, and magpies may be undertaken without a federal permit under certain circumstances. For more information regarding the federal regulations or the issuance of federal permits, please consult with the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service (telephone 612-713-5436). A federal permit for the control of protected migratory birds must be obtained before state authorization will be given. State regulations protect all bird species regardless of whether resident or migratory, thus authorization is needed for any bird control work in Michigan.
Feds only protect the indangered woodpeckers all other woodpeckers If causing property damage no permit is needed . I got that from the head fed woodpecker guy . Or the horses mouth . Theres only one woodpecker that nest in Michigan that I would need a permit for and that one nest about 200 miles north of me . In some states your state might protect all woodpecker so check your state laws .
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#3220214 - 07/10/12 03:13 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 8
Loc: south east michigan
Originally Posted By: Bob Jameson
The laws of Pa. are the same as Ohio from my information over the years regarding woodpeckers. They all require permits to use lethal means and must be justified in each case or a permit shall not be issued. However I am not familiar with the laws regarding these birds in other states.
that's not true I've herd that for years as well . Till this year when we tried to gain a permit and got put in contact with mr woodpecker and found out it wasn't possable to get a permit for a non indangered woodpecker that causing property damage . Because one is not needed . You still need to check with your state laws and see if you need a permit on a state level . Here in Michigan if it's ok with the Feds it's ok with them on all woodpeckers but that one kind .
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#3220276 - 07/10/12 06:26 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Bob Jameson Offline



Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2316
Loc: SW Pa
My close friend is Mr.Woodpecker with the Pa. Game Commission, I get my permit information from him. They are protected here and require permitting by a NWCO to initiate lethal means or the customer may do it on their own if they dont get caught.That information was given to me yesterday.
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#3220278 - 07/10/12 06:32 AM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Peskycritter]
trapper4hire Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 44
Loc: Dayton, OH
Hey Pesky I think Mr Woodpecker should read his own laws.

This is a quote from USDA
Woodpeckers are classified as migratory, nongame birds and are protected by the Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act. The red-cockaded woodpecker (Picoides borealis) and the ivory-billed woodpecker (Campephilus principalis) are on the Endangered Species list and are thus offered full protection. When warranted, woodpeckers other than the endangered species can be killed but only under a permit issued by the Law Enforcement Division of the US Fish and Wildlife Service upon recommendation of USDA-APHIS-Wildlife Services personnel. Generally, there must be a good case to justify issuance of a permit."

These are quotes from Michigan Permit regs

"Permittees shall be authorized to undertake control measures on the premises of the complainant for the control of
bats that are not threatened or endangered and the control of coyote, fox, weasels, mink, raccoon, skunk, opossum,
woodchuck, badger, muskrat, squirrels, ground squirrels, rabbits, English sparrows, feral pigeons, starlings, and crows.
Permittees shall also be authorized to undertake control measures on the premises of the complainant on beaver on private
lands in zone 3 during the closed season; however, beaver shall not be live trapped and relocated or translocated without
authorization of the wildlife management unit supervisor. Control of damage by other wildlife shall be undertaken only as
authorized by a wildlife biologist or conservation officer. Control of damage caused by protected migratory birds shall
require a federal permit
.


SPECIES WHICH MAY NOT BE HANDLED WITHOUT
A SPECIAL PERMIT OR AUTHORIZATION

No protected wildlife species, other than those listed previously within Section 5.52 (3) on page 5 of this
circular, may be trapped or killed without first obtaining a special permit or special authorization from the
Department
.
Special permits or authorization may be requested at the local DNR Law Enforcement District
Office or Wildlife Management Unit Office listed on pages 17-18 of this circular.

MIGRATORY BIRDS
Migratory birds are protected by both state and federal regulations. Thus, the control of migratory bird species requires a
federal permit in addition to state authorization. Federal regulations do not protect feral pigeons, starlings, or English
sparrows; thus a federal permit is not required to control these species. In addition, the control of depredating blackbirds,
cowbirds, grackles, crows, and magpies may be undertaken without a federal permit under certain circumstances. For
more information regarding the federal regulations or the issuance of federal permits, please consult with the U. S. Fish
and Wildlife Service (telephone 612-713-5436). A federal permit for the control of protected migratory birds must be
obtained before state authorization will be given. State regulations protect all bird species regardless of whether resident
or migratory, thus authorization is needed for any bird control work in Michigan
.




Edited by trapper4hire (07/10/12 06:36 AM)
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#3220900 - 07/10/12 05:06 PM Re: Recently completed Stealth Bird Netting Project [Re: Bob Jameson]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 8
Loc: south east michigan
Don't take my word for it . Call Will mcdearman 601-321-1124 or email Will_mcdearman@fws.gov This guy works for us and is a true professional and very high up the ladder when it comes to woodpecker laws . Very easy guy to talk to . I asked about these same things we have been told and read about permits for woodpeckers and they only go for the indangered types . He also said the federal gov can be frustrating at times to work with . If a common found woodpecker is causing damage to your home no permit is need and by law can't even get one . That's not to say that someone not knowing the true laws won't write out a permit . Give this guy a call find out the facts for yourself
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