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#284437 - 08/04/07 10:33 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Computer Hater]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5934
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
I'm glad Randy that maximum mink musk usage works for you and Eric, whatever works well be sure to keep on doing.
Mink musk has a value in a mink lure or I wouldn't have it in all three of my mink lure formulas.
However, it is quite possible that so many trappers say no mink lure has ever produced for them because perhaps the lures they tried were laced to the max with mink musk in the lure makers quest to produce a strong smelling lure. Also, perhaps natural mink odors from a catch are viewed differently than prepared mink musk lures by some mink.
As I said in above postings, a well formulated lure used correctly has the possibility of adding 30% to ones total harvest. This 30% figure is estimated from my testing and experience. 70% of mink can be taken quite nicely by usage of unlured blind sets. That leaves 30% to do the testing on. Now as already stated, big buck mink don't mind any amount of musk odor for they fear nothing. More timid smaller male mink sometimes fear exagerated musk odors so a few will back off from loud musk odors. Some females are bolder than others so loud musk odors won't back off every female but there are a considerable number that will shy away. (read Newhouse's post in this thread as an example) So what we are talking about here is perhaps a total difference in harvest of possibly 10% because of too much mink musk being applied at sets. That is a hard number for one to draw affirmative opinions about without years of exensive testing, observation and experience. If one is doing well on the mink line and is not a lure maker always striving to produce a better lure there would be no reason for one to make test after test in season and out of season with mock sets. On the other hand, the addition of weasel musk to the formula always sees a quick result in increased harvesting and mink's commitment to a pocket. This incresed catch shows me that many mink of both sexes were passing sets lured with mink musk formulated lures, that it took an additional enrager to get their attention. There isn't anything scientific about any of this, just an opinion from taking a hard look at the subject for a long time. Ace


Edited by Asa Lenon (08/04/07 10:42 PM)

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#284458 - 08/04/07 10:59 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
3-N Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 226
Loc: SW MT
I'm not a mink trapper but this is a interesting thread..you brought your "A" game tonight Ace.
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"Successful trapping is grounded in the application of common horse sense."
Badlands Bill Jaborski

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#284462 - 08/04/07 11:01 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: 3-N]
madtrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 2137
Loc: Ely, Minnesota, coolest small ...
Well Asa, which of your mink lures has weasel musk in it? I need to pick some up at the MTA in a week.
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Ely, Minnesota, coolest small town in America, 2010.

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#284465 - 08/04/07 11:04 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
Computer Hater Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 217
Loc: Ohio
Asa,

I agree with a lot of what has been said on this thread. The weasel musk being an enrager is one of them. The only reason I posted was because of the amount of mink that I catch in sets that have already caught mink and the fact that these sets smelled very minky because the mink let off some musk in his struggles. Remember, I'm not using this mink musk at the beginning. The first mink that gets caught is leaving it. All I'm doing is resetting the trap. And as stated earlier, I have other sets there but a lot of the mink get caught in that same trap. Don't get me wrong, I catch mink in the other sets at times but once that first mink is caught it seems that set gets a lot more attention.

I had a set last year that was in the edge of a small beaver swamp. An uprooted tree was at the edge and I was able to fashion a small pocket back under the roots. The first mink was a big old male and I caught him by the back foot. Needless to say when I stepped out of the truck, I knew I had caught a mink. He was still alive and very unhappy to see me. Over the next couple weeks I caught 3 more male mink there and two were juveniles. I caught one other male mink about 30 feet away and he was a juvenile also but he was the only mink caught in that set.

No disrespect to you nor am I trying to be argumentative. I understand your reasoning behind your lure formulas and your thoughts that too much mink musk can possibly scare some mink off. I even agree that possibly some mink may shy away occasionally. I just wanted to offer the fact that a lot of mink are caught by trappers in sets that smell of mink musk because another mink has been caught there previously. And again, I really don't use mink lure except as stated above.

You may have hit on something there when you say, "Perhaps natural mink odors from a catch are viewed differently than prepared mink musk lures by some mink." I don't know how to prove that theory but it could sure explain a lot of things.
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Member NTA

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#284472 - 08/04/07 11:22 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Computer Hater]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
I think Randy that we can "theorize" all day long, what counts is dead mink in the back of the truck.

If you are running around with Eric Space, then you boys are flat out killing some mink.

Actually on the subject of females, when handling ranch mink the females, especially the old ones, are down right mean and nasty. I don't think they are afraid of much of anything.

It is impossible to assess these things any other way than the end result, dead mink in my opinion. Unless snow tracking, it is surely impossible to completely assess misses at a mink set. To me the only reasonable assessment could be the fact that you have several sets side by side, with varying attractors or in this case, one musked up and the others not. The you have to consider the direction the mink came from, in relationship to which set took him. Most of the mink I catch, with no snow, it is just impossible to do that as there are no or very slight tracks to work with.
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#284612 - 08/05/07 08:48 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: k9.]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5934
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Madtrapper asked...Well Asa, which of your mink lures has weasel musk in it? I need to pick some up at the MTA in a week.

Mink Super All Call and Mink Super Range All Call both have weasel musk in the formula but the Super Range All Call has a larger amount. Ace

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#284624 - 08/05/07 08:59 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
learn where and how to set traps for them and there is no need for lure or bait ..... had this discussion with a guy in chat ..... like the idea of the pocket due to the shifting of feet at the set and more chances of connecting ..... my response was ..... mink have 4 feet .... many time they use these 4 feet as 2 ..... but ya only need 1 to make a catch ;\) lmao
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Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#285357 - 08/05/07 09:24 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
It is interesting to me that some of the top minkers consider the carcass of a female mink the best mink bait.

You guys like mink carcasses for mink bait or not?
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#285393 - 08/05/07 09:40 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: k9.]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 16058
Loc: Central Ohio
Works as well as muskrat in my opinion. I remove the glands on mine though!

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#285395 - 08/05/07 09:43 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: k9.]
2poor Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 8631
Loc: Lake Mille Lacs , MN
Never used a Mink carcass as Mink bait but the Fisher are sure fond of them.

I have used skinned Weasel carcasses stuffed in the back of a pocket with great results. Most often the glands have been removed but the smell still lingers.
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It is a lazy man that can't find his wife a second job !

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#285582 - 08/05/07 11:46 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: 2poor]
pnwmtnmn
Unregistered


On the subject of repeat catches. Yes they smell super minky to us poor nosed humans but, there is also urine dropped or sprayed, scat, saliva, anger and fear phermones and who knows what other gland or scents that we can't smell in that catch area. Once we figure all that out then the commercial super minky all call lure can be made but until then, do what works for ya and listen to people that can catch them in numbers.

Ok thats my 2cents worth and all I have to say on the subject.

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#285675 - 08/06/07 07:02 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: ]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5934
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
pnwmtnmn writes...
there is also urine dropped or sprayed, scat, saliva, anger and fear phermones and who knows what other gland or scents that we can't smell in that catch area

Good point pnwmtnmn! All of these odors combined could present a whole different scenario to a mink than just a loud minky smelling mink lure formula. Thanks for your input! Ace


Edited by Asa Lenon (08/06/07 08:23 AM)

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#285787 - 08/06/07 08:14 AM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
So how do you guys know when a mink has refused a set or shyed away? I would think that to be highly improbable to know or prove unless always working with ice/snow conditions for perfect tracking. Then you have to assess all the other variables that would possibly constitute a refusal or lack of interest.
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#291910 - 08/10/07 09:02 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: ]
ADC
Unregistered


ttt

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#291926 - 08/10/07 09:09 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: ]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Instigator!
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#291930 - 08/10/07 09:11 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: k9.]
ADC
Unregistered


Hey I was asked where the post went via. PM I was only helping out. \:\)

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#291948 - 08/10/07 09:19 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: ]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
i think mink LOVE mink musk ... alot of times ill add skunk essence to my mink lure to further enhance the reaction to it .... punch in pockets and go heavy with the lure !!! i got so many PM's that i had to just let it all out ... i was holdin out on yall ...sorry \:\( .... Gary
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Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#291960 - 08/10/07 09:31 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: ]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
My question is probably a stupid one but I have been waiting for others to ask it and no one did. I am hearing all about this mink behavior and I am just wondering how people know. Stands to reason that often a person can assess a coyote's response to a set by the tracks if conditions allow. A light footed mink is a different story.

I can read sign and usually can see a mink track here and there. However, a water set can leave a lot to the imagination in many cases unless completely still water with a shallow silt bottom. Moving water there will just be no way to read the bottom of the creek. A little too deep and the mink's feet are not touching bottom. Rocky stream beds no way you are seeing tracks.

Soooo. I would go out on a limb here and say it is only with some very select circumstances that a person could be able to tell that a mink came by without getting caught. The "norm" would be poor to no tracking conditions. Snow and perfect mud would be the only sure fire way to see much at all. So how are we breaking down all these numbers and mink avoidances?

Then you have to factor in the thoughts and beliefs of the person viewing the behavior. Just cause a mink went by a set without getting caught, does not mean he avoided the smell of musk. Did he veer well out of his way? That could spell avoidance unless you track him far enough in the snow to see that he was after a rabbit or whatever. If he just walked by...it's about that simple, he just walked by. Why would we read anything into that about mink musk?

I would like to know how we are drawing the conclusion that mink avoid musked up mink sets on ANY occasion, other than just pure assumption on the trappers part.

Also the notion that some canines will avoid mink or weasel smells, well if you guys think that, then good luck to you cause you are missing a good attractor. If you believe that it deters any percentage of canines then you deserve to believe that and carry it onto your line with you. Skunk, badger, mink, weasels are all the same family and all highly attractive to canines. Use the Nelson forumla with mink glands, and then without mink glands and see the difference. Smell some Carmen's Canine Call and see if Russ Carman believes in mink musk.
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#291995 - 08/10/07 09:47 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: k9.]
ADC
Unregistered


k9. yopu bring up a good point, perhaps they are basing their feelings that mink avoid lure the same way I'm basing my feelings that they don't... but a few instances (that I already mentioned above) where I could see sign that the mink liked the lures.

Sad thing is with all the people jumping on the band wagon... I think folks that have used certain lures with some success are afraid to say so out of fear of bieng called wrong. That leaves me still wondering what good choice of lure would be for me to experiment with that I haven't already tried. I guess if no one steps up to say, I'll just smell a few at the ITA and take a shot at it. \:\(

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#292013 - 08/10/07 10:00 PM Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: ]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
I know I risk offending some people with that line of thinking, and was just going to let it lay until the post got brought back up.

Historically trappers have made assumptions and complicated very simple issues, keeping themselves from successfully using good methods or attractors. Something as simple as "coyote urine scares away fox" was beleived and quoted for years until people started questioning it. I know the majority on this forum do not believe that, but we have all heard it said. It came from a logical assumption that if coyotes kill fox, then foxes must avoid them at all costs. Just cause a human assumes it, does not make it true.

Another would be that coyotes are afraid of the smell of steel traps. Makes sense to a person who puts coyotes on an intellectual pedestal, and gives a trapper who is having trouble on his line a built in excuse for the problems he is having. Until you start digging holes and seeing how many buried peices of steel are in the ground, and you see where coyotes are going through steel fences and gates, or you have a snapped trap in a trail and the coyote steps right beside it. The assumption seems reasonable, but it's not.

The notion that any percentage of mink are deterred by the smell of musk is purely an assumption. The only real test of a mink attractor is dead mink in the truck, unless you have perfect snow tracking conditions. If you have those conditions, and are seeing mink approach set after set, veering away from the musked up set or turning back and going the other way, then you might have something.

Then, how many of us truly get around enough mink to draw such conclusions? I don't but my common sense is kicking in here. I am waiting for the 100+ mink per season guys to tell me that mink musk deters some mink, then I will still ask them how they are reading the sign.
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