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#3106423 - 04/04/12 07:13 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
sgs Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/10/09
Loc: NH
Thanks for that link Ron. I had not read it. Although interesting, it doesn't really answer my question. The study isn't about relocated animals. It's about animals released on site. And even being released right on site, only half the den and resting sites were in a human structure.

Quote:
We recorded 205 locations from 20 raccoons in 103 different
den and resting sites from 11 April 199830 May 2000. Fifty
percent of all den and resting sites located throughout the study (n
103) were in man-made structures.


It would be interesting to see the results on properly relocated animals.

Without facts, "common sense" would tell me to keep an open mind and not jump to unsubstantiated conclusions.
_________________________
Steve

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#3106529 - 04/04/12 08:07 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: sgs]
LAtrapper Offline

"Professor"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Lower Alabama (Daleville)
A GOOGLE search for some of the references cited in the study will bring up some additional information, i.e., http://chavesextension.nmsu.edu/documents/2012-nmsu-extaniscideptnewsltr-jan--hdh.pdf . That was one result of my search for Toward a professional position on the translocation of problem wildlifeWildlife Society Bulletin 26:171177. Within the GOOGLE searches are found additional links to more information.

http://www.berrymaninstitute.org/journal/spring2009/gammons_mengak_conner_sp09.pdf

Some of these references are a little too deep for my 72-year-old brain to totally encompass. Too much information!!! blush
_________________________
Note to self- Engage brain before opening mouth (or hitting the ENTER key/SUBMIT button).

Ron Fry


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#3106657 - 04/04/12 09:11 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
Perhaps someone could come up with the Illinois study. ( I think it was the University of Illinois that did it? ) They collared about eighty raccoons from various areas and also caught a bunch from the release area. They let them all go and tracked them. If I remember correctly the study didn't prove what they wanted it to, so it doesn't get mentioned very much. For one thing, no more relocated raccoons died than if they hadn't been relocated. ( I'm sure that wasn't well accepted ) Another thing was, some raccoons went nearly ten miles before relocating themselves. Of the twenty or so raccoons that were caught in the release area, only one left the area for good. All the rest stayed there. I guess you can keep having studies until they finally prove what you want them to prove. And yes, some of the chimney raccoons went back to living in chimneys but then that's what caps are for, aren't they?

P.S. This is just what my 69-year-old brain could remember so I could be little off on some of the facts.

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#3106819 - 04/04/12 10:55 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Loc: south east michigan
I guess the study show they will walk 2 miles before they even stop , now woodchuck seem to stick like glue because I take them to this hay field and after about June is over when I pull in that field it kinda looks like a penguin colony with all there heads sticking up , wounded if I could sell guided ground hog hunts
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#3111284 - 04/07/12 08:26 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Loc: Central Ohio
PW... The Trapper and Predator Caller had a STUDY PRINTED IN THEIR MAGAZINE...that stated only 3% of relocated raccoons survive !

What would the local population of raccoons do if I dumped a few hundred raccoons into their habitat ?

You people who go dumping raccoons and squirrels into an already saturated habitat are doing NO ONE a favor !

Raccoons carry distemper and in most cases, unless it's advanced, you can't tell it unless you hold the animal, which then in many cases, the stress of being held captive will cause it to show itself.

IMO....Animals caught inside homes should be destroyed. Grey squirrels are just rats in a cuter outfit and I kill hundreds every year. Same with raccoons.
I'm getting the feeling we have some animal rights people trying to mascarade as nuisance trappers.

YOU CAN'T STOCK PILE WILDLIFE !

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#3111505 - 04/07/12 11:33 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
Like I said LT; you just keep having studies until they prove your point. That 3% study was a crock and everybody knows it. If you released your raccoons in the middle of the expressway, more than 3% would make it. I may have killed as many raccoons in my life as you. I don't ever disagree with someone who kills everything nor do I disagree with someone who releases ever thing.

One of the very first things that the Wildlife Specialists told us was that nature's way of handling over population was smaller litters. We have more raccoons than ever before and our litters have increased by one on average. So much for that theory. We are also seeing more litters of five and six squirrels than ever before. If I ever feel that I'm having a negative impact on any of the wildlife populations in my area, I will certainly change my ways.

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#3111755 - 04/08/12 08:10 AM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
sgs Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/10/09
Loc: NH
I've looked for that Illinois study you mentioned Paul but I've had no luck. I'll keep looking though. There does seem to be very little scientific information on the subject available on the internet.

There's plenty of opinions concerning the relocation of wildlife and that's fine. When I find someone with a strong, rather inflexible opinion I always hope it's backed up by facts. That's why I asked. I'm looking for as much information as I can get before making a decision.

In the meantime, seeing that it's legal to either relocate or euthanize in my area, I'll keep doing both depending on circumstance. It's nice to be able to make a decision like this rather than having the government require one or the other.
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Steve

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#3111895 - 04/08/12 10:00 AM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: sgs]
LAtrapper Offline

"Professor"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Lower Alabama (Daleville)
I believe that the study Paul W. is referring to was published as Survival and Movements of Translocated Raccoons in Northcentral Illinois - Journal of Wildlife Management 63(1):278-286- http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/38...sid=56007723253 . I cannot find it online. A quote from JSTOR website-
Quote:
Preview or purchase options are not available
You may be able to access this item through one of the over 9,000 institutions that subscribe to JSTOR. Check the list of participating institutions to login or find a participating library near you.
Think you might have access to this item via your library? Login.


EDIT: The article may be available here- https://bookstore.wildlife.org/Details.cfm?ProdID=87&category=


Edited by LAtrapper (04/08/12 10:58 AM)
_________________________
Note to self- Engage brain before opening mouth (or hitting the ENTER key/SUBMIT button).

Ron Fry


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#3112076 - 04/08/12 12:46 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Loc: south east michigan
When was a kid I grew up watching Al West ww2 vet ,He was on one of the 32 navy subs that we had going into the war ,it was also the oldest and slowest sub we had and one the 8 that servifed the war , thought I would throw that in because I herd all the story's but anyway he's past now . He was in the wildlife control biz . He took his barn and turned into a giant coon cage were he kept all his coons together to the fall came . These coons all lived just fine and had no problems keeping them I good health . The problem he did have was he like to show them to people and seeing he rented out the other barn to a fur buyer that was a lot of people . So finally some one did report him and he got one big ticket and he stoped his coon farm . He also sold the company not sure if he lost his lic or not over the coon farm . Back then it was control by the mi dep of agg . This also could be looked at as a test case . Not saying anybody should start a coon farm or what he did was right
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#3112178 - 04/08/12 02:44 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
Thanks Ron, you're always there to help. I read the abstract and it clarified what I got wrong. 31 raccoons were released in 1993 with radio collars and 45 in 1994. The ones that were released on site, stayed on site and the ones that were translocated left within hours or days. There was no difference in casualties in any of the groups. They felt that their study proved that translocation was an effective way to reestablish populations.

They also felt that translocating a large number of animals to a single area could cause problems. We have always felt that releasing too many animals in a given spot was counterproductive. Once again, what works for us may not work for you. Common sense should always prevail.

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#3112546 - 04/08/12 08:15 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Loc: Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Peskycritter
When was a kid I grew up watching Al West ww2 vet ,He was on one of the 32 navy subs that we had going into the war ,it was also the oldest and slowest sub we had and one the 8 that servifed the war , thought I would throw that in because I herd all the story's but anyway he's past now . He was in the wildlife control biz . He took his barn and turned into a giant coon cage were he kept all his coons together to the fall came . These coons all lived just fine and had no problems keeping them I good health . The problem he did have was he like to show them to people and seeing he rented out the other barn to a fur buyer that was a lot of people . So finally some one did report him and he got one big ticket and he stoped his coon farm . He also sold the company not sure if he lost his lic or not over the coon farm . Back then it was control by the mi dep of agg . This also could be looked at as a test case . Not saying anybody should start a coon farm or what he did was right



Yeah, fatten them up, then skin them !

This is a fur trappers site the last time I checked !!!

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#3112972 - 04/09/12 04:10 AM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Loc: south east michigan
Fur trappers don't fatten stuff up ,that's farms and witches
_________________________
htt:// www.animalremovalmi.com

Free Trapper

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#3113705 - 04/09/12 03:38 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Loc: Central Ohio
Nah, Fur trappers do fatten up penned animals....and I know plenty across the country that do.

Fattening an animal up, means it's simply penned up, fed a high protein diet or it uses up little energy while confined.

Either way, if confined and fed long enough, it furs out and can be pelted.

Catch 100 raccoons in September/October, feed them dog food and corn 2-3 months and make another $20-$30. on top of what you got payed to trap them.
You do the math !

Here in Ohio however, we can not keep trapped animals.

All caught under a fur taker's permit, must be "reduced to possession"...(in laymen's terms :killed while in the trap or snare ) or released "on site."

Nuisance trappers have slightly different laws, but not much. Raccoons, coyotes , foxes etc. , must be euthanized or released on site. No exceptions.

I know many trappers, in other states, where legal, catch animals, pen them up, feed them and collect droppings and/or urine
until they prime up, then pelt them. It isn't much different than a fur farmer, except one is taken from the wild, the other captive bred.


Peskycritter, what are you doing with those muskrats you're trapping in colony traps along those concrete walls, during season ? They're drown !

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#3113780 - 04/09/12 04:08 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
I don't know what Pesky is doing with them but I throw them out the window for the predators. I figure that I'm probably responsible for the upsurge in muskrat prices. All you need to do to make opossum hides valuable is don't sell any. Pretty soon everyone will want them.

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#3113815 - 04/09/12 04:28 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Loc: Central Ohio
Promise ? whistle laugh

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#3114049 - 04/09/12 07:05 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
Well so far I've talked to a bunch of opossums that would like to keep them.

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#3114124 - 04/09/12 07:41 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Mike Flick Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/06/12
Loc: 1st civ. Div. Wood County Wi.
Everyone here seems to be batteling to prove they are right, when in fact there all right. Paul makes a good point with litter sizes being smaller when the animals have food shortages. And LT. could also be correct with the animals not surviving in the strange wild habitat because they will fight to protect resourses.
In my opinion, its all over available chow for the masses.And city critters are differant than woodsey critters. The urban setting has an unlimmited carrying capacity because of trash, dog food, and every house is a hollow tree just waiting for a bunch of coons or squirrels to move in to. As long as everyone is fat and happy, there will be no conflict.
I have watched turkeys, raccoons, and fox eating out of the same food pile within 10 feet of each other, and the fox minded his own with the coons, and the turkeys didnt look too worried either.
When the fields in the country are picked, then the scraps are picked up by the critters, we begin to see the shortages. Maybe then things are more competitave, and the relocation thing would be a bad idea for mr. coon, but 3 % is still better than 0% and you dont have to wash the blood out of the truck every day.
I personally dont think anyone here cares if LT. kills his catches or not. We here in Wisconsin are allowed to relocate under certain conditions, and i dont care who likes that or doesnt.
So to put it nicely, I wish you girls would stop fighting, you're both pretty. LOL!
_________________________
http://www.anytimeanimalcontrol.com Since 2001,

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#3114498 - 04/09/12 10:48 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Peskycritter Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Loc: south east michigan
I wish I had a 1000 rats to send to canada right now it would buy a new truck most likely hard to say what they will bring in the may sale . I know they hit 36 at the last one . It's nice living in the area that has the best rats in the country , I was just showing how I relocate coons that's all . This has inspired me to wright a email to the Michigan DNR asking if we could do are Owen study by tagging are release animals and find out where they end up , maybe daveK would wright a letter for me seeing he has the skills at letter wrighting . We should all wright in asking to start ar owen program . This study would have know sides to it. Wouldn't cost much and just think what we would learn . The DNR has been asking for volunteer help , if they tried to change are rules we would know if it was good or not . If I trap muskrat out of season for damage control they must go in the garbage we can't even use them for bait not say I wish to use them for bait in the summer time ,they make great bait in my pocket sets come dec on
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#3114522 - 04/09/12 11:05 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Vinke Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: pacific NW
Quote:
Perhaps homes should be built to keep critters out.


Most are,,,,,,,,it is time and reroofing/rot/specified gap/,,,,,,,
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#3114535 - 04/09/12 11:16 PM Re: YouTube the way we relocate coon family's [Re: Peskycritter]
Mike Flick Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/06/12
Loc: 1st civ. Div. Wood County Wi.
I gotta agree with ya there Vink. Especially the re-roof thing. I cant count the times I saw the gaps created by a slap hammer that made it a purfect bat cave.
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http://www.anytimeanimalcontrol.com Since 2001,

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