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#2952790 - 01/16/12 09:01 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
The Beav Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2323
Loc: Wisconsin
Ya I would like to know the answer to that one to. And you have a hard time getting a oval shape on a hoop.

This Idea of thick or thin hides Is of no concern. All beaver are machine thinned to decrease the weight of the hide. That has always been the hang up In the beaver processing.
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#2952799 - 01/16/12 09:04 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 82
Loc: mn north of blakely
I've figured out a surefire way to determine finished beaver size on a green fleshed hide.

Here it is.

After you do a thousand or two by the time you get done fleshing you know within 95 percent certainty what size its going to be.

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#2952800 - 01/16/12 09:04 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
Otter04 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 738
Loc: Westerlo, New York

If you can pull them out to the same line all the way around and there tight you have reached your size. if you cant get half the beaver on one side out to the same line you have him overstretched. you want them tight but not to the point your nail holes are tearing.


Edited by Otter04 (01/16/12 09:06 PM)

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#2952997 - 01/16/12 10:24 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Posts: 339
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
I never stretch any fur tight as it will thin the fur and you will lose on the grade-beaver is no different,Just my opinion based on what FHA graders have indicated to me many times.

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#2953101 - 01/16/12 11:17 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
willvalley Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/30/08
Posts: 814
Loc: SWEET HOME OREGON
Read an article a bit back on over streching beaver. According the the writing one can. It talked about grade like Boco said. You can get a larger size sometimes but it does not always help as when you thin the fur you loose in grade. Most times the little bit smaller size will grade better and you price will be higher then the lower grade on the larger size.
I use the formula 1 1/2 + 2 the length of the green hide hanging, works pretty good. An over stretched hide is easy to tell also.
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#2953373 - 01/17/12 07:50 AM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
The Beav Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2323
Loc: Wisconsin
Thins the fur? I totally disagree with that thought.
When you stretch a hide your just removing the elasticity In the leather and taking up the slack on a stretcher. The fur density stays the same.
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#2953570 - 01/17/12 10:21 AM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: The Beav]
goldy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 4426
Loc: minnesota
Originally Posted By: The Beav
Thins the fur? I totally disagree with that thought.
When you stretch a hide your just removing the elasticity In the leather and taking up the slack on a stretcher. The fur density stays the same.
Exactly. Like I posted earlier, next time some of you stretch a beaver grab the center of the pelt, or push the pelt up through the leg holes. You will see the pelt never gets totally tight. There is not a grader in this world that can tell the difference in the density of a beaver pelt stretched tight on the edges as opposed to stretched a little looser. By stretching the pelts that are borderline in size I know I get a minimum of $5 more when I stretch them into the next size.

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#2953628 - 01/17/12 10:54 AM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Posts: 339
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
Take two beaver pelts or any pelt if you like and stretch one as tight as you can and stretch the other one just enough to take out the wrinkles-when dry you can easily see the difference and if you run your hand over it Its even more of a pronounced difference.I've spoken with teh graders at FHA on many occasions and they all say you will gain monitarily on pelts by stretching only enough to take out the wrinkles.Grade trumps size except on poor quality pelts.This is why Fox and marten are now stretched on ranch boards which are long and narrow because wide boards thin the fur by overstretching it.Also the reason beaver are stretched oval.Round stretched pulled the fur too wide in the shoulder area thus thinning the fur density per sq.in.You can stretch your fur any way you want and if you are happy with that so be it.I'm not trying to get anyone to change the way that works for them,just giving some background info.You can find all this info and more in publications regularly disseminated by the auction houses.

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#2953748 - 01/17/12 11:58 AM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
The Beav Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2323
Loc: Wisconsin
It just seems strange to me that when I use my vise grips to get that hide to the next line I still have enough slake In the hide to nail the leg holes shut. If the hide was over stretched I would find It hard to believe there would be enough slake to allow me to do this.

I'm going to keep on over stretching my beaver hides It works for me. LOL
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#2953887 - 01/17/12 01:41 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: The Beav]
goldy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 4426
Loc: minnesota
Originally Posted By: The Beav
It just seems strange to me that when I use my vise grips to get that hide to the next line I still have enough slake In the hide to nail the leg holes shut. If the hide was over stretched I would find It hard to believe there would be enough slake to allow me to do this.

I'm going to keep on over stretching my beaver hides It works for me. LOL
The proof is in the paycheck.

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#2953890 - 01/17/12 01:45 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: The Beav]
MNCedar Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 41
Loc: Central MN
I'm no expert....

but is there actually an example photo of a beaver that has been "over-stretched"? Guess I've always heard from people whose opinions I value, that you cannot over-stretch a beaver.

Beaver fur is dense enough I just can't tell a difference if I pull one with the pliers or let it sag.....other than the SIZE.

Perfect example is that the beaver market hasn't been the strongest the past couple seasons. Overstretching would be a PERFECT comment for a country buyer to make to justify his price....and I just haven't heard it. All I was told was you can't pull a beaver too much.

Just my .02 cents.

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#2954337 - 01/17/12 05:55 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: MNCedar]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1168
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
My opinion is that pulling the beaver too tight will sometimes rip the edge of the pelt when drying. Of course raising it on the nails helps as the nails will tilt inward.

I beleive it is difficult to prove how much if any that it may thin the under fur by pulling too tight. Besides visual and size measuring the beaver is graded for quality by feel of the fur between the shoulders of the pelt. This is where the density of the underfur is checked.

Trappers for the most part, specially if they sell to country buyers, have only seen beaver graded by size, leather color, and visible damage. It takes years of experience to be able to grade fur density by feel.
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Director BCTA
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#2954847 - 01/17/12 08:32 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: trapper ron]
bobsetter Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 0
Loc: UP Michigan
On a clean skinned late winter beaver a 41" snap measured beaver will measure 66" inside the nails on a NAFA pattern . I mean CLEAN skinned . If you leave grizl on, you won't get it ,just because it looks white doesn't mean it's clean .If you are wipeing oil off while it's drying that should tell you something. I'm not saying any other way is wrong but thats the way the buyers measured and bought green beaver 60 years ago . I never saw a beaver sold in the grease in those days . Of course there was no NAFA in those days or patterns. My buddy justand fleshed 18 ruogh skinned beaver (the first he ever did that way) and we couldn't get the size out of them. I think I know why but won't stick my neck out when I'm not sure .I'll go with Greg and say late winter northern beaver can't be over stretched. I think you're spitting into the wind when you say he's wrong . I'm glad we don't all agree ,this would get boring.

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#2955008 - 01/17/12 09:15 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
Steven 49er Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 82
Loc: mn north of blakely
Boco, go ask those same graders at FHA whats paid more on average the last ten years.

A sixty inch c color heavy grade?

Or a sixty five inch c color semi heavy grade?

The truth will set you free.

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#2955099 - 01/17/12 09:41 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
BeavBGone Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 289
Loc: northern MN
Steven, I was doing some figuring for the heck of it and last may at nafa it was about a even trade off, at least on mine. A 1x semi or a large heavy was about the same it seemed. Im still going for size as I dont believe Im losing a grade on every beaver I can stretch to make a bigger size. Even if half the beaver you, we will call it over stretch, lose a grade you will still be money ahead.

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#2955127 - 01/17/12 09:51 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
olminktoe Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Northeast S.D.
Once a hide is tanned does it not return to it's original size? Therefor can any hide be over stretched?

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#2955140 - 01/17/12 09:54 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
olminktoe Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Northeast S.D.
I had a mink tanned that measured 28" or better on the stretcher, and came back looking like a good sized female!

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#2955262 - 01/17/12 10:55 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
Jacks Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 397
Loc: Bemidji, MN
Another question for u beaver guys.

Sometimes when I take my beaver off the boards the hair will be matted down, it appears more prounced in the belly area but is definitely across the hole pelt. Before you comb, u can fell little hair balls. If you really work it over with the comb both directions you can get them out, but i am removing hair with bruash. My usually method on putting up beaver, is freeze whole, thaw then skin (60 %I skin right away when dry) then freeze, thaw and flesh and board. I nail down on plywood and lift up pelt on nails.

Why do some get matted? Is it because I didnt try to keep my fleshing beam clean enough and hair soaked up fat juices? Or the fur was not completely dry when skinned (I try to wait till dry) or was the fur underwater too long, a lot of my beaver are under ice? Or just did not do a good enough job combing?

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#2955298 - 01/17/12 11:35 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Posts: 339
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
Here it is steve-size

3(lge) IptII B-$40
3 I&II HVY B-$34

3 I-II SEMI B-$24
These are all shearable.
3 I-II FLAT B-$17
A beaver pelt stretched loose at 56 in. would have a far better chance of falling into one of the shearable grades than the same one stretched tight to 59 in.
You will recieve far more shearable grades by boarding your beaver a little loose than the person who stretches it tight.

This is taken directly from the FHA pelt handling manual and I can attest to its accuracy.

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#2955307 - 01/17/12 11:50 PM Re: Stretched vs over stretched beaver [Re: Clark]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Posts: 339
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
Heres some more from NAFA.... Shapes other than oval can cause possible size loss and especially the occurence of overstretching in the back area resulting in a loss of density and possibly grade reduction,especially in fall beaver.

So there you have it boys right from the folks that grade your fur.

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